The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by Mainer
I cannot say I share your belief in timing. Do you remember how you felt September 10th, how about September 12th?

Sure I do.
But we're talking about a civil war here.
What scenario can there possibly be where Americans are willing give up there very comfortable lives and to go to war with and kill other Americans just like that?
Again look at our history. We've been in much much much much more worse states than we are now and no civil war happened then, so why would it happen now? Especially since Americans are much more well off and would be much more unlikely to give up their lifestyles.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
But we're talking about a civil war here.
What scenario can there possibly be where Americans are willing give up there very comfortable lives and to go to war with and kill other Americans just like that?

I can only count of three times when America has been this polarized.

1.) During the Vietnam War which resulted in a myriad of civil right actions and upheavel.

2.) During the Civil War of America which resulted in...well, a Civil War.

3.) Modern day.

And I can only recall of one moment in American history in which the people have been truly united, The American revolution.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Again look at our history. We've been in much much much much more worse states than we are now and no civil war happened then

Remember, the civil war occured because of a division between America. In modern times this has manifested into Republcian/Democrat.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
so why would it happen now?

Because we have more to fight for and more to lose.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Especially since Americans are much more well off and would be much more unlikely to give up their lifestyles.

We are in the largest debt since the American depression.

More than half of America opposes the war.
More than half of America believes that we were duped in the war.
More than half of America believes Bush is not a suitable leader.

Places the pieces of the puzzle together. America is prime for either a civil war or a revolution.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
What scenario can there possibly be where Americans are willing give up there very comfortable lives and to go to war with and kill other Americans just like that?

I don't know, but I wouldnt say it is impossible. My Sept 11th statement is just to show how something so sudden and out of the blue can completely alter things in a moment.

Simulacra:

You mentioned the Republican/Democrat "divide".

Could Titor have meant the Federal/State Govt. "divide"?

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by jumpspace
Could Titor have meant the Federal/State Govt. "divide"?

Not sure but he did mention to pay attention to Americas voting maps in the 2004 election. Hence, Republican/Democrat.

Originally posted by Simulacra
I can only count of three times when America has been this polarized.

1.) During the Vietnam War which resulted in a myriad of civil right actions and upheavel.

Result:
No civil war

2.) During the Civil War of America which resulted in...well, a Civil War.

I was mainly talking about post civil war era....

3.) Modern day.

If by modern day you mean from 1870s-1960s then you are correct.

And I can only recall of one moment in American history in which the people have been truly united, The American revolution.

There's just too many people from too many cultures with too many beliefs for this country to be united all the time. But you will have times. Post 9/11 for example.

Remember, the civil war occured because of a division between America. In modern times this has manifested into Republcian/Democrat.

What???

There have been political parties since the begining of this nation. And it has never gotten to the point where we're willing to kill over someone's political beliefs. Republican and Democrat are just the dominate political parties now, that could change just as it has in the past.

Because we have more to fight for and more to lose.

Which is exactly why there won't be a fight.
Again, when we were worse off, we there was no war. Now that we are much better off, there will definately be no war. It's just not worth it. And it will accomplish nothing.

We are in the largest debt since the American depression.

But not Americans

More than half of America opposes the war.
More than half of America believes that we were duped in the war.
More than half of America believes Bush is not a suitable leader.

Places the pieces of the puzzle together. America is prime for either a civil war or a revolution.

If there was a civil war or revolution because of that, one would have started decades ago.
During 'Nam EVERYONE opposed the war.
And EVERY election, half the population hates the guy who won.

Not sure but he did mention to pay attention to Americas voting maps in the 2004 election. Hence, Republican/Democrat.

He only mentioned the maps when someone asked where the safest places to be are. And it was the 2000 election he was talking about (though it's basically the same this time around too)
He specifically stated that the war would not be Republican vs. Democrat. This has already been discussed in this thread.

I don't know, but I wouldnt say it is impossible. My Sept 11th statement is just to show how something so sudden and out of the blue can completely alter things in a moment.

That was an attack, we're talking about a 10 year Civil war here. That takes time to build up (years not months). You also have to have at least two sides fighting each other. There is no event or decision I can see being made in the near future that will push Americans to the point of willing to kill each other for the next 10 years.

For those of you looking for the 'Waco Type' events, ATS member tomgold compiled a small list of possible suspects.

Waco Type events as predicted by J.T.

Look at how United we were right after 9/11....4 years people...now look how divided we are

Pro life vs. Pro choice
Dem. Vs. Rep.
Secular Vs. Religous zellots
warmonger Vs. peace loving hippies [those who haven't been thrown into prison yet]
straight Vs. gay
haves Vs. have nots
anti gun Vs pro gun
tastes great Vs less filling


Things can change very quickly, and it only takes a handfull to make changes...example= 9/11

the United States of Jesus is gonna be a scary place to live...i see it coming, like a gathering supercell thunderstorm.....I think JT is right

Originally posted by Simulacra
For those of you looking for the 'Waco Type' events, ATS member tomgold compiled a small list of possible suspects.

Waco Type events as predicted by J.T.

no,no, and no


If I see ATF agents burning, killing, shooting, beating people, I'll admit its a waco type event. until then, its a reach in my book

those examples are like comparing 9/11 to the bombs at the british consulate today. just not the same

[edit on 5-5-2005 by syrinx high priest]

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Look at how United we were right after 9/11....4 years people...now look how divided we are

Pro life vs. Pro choice
Dem. Vs. Rep.
Secular Vs. Religous zellots
warmonger Vs. peace loving hippies [those who haven't been thrown into prison yet]
straight Vs. gay
haves Vs. have nots
anti gun Vs pro gun
tastes great Vs less filling

You're kidding right?

When have people ever been united on these issues??

In fact alot of the divisions of the past where there was a clear line is now getting blurred over. Like being gay is more acceptable now than it was say 10-15 years ago.

the United States of Jesus is gonna be a scary place to live...i see it coming, like a gathering supercell thunderstorm.....I think JT is right

....how original....

I hope your kidding though. If this country resembled or remotely followed the teachings of Jesus, it would be a much much much better place.





btw, the fact that Waco happened already pretty much assured us that Waco type events won't happen again.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

no,no, and no


If I see ATF agents burning, killing, shooting, beating people, I'll admit its a waco type event. until then, its a reach in my book

Will it also have to happen in Waco before you'll acknowledge it?

Titor lumped Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzales together when he talked about 'Waco type" events, so it seems to me he was talking about excessive use of force against the public, which you can find an example of weekly in ATSNN - everything from tasering errant customers at Chuck-E-Cheese to handcuffing 5 year olds for temper tantrums. You can probably even throw the torture allegations into the pot, since it's misuse of authority and a symptom of the same problem.

He also said it started happening in 2004/2005 but it wasn't until 2008 that nobody could deny what was happening anymore and it was clearly a civil war. To me that means a lot of us won't be able to see the forest for the trees, just like what's happening now with so many people refusing to believe anything's wrong.

If anything's going to happen it will be the people against the establishment, not political parties, and the split will most likely be widest between the cities and the country dwellers.

Can anybody honestly say there's nothing wrong when the US administration knowingly deceived the nation to launch an invasion on a country that was incapable of threatening us, gave an exclusive and unrestricted contract to a private company to manage every logistical aspect of the war, has subverted the Geneva Convention and other International Laws to engage in torture and other atrocities, stripped it's citizens of their constitutional rights, is attempting to dismantle the social security system, and NOBODY has taken ANY action against them?

What the hell is happening here? Where are the checks and balances and how come we're all being railroaded without even a whimper? Maybe the wackos are right and they really are building thousands of railcars fitted with shackles to ship us off to detention centers... Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

[edit on 5/5/2005 by mythatsabigprobe]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Will it also have to happen in Waco before you'll acknowledge it?

Titor lumped Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzales together when he talked about 'Waco type" events, so it seems to me he was talking about excessive use of force against the public

This has been discussed already. No Titor didn't.



You can blow all the other stuff out of proportion all you want, fact is the US in no worse off now as far as freedoms, and police practices than it was 40 years ago. In fact, it's better.

The make up of the US (politically, physically, culturally, etc.) and the mindset of Americans assures that there will never be another civil war again......barring some catastrophic event that wipes out most of the country leaving a power void.






(just to note: Titor mentions the US becoming a police state 0 times)

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Look at how United we were right after 9/11....4 years people...now look how divided we are

Pro life vs. Pro choice
Dem. Vs. Rep.
Secular Vs. Religous zellots
warmonger Vs. peace loving hippies [those who haven't been thrown into prison yet]
straight Vs. gay
haves Vs. have nots
anti gun Vs pro gun
tastes great Vs less filling


Things can change very quickly, and it only takes a handfull to make changes...example= 9/11

the United States of Jesus is gonna be a scary place to live...i see it coming, like a gathering supercell thunderstorm.....I think JT is right

So united in fact that Democrats are now being expelled from Baptist churches:

www.dailykos.com...

Time will tell won't it.

We will watch an see what will happens when the economy crashes, plus rising gas prices ect....the conditions are Very quickly becoming ripe for upheavel to start...in 95 If you would have asked me about possible civil war in america, I would have laughed it off.....but not now....

I never implied that we were united on the issues I listed...I just listed items where we are not united on.

thatjustwierd......I can give a F%&* whether you believe me or JT or not...You think we are better off than 40 years ago....I think your trippin, but as long as your government or your preacher tell you its so , then it must be true....40 years ago were we involved in 2 unwinnable wars?...war on drugs/war on terror, did we have open borders? did police handcuff 5 year olds for throwing tempertantrums? Did we have check points on our roads and hiways? did we have the right to remain silent?
The powers that be can obtain a warrent search your phone, home and library records and never inform you..............I garrantee this would not have happend 20 years ago much less that 40....and how can you garrentee that a waco style thing won't occur again..... you lost me there....that was were we started using pool reporting...so the government tells the reporters whats goin on....period....no other angle no other story........................and as for following the teaching of Jesus....religon is controling the minds of millions in this country, and it has Nothing to do with the Jesus or his teachings.

Oh and by the way these religons are telling there people that wwe are living in the end times......and i feel they are tryin to make this happen....so yes I see much war and other bad stuff in our future.

Our country is arresting people world wide detaining without legal representation, insome cases not allowing them to contact family, friends, with no trials....holding them indefinitly...............There is No Way this would have happened 40 years ago

its only a matter of time till this comes to a nieghborhood near you......

good luck

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Will it also have to happen in Waco before you'll acknowledge it?

Titor lumped Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzales together when he talked about 'Waco type" events, so it seems to me he was talking about excessive use of force against the public

This has been discussed already. No Titor didn't.

02/01/01 08:36 (predictions for the future) 258
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.

02/08/01 13:18 (predictions for the future) 308
I don�t remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You can blow all the other stuff out of proportion all you want, fact is the US in no worse off now as far as freedoms, and police practices than it was 40 years ago. In fact, it's better.

(just to note: Titor mentions the US becoming a police state 0 times)

02/05/01 11:28 (about the future) 276
From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the �cities� and the �country� was well defined.

"Can anybody honestly say there's nothing wrong when the US administration"


focus people !!!! thats not what the question is...its simply this....are we witnessing waco-elian-types of events monthly in the year 2005 ?????



NO !

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

And....we're almost halfway through 2005 with still no Waco events. Especially not one every month.
Also it doesn't say everyone will realize it's war by 2008 he's saying by that time, no one will see us every returning to our current lifestyle.

I don�t remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

Why thank you for proving my point. He's talking about the media coverage of those events compared to the media coverage of the civil war. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, go back in this thread, this has already been discussed.

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the �cities� and the �country� was well defined.

1. Here, the civil war was going on, meaning my comment still stands.
2. Also, this proves he was talking about a war between city and country. Can you honestly say there's a well defined difference between the cities and 'burbs or any division that will lead to us killing each other?


LDragonFire,
You must still be in early grade school or something and just haven't learned American history yet. So, I'm going to give you a few days to brush up on history so you can see for yourself how ridiculously incorrect and misinformed your post is.

[edit on 6-5-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

And....we're almost...

Also it doesn't say...

He's talking about...

Again, go back ...

Don't you think you're being a little too selective about quoting his words? You're allowed to read a whole paragraph at a time you know, give it a try and you'll see it opens up whole new worlds for you.

I'd like to see all of the ats posters invloved in this thread that live in the US declare if they are urban or county folk, (lets call suburbs country for now) and under what circumsatnces they would take arm against another american citizen. Lets get down to it, thats what a civil war is, right ?

I'm country. I would only take up arms to defend my house, if the city folk try to take it by force.

Yeah, Ok. I'm country and I'd like to kill me a few of them city folks for their high falootin ways an their fancy shoes.