The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by modese7en
We don't need you to paraphrase the article for us in your own words,
leaving out the parts that don't justify your ideas...............

i thought i did a good job of paraphrasing

even though the law states not to include a moving vehicle as a credible form of assault.
it is still considered assault. judicially they wouldnt have laws for it, if it were not.

i had nearly the same argument with my bro last night. and ill tell you what i told him. police work is hard(im very serious). its a job were you have to make fast decisions. now im not condoning thier actions, but givin the situation (the intensity and wrecklessness) i cant hate the officers ....sorry i just cant. and what this argument is about is not the officers its about the suspects. are they or are they not innocent and defenseless. their actions suggested thier guilt and their statment about a gun removed thier defenslessness.


here somthing to point out
Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly physical force is being used against the police officer or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle.

why would there law say they can shoot at a vehicles(givin the situation is right)then say means other than a moving vehicle.

deadly physical force is the key word here. does the law state even if a vehicle is the cuase for the deadly physical force it is not to be fired apon? it could be interpred that way yes.
it also could be interpreted as, an officer can not fire apon a vehicle that is moving and say it was utilising deadly physical force.

im looking through your link and nowhere do i see the men were driving wrecklessly becuase firearms were drawn on them. if you were a witness and seen this ocurr plz share your story, because it might help us com to an understanding.

if you are assuming the (unmarked)police officers drew thier firearms ....DONT.

its enough when you dont read your link thoroughly befor submitting, but adding assumption to the story screws everthing up.

Now that I established that they were indeed wrong, answer the question. Why are you defending Titor? I pray that you are never under suspicion of a crime, and are treated the same way as those men, and I sincerely hope you learn more about the rights you and every other American have in the U.S.

at one point i was wrong, thats with the stipulation of round fired by the five police officers. the rest of your post is hypothetical questions(proving nothing)

i know my rights, and unfortunately i have less rights than you do.
in my younger years i was a USMC , where as now if i strike a person regardless of the strength used its "assualt with a deadly weapon"(i was almost imprisoned for just that, but charges were dropped)

i defend titors story because his story has yet to pass. the main portion of titors prediction/claims starts in 2008 2012 2015 2036. this 2004 date is easily misunderstood. if you need me to explain , just ask(thats why me and you are communicating, we were trying to explain that very point 10-20 post ago)

[edit on 3-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are modern thriving cities nowadays. Where have you been when Japan's technological infrastructure grew to the nearest competitor of the United States?

Furthermore this proves that "life goes on" as usual, even after one or more nuclear attacks.

Are you kidding?
1. We poured millions into Japan to help rebuild. Rebuilding a nation like the US after a nuclear war would cost trillions. Who's going to pay that seeing as the rest of the world is also destroyed?

2. We're talking about a nuclear war here. Not one or two nukes.

(3. There even deaths up to about 1990 or so attributed to radiation poisoning in those cities. And those were small bombs! What do you think is going to happen in a nuclear war?)

You can't even come close to comparing the two situations.

So yes, I tell you it's all possible. And you know why? Because I have faith in America's capability. Especially in a post-nuclear world where oil has become scarce and the need to work together in order to invent more efficient technologies have never before become more important to insure the survival of humans. Where’s your faith thatsjustweird?

What are you talking about?
I never said America couldn't rebuild or pounce back. Of course it can. It'd come at a cost though with hyper inflation and an astronomical debt rendering paper money basically useless for years. After the war, the main focus would be trying to get the economy right. With half the population gone that means half the workforce is gone so this will be extremely rough. Every cent would have to count so doing useless stuff like trying to test and come up with time travel would only set the US back by years.

So many inventions we have that we take for granted are created by a necessity, which only increases during wartime. Once the scientists involved at CERN will do their discovery I don't think this exciting project will be cancelled during or after wartime. Throughout history, military technology has been the driving force of technological advancement. And if a war gets really bad, scientists and engineers will have to work overtime to make our technology, infrastructure and society as a whole better then before. That's what I call logic. And history is teaching us exactly that.

Two things (as history has shown us) with come from any war technology wise
1. Better weapons
2. Inventions that would try to help rebuild more quickly.

I can guarentee you no scientist in his right mind would waste time trying to come up with time travel when there are more pressing issues like getting the country back on track.
Also these scientists you mention are usually funded by the government. The US doesn't have a government remember? The people are taking over.

When after a nuclear attack in 2015 half the world will be wiped out, it also means that the other half (including scientists, engineers, politicians, military personnel) apparently survived.

lol
Yes and that half are just trying to find and enjoy the basics of life such as water. Who could possibly think of time travel at a time like that?


glyph:

and any ways whats to rebuild? corporate america? it should die, thats a good thing. all that is left is easily manageable communities.

Basic plumbing would be part of "corporate" america
So would electric plants
Water treatment plants
Trash collectors
Construction workers
etc.

So what would you do? Just leave everything destroyed and that's that?
"easily managable communities"?
lol, you don't have a clue how things work do you? Even small communities take a ton of work to keep together.

anarchy is an impossible outcome, because "HE who has the biggest gun, makes the rules". and not to mention anarchy does not support human rights(which is why a civil war is always started).

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you know what anarchy is? It's the absence of government.
Remember when we toppled the Iraq government, there was a period of time before any replacement government was in place where there was just anarchy (note, it doesn't always have to be violent).
We're talking about a civil war here where the people are trying to take over, as that happens the government certainly isn't in complete control and neither are the people. That is anarchy.

your time machine- first why do you assume its going to be so expensive? what if its very bacsic and cheap to achieve.

lol, this made me chuckle.
Ok let's start small. It costs to get groceries right? Right.
A little bigger. It costs to build a house right? Right.
Bigger still. It costs a ton to have an actual working space program right? Right.
What makes you think bending time and space would somehow be cheap and basic?

i dont know what kind of resources it needs to build a timemachine, but i know you havnt a clue either.

All this stuff has been posted in this thread already. Since you're not going to go back and read, I guess we'll just have to use Wiki

Though it doesn't say much:
en.wikipedia.org...

A time machine is a device for travelling through time. As far as is known by modern science, any time-travel device is purely fictional, although the special theory of relativity allows for time travel to be possible, but only in the future direction, by accelerating near the speed of light, which if technically possible would allow to reach the future faster because of time compression. There also exists an approximate solution to the general theory of relativity for a situation called the Tipler Cylinder that would appear to allow travel into the past.

en.wikipedia.org...

A Tipler Cylinder is a hypothetical object theorized to be a potential mode of time travel—an approach that is conceivably functional within humanity's current understanding of physics, construction of the device notwithstanding.

Frank J. Tipler suggested in 1974 that if a sufficiently long cylinder with the mass of several neutron stars was induced to spin along its longitudinal axis, the cylinder should create a frame-dragging effect and warp spacetime in its locality as the spin approached the speed of light.

Say, you wouldn't happen to have several neutron stars lying around would you?


special note:

A limitation of the Tipler Cylinder is that it is only possible to travel to times (and places) in which the cylinder already exists. Thus, one could not travel backwards further than the date that the cylinder was activated.

So that would mean Titor stating they go all over the place and to all these different dates is bunk

More stuff:
en.wikipedia.org...
lol @ basic and cheap

Just trying to test which theory actually works (if any) would probably cost way more than the space program. After a nuclear war on top of a 10 year civil war, that just wouldn't be fiscally responsible or sensible....

Flashing ID to buy a beer or board a plain has nothing to do with being "Chipped" with RFID.

Civil war in the US did not indeed happening 2005 or 2006 , not even close. Having this past year traveled to cities all across the US from Miami to Anchorage I have come across nothing but common concerns and general patriotism. The recent congressional vote was a clear example of patriotic action where individual citizens banded together to effect a political change for the better. Civil War is not characteristically a situation where individuals feel voting is usefu.l Generally it is where individuals feel totally disaffected from the political system and find the only way to make change is to take a more direct and violent action. I cannot honestly think of a rational political reason why one US citizen would wish to take up arms against his brother citizen given today's current state of affairs in the US never mind one group armed against another. Civil War is what we see in Iraq where two sectors of society are seeking to obliterate any hope of power for the other. They use violence, Americans chose to use the power of the Ballot. HUGE difference.

I guess no matter how much reality enters the picture, some will try and twist things around to support their beliefs even when faced with predictions that held no merit.

Sorry, but there was no civil war in 2005. Not even close. John Titor is a hoax.

why would there law say they can shoot at a vehicles(givin the situation is right)then say means other than a moving vehicle.

deadly physical force is the key word here. does the law state even if a vehicle is the cuase for the deadly physical force it is not to be fired apon? it could be interpred that way yes.
it also could be interpreted as, an officer can not fire apon a vehicle that is moving and say it was utilising deadly physical force.

Its simple, and instead of banging my head on the keyboard because you cant seem to grasp the idea, let me try to explain it.

The car cannot be the weapon that the police officers use to justify shooting the victims. Just because the victims hit the police van, does not make them guilty of anything requiring deadly force.

The victims had to have been armed, and threatening to use those arms against the police officers. They had no weapons, and were still shot at.

if you are assuming the (unmarked)police officers drew thier firearms ....DONT

I don't have to assume, its right there in the article.

Kelly said the undercover officer who fired the first round identified himself as a police officer.

Kind of hard to fire the first round unless you're sidearm is drawn, isn't it?

its enough when you dont read your link thoroughly befor submitting, but adding assumption to the story screws everthing up.

I don't think I was the one who didn't read the article.

TJW i dont want to start another argument with you but.....

titor says thats industry is dead and gone. that farming is the source of food. and he implies that everyone should know how to purify there own water. and he also states that in order to get water you have to address a man with a weapon. which to me means there is no plumbing on a grand scale. the only trash they would have would be used for compost in there farming, because non-biodegradible are no longer produced.

communities are not hard to manage, especially when everyone is pulling there own wieght(or as titor said "carries their own water"). remember- if ppl refused to help the community they were removed by force.

ok im goin to assume that in the future there will be more than 1-10 scientists that have survived the war. meaning there could be a great number of things that could be addressed , timetravel being one of them. and yes if a scientist spent his whole life dedicated to the research involved in timetravel, he would choose to let other scientists fix the economy while he builds his time machine.

LOLs you think im stupid for not knowing what it takes to build a time machine

Originally posted by modese7en
The victims had to have been armed, and threatening to use those arms against the police officers. They had no weapons, and were still shot at.

ill ask this once when did the police officers find there was no weapon?

dude no its not right there nowhere in the article it states the police officer showed their fire arms, (until they chose to open fire).
haha as if they were playin a scene out of some gang movie




[edit on 3-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

1. We poured millions into Japan to help rebuild. Rebuilding a nation like the US after a nuclear war would cost trillions. Who's going to pay that seeing as the rest of the world is also destroyed?

Would cost trillions? You seems to don't understand. In a post-nuclear-war world, there is no such thing as global economy for obvious reasons. People work to rebuild the country to survive and live like they did before, not for money! Money means nothing in times like these.

2. We're talking about a nuclear war here. Not one or two nukes.

Yeah nuclear war with X amounts of mini-nukes of 2 to 3 kTs. Low radiation but concentrated in cities and moving into the atmosphere around the planet but not much. And the nuclear winter is just a theory.

(3. There even deaths up to about 1990 or so attributed to radiation poisoning in those cities. And those were small bombs! What do you think is going to happen in a nuclear war?)

Why do you think? Because the nukes were detonnated at a certain distance in the air, spreading in a much more wide area and nothing aborbing the big radiation. As JT said, the nukes exploded close to the ground so EMP don't spread and a big part of the radiation is being absorbed by the ground.

After the war, the main focus would be trying to get the economy right. With half the population gone that means half the workforce is gone so this will be extremely rough. Every cent would have to count so doing useless stuff like trying to test and come up with time travel would only set the US back by years.

As I said earlier, the economy and money doesn't count in such a post-nuclear war world, it exist, but you can't imagine it, it would be very different and money wouldn't be the center of the universe.

An example: Was titor payed to fight his enemy? No.

2. Inventions that would try to help rebuild more quickly.

Time travel just does that as JT explained.

I can guarentee you no scientist in his right mind would waste time trying to come up with time travel when there are more pressing issues like getting the country back on track.

Back on track? It's not the scientist task, it's the government, people and army task.

Also these scientists you mention are usually funded by the government. The US doesn't have a government remember? The people are taking over.

They don't need money if it's for surviving, it's not like money is an energy. To some people now, maybe, but to almost everybody after a nuclear war, I don't think so.

Yes and that half are just trying to find and enjoy the basics of life such as water. Who could possibly think of time travel at a time like that?

Scientists in a bunkered military base with plenty of food and water? And they probably do that to save more life after than saving few now. You know, sacrifying 100 to save 10.000.

Basic plumbing would be part of "corporate" america
So would electric plants
Water treatment plants
Trash collectors
Construction workers
etc.

So what would you do? Just leave everything destroyed and that's that?
"easily managable communities"?
lol, you don't have a clue how things work do you? Even small communities take a ton of work to keep together.

It's only a part of the corporate america if the corporate exist or you give credit to them.

lol, this made me chuckle.
Ok let's start small. It costs to get groceries right? Right.
A little bigger. It costs to build a house right? Right.
Bigger still. It costs a ton to have an actual working space program right? Right.
What makes you think bending time and space would somehow be cheap and basic?

Money doesn't make sense in a post-nuclear war world.

Say, you wouldn't happen to have several neutron stars lying around would you?

A neutron star is lighter than a black hole, so if they create a mini-black hole like JT described, it's possible.

So that would mean Titor stating they go all over the place and to all these different dates is bunk

This is what Hawking also think but JT said Hawking was wrong about this, so Tipler would be wrong about this also. You know, theory isn't always perfect.

Terapin: Yes the american people voted against the Bush administration, but for nothing. People will realise soon enough that democrats are as traitors as the Bush adaministration. That they are from the same bunch of corporate puppets.

[edit on 3-12-2006 by Vitchilo]

The rules of ATS, and this thread in particular, REQUIRE that you Stay On Topic which is John Titors prediction or rather discussion about the American Civil War of 2005.(if you doubt that then look at the top of the page where it clearly sais, "Stay on topic")

No such event happened. There never was a Civil War in the US in 2005. Any discussion about other aspects of John Titors babbeling doesnt belong in this thread.

Fact: The US did not undergo a Civil War in 2005 Proof that Titor is a hoax.

If you wish to discuss quantum mechanics, WWII, String theory, or john Titors haircut then you should be doing that somewhere else.

Originally posted by Terapin
The rules of ATS, and this thread in particular, REQUIRE that you Stay On Topic which is John Titors prediction or rather discussion about the American Civil War of 2005.(if you doubt that then look at the top of the page where it clearly sais, "Stay on topic")

No such event happened. There never was a Civil War in the US in 2005. Any discussion about other aspects of John Titors babbeling doesnt belong in this thread.

Fact: The US did not undergo a Civil War in 2005 Proof that Titor is a hoax.

fortunately all this is *sort of* on topic. ppl wanted proof this is what we came up with(and then debate followed).

you say its a fact that no civil conflict did/has happened. i say prove it, show me that all is well and no problems are occurring. if somthing is happening in one city, one county, one state then your fact is rubbish.

why o why

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over

suppose you are the one(many others) to realize your view of the world is false?

im not sayin your wrong nor am i saying im right. what i am sayin is WE are in no place to make these calls. if titor is real he has 1 thing we dont hindsight.

technically this issue is mooked, weve shown that its very possible to..
misplaced dates
claim minor waco events are occurring
claim rights being takin away
claim the economy is collasping
illustrate that should a civil war start it would be gradual//under ppls radar//

youve shown not much other than....
becuase you never heard/seen anything, it never happened
was there somthing else?i pretty sure thats all the anti-titorites position


[edit on 3-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Would cost trillions? You seems to don't understand. In a post-nuclear-war world, there is no such thing as global economy for obvious reasons. People work to rebuild the country to survive and live like they did before, not for money! Money means nothing in times like these.

?
I didn't say people would rebuild for money. I said it would cost money.
Whatshisface was comparing WW2 to now. And I was saying it's two completely different things.
The reason why Nagasaki and Hiroshima are thriving cities now is because tons of money were poured into that city to rebuild it.

You won't have that after a nuclear war here, because there would be no one to pour billions of dollars into rebuilding.
People would rebuild only the basics.

Yeah nuclear war with X amounts of mini-nukes of 2 to 3 kTs. Low radiation but concentrated in cities and moving into the atmosphere around the planet but not much. And the nuclear winter is just a theory.

lol, so it time travel
And who said there were only mini nukes used??

Why do you think? Because the nukes were detonnated at a certain distance in the air, spreading in a much more wide area and nothing aborbing the big radiation. As JT said, the nukes exploded close to the ground so EMP don't spread and a big part of the radiation is being absorbed by the ground.

Reality is we have no idea how things would react with that many nukes going off.

Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes

Three war heads per city. Small or not, that's alot....

and obviously EMP wasn't totally confined to the cities

Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around.

Note, no reliable technology yet somehow they're able to bend the laws of physics and time travel

As I said earlier, the economy and money doesn't count in such a post-nuclear war world, it exist, but you can't imagine it, it would be very different and money wouldn't be the center of the universe.

I never said it would be the center of the universe. Nevertheless, to get the country and government functional again, it's going to be necessary. Esepcially when the country starts to grow again.
Why do you think we have and use money now?

An example: Was titor payed to fight his enemy? No.

I've been looking for this and I can't find it. Where'd you get that from?
Even if he wasn't payed, there was 10 years of fighting. How did they last that long? Well someone had to pay someone for guns, weapons, ammo, etc.

Look at the terrorists we're fighting. Why do you think we try to freeze their bank assets?

Time travel just does that as JT explained.

lol, no he didn't...

Back on track? It's not the scientist task, it's the government, people and army task.

What?
Those scientist come up with inventions to help the government, people, and army.

They don't need money if it's for surviving, it's not like money is an energy. To some people now, maybe, but to almost everybody after a nuclear war, I don't think so.

No, they need water and food and clean air for surviving.
If you're a scientist what would you do?
Waste your time trying to test a theory that would be of absolutely no help at all. Or try to find some way to clean the air, clean the water, find clean food?

Scientists in a bunkered military base with plenty of food and water? And they probably do that to save more life after than saving few now. You know, sacrifying 100 to save 10.000.

1. Titor stated cities and military bases were targeted
2. ?
How exactly is time travel saving lives? Titor never stated that it did.
Also, changing the past would just create a new timeline right? Your original timeline would still be screwed up.

Money doesn't make sense in a post-nuclear war world.

Neither does time travel. That's my point.
Again, why would you waste time, energy, and resources on something that may or may not exsist when the world is in shambles?

A neutron star is lighter than a black hole, so if they create a mini-black hole like JT described, it's possible.

lol

This is what Hawking also think but JT said Hawking was wrong about this

Ohhh JT says it so it must be true!
lol
I'll take science over fiction, thanks.


Glyph:

remember- if ppl refused to help the community they were removed by force.

So the question comes up again. Do you really think Titor was one of the good guys.
Is that the kind of world you would want to live in?
Do as I say or be killed.
What kind of life is that?


X:

Yes, they don't sit around like sheep and watch their Constitution being trashed. They don't willfully eat poisoned food or buy manufactured products that no one needs.

No, they don't sit around....
They go around killing everyone and you're right, they don't eat that stuff and buy those things. That's because there's nothing left to eat or buy. They destroyed it all!

Apparently by some of your posts, you have no problem allowing tyranny completely destroy America from within. You refuse too see past the federal camouflage.

lol, ok you're going to have to please show me these posts I supposedly wrote.
How is not agreeing with someone claiming to be a time traveller somehow equal to allowing people to destroy America?? That makes no sense at all.

You won't have that after a nuclear war here, because there would be no one to pour billions of dollars into rebuilding.
People would rebuild only the basics.

That's why there's only small communities.

lol, so it time travel
And who said there were only mini nukes used??

Because it's the nuclear type of attack of every nuclear country because it's much more harder to stop those nukes and it spread to a much more wide area. And it's much easier to shoot 10 3Kts than 1 30Kts. It's much more harder for any missile shield.

Reality is we have no idea how things would react with that many nukes going off.

There's simulations, and it is proven that when the US simulated their bunker buster mini-nukes, the ground kept a lot of the radiation.

Three war heads per city. Small or not, that's alot....

3 war heads is not that much, it's because they needed to spread to a wide area.

and obviously EMP wasn't totally confined to the cities
External Source

Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around.

Note, no reliable technology yet somehow they're able to bend the laws of physics and time travel

First, the EMP wouldn't spread that far from the cities. Second, they don't do time travel stuff in the open, they probably do it in bunker EMP protected...Hell the military are not stupid, they can protect a lot of things from EMP...

For the whole money thing, it's not comparable, now we can live normally and trade because we have plenty of food, water and stuff. But when the food is lacking, people don't give a hell about money and they keep the most they have.

I've been looking for this and I can't find it. Where'd you get that from?
Even if he wasn't payed, there was 10 years of fighting. How did they last that long? Well someone had to pay someone for guns, weapons, ammo, etc.

Look at the terrorists we're fighting. Why do you think we try to freeze their bank assets?

People support. I don't think JT was paid, aside of course from the food, guns and ammo supplied by some cover partisan of the resistance, like in any resistance, civil war against the government, like in Iraq.

lol, no he didn't...

He didn't said what? That they used time travel to rebuild their world? Yes he did.

JT: Why is time travel used?
Right now, its used to get information or "items" that would be helpful in getting a post WWIII world back to a normal condition. There are 7 other time travelers in my unit.

What?
Those scientist come up with inventions to help the government, people, and army.

Yeah as you said, scientists come up with inventions to help the government, the people and the army.
Government: Bring back money from others worldline, others things.
Military: Kind of a weapon.
People: Fun of the thing, rebuild.

No, they need water and food and clean air for surviving.
If you're a scientist what would you do?
Waste your time trying to test a theory that would be of absolutely no help at all. Or try to find some way to clean the air, clean the water, find clean food?

If they already have all the basics, why not? And by 2015, the time travel wouldn't be a theory anymore, anyway, the human always wanted to time travel.

1. Titor stated cities and military bases were targeted
2. ?
How exactly is time travel saving lives? Titor never stated that it did.
Also, changing the past would just create a new timeline right? Your original timeline would still be screwed up.

Bring back informations from others timeline to save your worldline. And it's doesn't matter if he change the past, and he didn't wanted to change the past.

Neither does time travel. That's my point.
Again, why would you waste time, energy, and resources on something that may or may not exsist when the world is in shambles?

I think they decided to pursue that because they made breaktrought in it and they could see advantages from it, aside from information and technologies, I don't think of any other advantages...

lol

Look it up, a neutron star is lighter than a black hole.

Ohhh JT says it so it must be true!
lol
I'll take science over fiction, thanks.

Hell, we're talking about JT, but you know for a fact that fiction become science someday.

So the question comes up again. Do you really think Titor was one of the good guys.
Is that the kind of world you would want to live in?
Do as I say or be killed.
What kind of life is that?

This is not what he said, he said pull your own weight. This mean work. If you don't work and clean yourself by your own, your screw, as in a job if you don't work you're fired.

[edit on 3-12-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Terapin
No such event happened. There never was a Civil War in the US in 2005. Any discussion about other aspects of John Titors babbeling doesnt belong in this thread.

If you wish to discuss quantum mechanics, WWII, String theory, or john Titors haircut then you should be doing that somewhere else.

There is nothing wrong with John Titor "babbling" in this thread. I don't know how long you been around this site....so to bring you up to date.... around 2005 or 06, ATS Mods asked members to stop posting Titor topics, and to keep the discussion of Titor in the existing Titor threads. Although I have no clue if it's still in effect, but I assume it still is until they say otherwise......Instead of acting like a Mod, why don't you ask or complain to them.... Your not adding nothing new.


Too understand Titor babble, how it relates to "The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor"

How is our worldline different from this yours?
John Titor:
For starters, the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other teams, things like that.

I would guess the temporal divergence between this worldline and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.

As you can see, Titor notice events that happen at different times in our worldline from his. You could assume that an American Civil War may be brewing at this moment due to certain events in our news.

or

Civil War may very well be happening...now.... later.... never to happen.... or may be observed from the future to have started in 2004 - 2005.

It now becomes a divergence in opinion on how you view it, right? Only time will tell.

John Titor:
I'm not aware of any predictions I made or perhaps we do not agree on the definition.

Titor did not make any predictions or predict a American Civil War of 2005 in our worldline.

In addition when Titor quotes "prediction" it means to what you call a prediction, he's merely talking about his worldline nothing more. If you read about John Titor, his definition becomes very clear.

John Titor:
I am here for personal reasons. For a few months now, I have been trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005.

John Titor is giving a alert of civil war, a mere possibility of it happening in 2005. It's not a prediction and it certainly doesn't mean civil war start's in 2005.

Remember, Titor notice events happen at different times. As depicted by; "John Titor" divergence becomes larger as time goes by. Again due to divergence, we now can assume or not assume an American Civil War may be brewing.

Only time will tell the fact, not you. Titor describes the civil war on his worldline as a conflict that will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII. He seems to describe it slowly escalating. It's only a matter of time for you to find out in this worldline.

What event started the war? Can it be stopped?
John Titor:
The war is a result of faulty politics and desperation from Western leadership during the US civil war. Yes, I suppose you could stop it.

The future may even reflect 2004 or 2005 as the beginning of the civil war attributable to faulty politics..........

At this present time, civil war could be sprouting right under your nose. It certainly wouldn't look like third world civil war in Iraq.

anyway enough of my rambling.... it seems almost pointless to warn the sheep.

Originally posted by Terapin
Fact: The US did not undergo a Civil War in 2005 Proof that Titor is a hoax.

Again, Your not telling me nothing new. Another Titor is a hoax poster Why can't you guys come up with something better to say lol......... At least TJW tries lol.





[edit on 4-12-2006 by XPhiles]

i must say TJW you are starting to come around.

You won't have that after a nuclear war here, because there would be no one to pour billions of dollars into rebuilding.
People would rebuild only the basics.

true, only the essentials would be priority.

Even if he wasn't payed, there was 10 years of fighting. How did they last that long? Well someone had to pay someone for guns, weapons, ammo, etc.

titor says

Q:Should we be stockpiling guns?
John:The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative attention to yourself. I recommend becoming familiar with firearms. This means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need them.

who does the suppling ?but tactically it is better to have poor starving ppl fightin, compared to having healthy ppl without a care in the world.

"a starving man is a dangerous man"titor
EDIT: what i meant by that was it wouldnt be that costly

So the question comes up again. Do you really think Titor was one of the good guys.
Is that the kind of world you would want to live in?
Do as I say or be killed.
What kind of life is that?

i addressed this acouple posts back but, to be honest i dont know if titor is a good guy. he says he supports human rights/and no i dont want to live in a world with corporal punishment. if i were to survive the wars, i just might be shot by some red neck that thinks i work for him.

i dont want the wars to happen at all. i like water, if its contaminated thats gonna piss me off.

heres my plan if the civil war comes and ww3 comes its survival mode, if any1 tries to take from me, after i live through that hell, may god protect them because i will not.

i picture the outcome much like MADmax or Fist of the North Star(thats the extreme). if it does come to that im not takin sh*t from no one. "corporal punishment" bah i laugh at the fool who tries to enforce that. and if its titor who tries to do that hes a dead man.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

The world is not a perfect place and of course there are things that we would like to change. No one likes it when their lives are controlled by corporations and fat cats, No one likes political corruption. No one like it when police get out of hand. That doesn't mean the US is in the midst of a Civil War. Not even close.

I travel often, both within the US and overseas, and have seen first hand what a civil war means. Have any of you seen a civil war FIRST HAND? I understand social unrest and political frustration. It is absurd to even hint that the US is undergoing a civil war. The FACT that a vote for change just happened is clear proof. The people were unhappy with the direction Bush and his cronies were taking the country and they acted on it. That does not happen during a civil war nor as a precursor to war. Civil war results when people have no political choices. Unlike many here I have traveled to, and lived in, several countries. I am not limited to speaking only one language. Unlike many in here I have a world view from personal experience. Some people watch CNN and think that they do as well. They are mistaken.

You said that you didn't know how long I have been around ATS which is odd because everyone's date of initial membership is posted below their avatars. I guess that demonstrates your level of rational observation. I have read a good deal of the various John Titor threads and find them amusing, mostly for the sheer lack of credibility that many posters demonstrate. Some people want to believe so desperately that they will stick to their guns and even change their story when things don't go the way they had imagined. Even looking at the early comments in this Thread, and going through them chronologically, you can see where some individuals totally changed their story just to fit reality, yet still are in denial. The Waco style events never occurred, The Civil War never happened, the list goes on. Yet there continues to be those who change their point of reference just so that they can continue to support the magical tale of John Titor.

The official topic of this thread is John Titors claim of Civil war in 2005. It never happened. It also didn't happen in 2006. While the world is not all sunshine and fuzzy bunnies I don't see how anyone could even suggest that the US is on the verge of civil war. Anyone who has actualy witnessed first hand what a civil war is would clearly understand that. Societies from time to time go through periods of social unrest and political change. No one is claiming that every citizen in the US is delighted with every aspect of life. Certainly many things could be better, but I don't know of any society were everything is perfect. Do you?

So, holding onto the claim that the US is undergoing or on the verge of civil war holds no water. Since that is the official topic of this thread then there it should end. Any talk about other aspects of Titors claims belong in another thread, not here.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are modern thriving cities nowadays. Where have you been when Japan's technological infrastructure grew to the nearest competitor of the United States?

Furthermore this proves that "life goes on" as usual, even after one or more nuclear attacks.

Are you kidding?

No. Life always goes on as usual and is usually build up and improved fast if all knowledge is still there and intact. Nuclear attacks on major cities will not prevent or change that.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. We poured millions into Japan to help rebuild. Rebuilding a nation like the US after a nuclear war would cost trillions. Who's going to pay that seeing as the rest of the world is also destroyed?

JT: “Nuclear war will be very effective at destroying an enemy’s economy and the people's will to fight.”

The best time to start something new is after a war, because everyone will be motivated to rebuild their lives. In a post-nuclear world life apparently will be centred around the community. In other words, decentralized. Autonomic units in communication with eachother. With a destroyed economy but motivated people. How do you start without money? You start to exchange ofcourse. Ideas, information, goods and services. And from thereon you simply proceed to build.

Was Titor’s America in 2036 a completely rebuild Utopia? Ofcourse not and Titor never said it was. Actually they were still rebuilding America and that includes its infrastructure. Let’s see from Titor’s quotes how life was in 2036:
”Life is centered on the family and then the community. I cannot imagine living even a few hundred miles away from my parents. There is no large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational items. Food and livestock is grown and sold locally.”

“We were expected to produce a certain amount for the community and a certain amount for other communities as agreed to by our CLC. In exchange, we received power, water, a certain amount of food and other necessities that were produced inside our community.”

”Yes, biological warfare and accidents do cause a great deal of problems but the lack of a working infrastructure also hinders the continuation of the food manufacturing you depend on now.”

”Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized. Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems.”

”One of the biggest reasons why food production is localized is because the environment is affected with disease and radiation. We are making huge strides in getting it cleaned up. Water is produced on a community level and we do eat meat that we raise ourselves.”

”Keep in mind that not all humans were destroyed but we were all affected. There is an effort going into colonizing space because it is believed that the problems of overpopulation were a large cause of the war. Personally, my generation sees itself as having a duty to try and repair the mess our fathers handed to us.

”When we were young, most of us had a small taste of the world you live in now and our only dream is to clean it up and give it back to those still able to have children.”

“We're not on the moon yet either. A great deal of technical effort is going into cleaning the planet up. The average lifespan is about 60 but I expect that will improve as we get things cleaned up.”

“Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around. Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes and exploded close to the ground. The heavy EMP damage was isolated to those areas.”

”I am hopeful that one day when we get the planet cleaned up it will be a nice place to live on again and no one will want to leave it.

”Nuclear war is a very undesirable thing but it is not the end of the world. There are areas and cities we can't enter and the environment did suffer a great deal of damage but we are recovering. Isn't Hiroshima a thriving city today? The major physical affects include skin cancer, infertility, infection, etc. Almost everyone has some sort of physical remnant from the war.”

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. We're talking about a nuclear war here. Not one or two nukes.

That’s right. And one is still left with the aftermath in 2036.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
(3. There even deaths up to about 1990 or so attributed to radiation poisoning in those cities. And those were small bombs! What do you think is going to happen in a nuclear war?)

You can't even come close to comparing the two situations.

As Titor’s quotes above explain, life indeed will still be very tough in 2036.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
So yes, I tell you it's all possible. And you know why? Because I have faith in America's capability. Especially in a post-nuclear world where oil has become scarce and the need to work together in order to invent more efficient technologies have never before become more important to insure the survival of humans. Where’s your faith thatsjustweird?

What are you talking about?
I never said America couldn't rebuild or pounce back. Of course it can. It'd come at a cost though with hyper inflation and an astronomical debt rendering paper money basically useless for years. After the war, the main focus would be trying to get the economy right. With half the population gone that means half the workforce is gone so this will be extremely rough. Every cent would have to count so doing useless stuff like trying to test and come up with time travel would only set the US back by years.

Nobody said it would be easy. But honestly, you don’t really believe they will ever allow such an exciting scientific “time travel” project to be closed if they are so close to realizing it, do you? A little pause perhaps…. but stopping it…. Not a cat in hell’s chance….

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
So many inventions we have that we take for granted are created by a necessity, which only increases during wartime. Once the scientists involved at CERN will do their discovery I don't think this exciting project will be cancelled during or after wartime. Throughout history, military technology has been the driving force of technological advancement. And if a war gets really bad, scientists and engineers will have to work overtime to make our technology, infrastructure and society as a whole better then before. That's what I call logic. And history is teaching us exactly that.

Two things (as history has shown us) with come from any war technology wise
1. Better weapons
2. Inventions that would try to help rebuild more quickly.

I can guarentee you no scientist in his right mind would waste time trying to come up with time travel when there are more pressing issues like getting the country back on track.
Also these scientists you mention are usually funded by the government. The US doesn't have a government remember? The people are taking over.

The US doesn’t have a Government? JT: “After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had.”

Furthermore, countless advancements in our society are based on war technology. Think transportation, communication and ofcourse (bio/medical) experimentation…..

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
When after a nuclear attack in 2015 half the world will be wiped out, it also means that the other half (including scientists, engineers, politicians, military personnel) apparently survived.

lol
Yes and that half are just trying to find and enjoy the basics of life such as water. Who could possibly think of time travel at a time like that?

You make it sound as if the whole world was working on “time travel.” Not so many scientists, workman and engineers were involved with Nikola Tesla’s inventions….

Originally posted by Terapin
It is absurd to even hint that the US is undergoing a civil war. The FACT that a vote for change just happened is clear proof. The people were unhappy with the direction Bush and his cronies were taking the country and they acted on it. That does not happen during a civil war nor as a precursor to war. Civil war results when people have no political choices.

Not true. Lincoln was elected President in 1860 and re-elected in 1864 wasn’t he?

Originally posted by Terapin
The Waco style events never occurred

Waco style events? No. Waco type events? Yes. Waco-type events mean events that can be categorized as typical of what happened in Waco: US law enforcement against US civilians and their civil rights. Unnecessary cruel deaths that should have been avoided. Officers of the law cleared without prosecution. Disinformation to the media.

The event recently posted by XPhiles qualifies as a "Waco-type event." The NYPD shootings in Queens qualify as a “Waco type event.” Taser deaths qualify as well. It depends how you look at it.

Originally posted by Terapin
So, holding onto the claim that the US is undergoing or on the verge of civil war holds no water. Since that is the official topic of this thread then there it should end. Any talk about other aspects of Titors claims belong in another thread, not here.

My viewpoint differs from yours. Though I wouldn’t make such an arrogant move as dictating you which views you may or may not share with me here. That’s the great thing about this thread don’t you agree? We can only speculate as to what will make us realize the initial start of the second US civil war could be traced back to 2004 or 2005, but I guess the start of the second Bush (“leader”) term and things steadily getting worse from that moment on, will explain a lot….

Originally posted by Terapin
Flashing ID to buy a beer or board a plain has nothing to do with being "Chipped" with RFID.

Civil war in the US did not indeed happening 2005 or 2006 , not even close. Having this past year traveled to cities all across the US from Miami to Anchorage I have come across nothing but common concerns and general patriotism. The recent congressional vote was a clear example of patriotic action where individual citizens banded together to effect a political change for the better. Civil War is not characteristically a situation where individuals feel voting is usefu.l Generally it is where individuals feel totally disaffected from the political system and find the only way to make change is to take a more direct and violent action. I cannot honestly think of a rational political reason why one US citizen would wish to take up arms against his brother citizen given today's current state of affairs in the US never mind one group armed against another. Civil War is what we see in Iraq where two sectors of society are seeking to obliterate any hope of power for the other. They use violence, Americans chose to use the power of the Ballot. HUGE difference.

I guess no matter how much reality enters the picture, some will try and twist things around to support their beliefs even when faced with predictions that held no merit.

Sorry, but there was no civil war in 2005. Not even close. John Titor is a hoax.

You have voted Terapin for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

but what if the evil media is keeping it away from us, or titor just got the dates wrong, or aren't tasers civil war ? what if titor meant Iraq ??

terapin, the "believers" won't even examine the science objectively, they just attack the messenger or refuse to answer basic questions on gravity and light. I've shown them 2 real scientitst that have gone on record as saying titor is a hoax, the "laser beam in the cigar light" picture is simply indefensible, and we're up to the 35th month without a waco type event that was covered in the media like waco or elian gonzalez, and yet they still believe

2 each his own I guess, but don't waste time here trying to show them the light.
All that's left in this thread is a few stubborn hardcore disciples.

So what will you say when 2008 rolls around and still no civil war? Will we have to wait till 2015 before you finally agree that it just doesn't hold water or will you simply state that the time lines have changed and John Titor was still correct and not a hoax? I'm just curious where you draw the line.

As for the shooting in Queens being a Waco type event... I think you are grasping at straws. There has always been police corruption, cover-ups and unnecessary death. This has been the history of police since time immemorial. It is nothing new nor special. Waco was something quite different all together. It seems like you are trying to adapt whatever event you can to fit into your scenario and support your beliefs. It is very easy to do.

There was more civil unrest during the Vietnam war than there is now yet you claim that we are on the verge of Civil war. Kent State was far more like Waco than some guy in Queens getting shot.

Have you ever been in the midst of a civil war? It is ugly and very clear when it is happening. It is not something that you forget. Long before the war between the North and South, there was serious political talk about succession by major leaders. Do you see that now? Before that war there was considerable buildup. As I said I have traveled all over the US. This past year I have been everywhere from Miami to Anchorage and talked to people from all walks of life and no where did I see anyone preparing or seriously discussing civil war. No where have I heard any major political figure suggesting the taking up of arms against fellow citizens. I have been in Europe and Latin America recently as well, and am not limited to speaking only English. No one in Europe seriously thinks the US is in the midst of, nor headed towards, Civil war and the same can be said for the Latino Americans. How much world traveling have you done? Or is surfing the net and watching TV news your world view. I'm just curious.

You can claim that well… OK ... so the war didn't actually START in 2005 but the reasons for the war did. But again that doesn't hold water. Titor spoke of 2005. No one claims that the US civil war actually started with the first slave imported from Africa, or the first northerner to speak out against slavery. Compare that to the recent civil wars in Europe or Africa and you can see the truth to that. They had very definite beginnings. I guess Titor would say that the Serbo-Croatian war in former Yugoslavia actually started before W.W.II then, since the two sides have historically never gotten along. Again that's a cop out. Titor is supposedly alive today, or soon, as a child if I remember correctly. I remember Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, etc., and the many significant events of their administrations both good and bad. If I was looking back I would never say that the current War in Iraq started when the Shah fell. That would be like saying that the Titor civil war started when Hillary was elected to office. Again, absurd. Why was Titor so off base with 2005? He said there was about a 1 or 2% drift but the beginnings of wars, particularly such a significant war is not something that you would tend to get incorrect. Error by a month or two, perhaps. Off by two whole years.... Uh huh.

So tell me, when 2008, or 9, or 10 rolls around and still no civil war, will you admit that you were duped into believing a trickster? Will you?

lol
In the effort of defending a fictional character, these guys have completely abandoned logical thinking.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
No. Life always goes on as usual and is usually build up and improved fast if all knowledge is still there and intact.

What are you basing this on?
There has never been a nuclear war or any war for that matter that has wiped out half the world's population.

The best time to start something new is after a war, because everyone will be motivated to rebuild their lives.

lol
This isn't just some war. This is a war that has completely changed the face of the earth.

In a post-nuclear world life apparently will be centred around the community. In other words, decentralized.

lol, life would be centered of finding water, air, and food.

With a destroyed economy but motivated people.

Who says they'd be motivated?
With half the population gone and with the death rate and life expectancy that would follow a war like that that would mean there's a extremely good chance that someone extremely close to you is dead and or dying. Suicides would skyrocket.

The fact that other WMDs such as bio weapons were used only further complicates life.

As Titor’s quotes above explain, life indeed will still be very tough in 2036.

I never said it wouldn't be.
Those quotes also show anyone wasting their time trying to test a theory is mentally insane.

Nobody said it would be easy. But honestly, you don’t really believe they will ever allow such an exciting scientific “time travel” project to be closed if they are so close to realizing it, do you? A little pause perhaps…. but stopping it…. Not a cat in hell’s chance….

Who's they? The government?
lol, Titor's people allowed the government to be completely destroyed remember.
Who said they were close?

The US doesn’t have a Government? JT: “After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had.”

What? We're talking about before, during, and after the war. The government that would have to start a project like this is the one in place now, that Titor allowed to be destroyed...

You make it sound as if the whole world was working on “time travel.” Not so many scientists, workman and engineers were involved with Nikola Tesla’s inventions….

Do you know how many people worked to get the space program up and running and how long that took?
Well bending time and space is 100000x more complicated. What makes you think time travel would take less of an effort....