The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Really, check this out! www.geocities.com...

Such an apocalyptical ride.

More info at the end of that website.

This has nothing to do with John Titor. It's a promotional spot for a Comic Book. Why did you put this up here?

Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
"Titor mentioned that it would be a "war" of "majorities against minorities"... and that “it doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression"... "

still, will you take up arms and kill americans over this, this year ? (if you are an american) Thats what a civil war is, right ? american vs american in deadly combat. not protests. not upheaval. not riots. not looting.

organized, deadly combat.

I just can't see it based on this scenario.....maybe I'm naive......

Titor did not mention that the "civil conflicts" would be a matter of American citizens killing eachother. It would be a "war" of "minorities" against Governmental Policies and safety measures eroding the US Constitution and restricting people's rights.

Starting in 2005 those conflicts could initially be recognized in the sense of a monthly event wherein "Waco type" methods are being used by the authorities and are steadily growing worse into a "civil war" where confronting organized groups opposing these methods "engage in maneuver and armed conflict" somewhere around 2008 and there after.

so if there is no civil war in 2005, why did you name this thread "the american civil war of 2005 as predicted by John Titor"

and not

"monthly waco type events in 2005 gradually leading to a civli war in 2008"

???


waco was very serious, people were burned to death. So far so good in 2005....when do the monthly events begin ?

El Dorado, Texas may be the next one. The government is "cracking down" on illegal polygamy. It seems a group of Mormons has moved to Texas to wait out what their "leader" thinks is the end of the world....

Me thinks the scenario may play itself out again...

I will attempt to find the thread I originally found this info on...

Warren Jeffs is his name...it's on BTS...

[edit on 14-4-2005 by BadMojo]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so if there is no civil war in 2005, why did you name this thread "the american civil war of 2005 as predicted by John Titor"

and not

"monthly waco type events in 2005 gradually leading to a civli war in 2008"

???


waco was very serious, people were burned to death. So far so good in 2005....when do the monthly events begin ?

They were supposed to begin last year.

JT:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
They were supposed to begin last year.

JT:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

John Titor claimed that this was a typo and that the wars were supposed to begin in 2005. We all know this.

Warren Jeffs is his name...it's on BTS...

Yes, there's some good detail on this guy here: www.belowtopsecret.com...

...This could become another Waco, but it would be very different than Waco. The Branch Davidians are a little smaller/powerful than the LDS. To have one of their offshoots go seriously wrong like this is could be much worse than Waco. The guy's a racist loon.

Even if this Warren Jeffs issue becomes Waco Part Deux, that would be just good predictive work on the part of the Titor author.

Ever read Alvin Toffler? He predicted in his circa-1970 book "Future Shock" that in the future (our day, that is), people would suffer from a lack of direction and would latch onto many crazy ideas. He was right, but he never claimed to be a time traveller. Just a good guesser.

Originally posted by Simulacra
John Titor claimed that this was a typo and that the wars were supposed to begin in 2005. We all know this.

Question Simulacra:
When the John Titor predicted 2005 US Civil War does not take place, would it be safe to correctly assume that Titor is full of crap and that those who have followed him and reiterated what he has said, verbatum, are foolish for even thinking that this man was in any way legit?






seekerof

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
"Titor mentioned that it would be a "war" of "majorities against minorities"... and that “it doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression"... "

still, will you take up arms and kill americans over this, this year ? (if you are an american) Thats what a civil war is, right ? american vs american in deadly combat. not protests. not upheaval. not riots. not looting.

organized, deadly combat.

I just can't see it based on this scenario.....maybe I'm naive......

Titor did not mention that the "civil conflicts" would be a matter of American citizens killing eachother. It would be a "war" of "minorities" against Governmental Policies and safety measures eroding the US Constitution and restricting people's rights.

Starting in 2005 those conflicts could initially be recognized in the sense of a monthly event wherein "Waco type" methods are being used by the authorities and are steadily growing worse into a "civil war" where confronting organized groups opposing these methods "engage in maneuver and armed conflict" somewhere around 2008 and there after.

so if there is no civil war in 2005, why did you name this thread "the american civil war of 2005 as predicted by John Titor"

and not

"monthly waco type events in 2005 gradually leading to a civli war in 2008"

???

waco was very serious, people were burned to death. So far so good in 2005....when do the monthly events begin ?

First of all I didn't started this thread nor did I gave a name to it. I am merely replying to it.

And yes, what happened in WACO was very serious indeed. And Titor did not mention it to tell us that there were people burning to death every month. He mentioned it because of the methods being used upon those people, the methods being used on American citizens by their own authorities, whilst everyone was watching it and did nothing.

Just tell me, what do you think that WACO was? How much information did this event provide the Government? At least it must have told them they could just go ahead with this without any public anger or opposition.

I only today, believe it or not, learned of John Titor. I have "skimmed" johntitor.com, and have a question: If i rember correctly theres the civil war in 2005 and global-nuclear war in 2015, so my question is how does he only 20 or so years later have a working(allready designed, tested, and approved for use)time machine in the ensuing chaos of a thermo-nuclear war? And then are we further to believe they sent him here for his short stay to set up a web-site and "let the world know". I've noticed alot of talk about this guy and frankley its seems to debunk itself. What am i missing here??

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so if there is no civil war in 2005, why did you name this thread "the american civil war of 2005 as predicted by John Titor"

and not

"monthly waco type events in 2005 gradually leading to a civli war in 2008"

???

waco was very serious, people were burned to death. So far so good in 2005....when do the monthly events begin ?

They were supposed to begin last year.

JT:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

The "conflicts" have already started. Titor stated clearly that it would be a matter of methods used by law enforcement officers against "minorities." Furthermore he clearly stated that these "conflicts" would open the door for other aggression growing into a "civil war" but that it would not be recognized by the majority as such until around & after 2008. A matter of perception, denial or just opening your eyes?

www.officer.com...
Taser-linked Death Ruled a Homicide in Toledo, Ohio

County Prosecutor Julia Bates said her office will conduct a review of the incident before deciding whether to take any action.

After he was carried into the county jail, Turner was booked and ate a boxed lunch before becoming agitated again in his cell. He refused attempts to restrain him and corrections officers then shocked him with a Taser.

A nurse dispatched to Turner's cell as a matter of procedure after the stun gun's use discovered he was unresponsive. He died a short time later at St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center.

No criminal or administrative charges were filed against the jail officials. City police officers also faced no criminal charges, but four police officers and a sergeant were administratively charged for improperly handcuffing Turner at the time of his arrest. Hearings on the charges were set for last month but were continued. No new dates have been set.

Family seeks firings
Shawn Turner said yesterday he was pleased with the coroner's ruling in his brother's death. The central city resident and TARTA bus driver said he wants those involved, particularly those at the sheriff's office, fired.

"If I did my job and I killed someone, do you think they'd keep me? No, they wouldn't keep me," he said.

While calling Turner's death "unfortunate," Steve Tuttle, vice president of communications for Taser International, said the firm continues to believe in the life-saving value of its devices.

Taser use to continue
Toledo police Chief Mike Navarre said in a statement yesterday that his department will continue to use Tasers, will review and analyze studies detailing the effects of the devices, and "will take any appropriate further action based upon those findings."

David Taylor III, a Toledo lawyer and former president of the NAACP's Toledo branch, sent a letter to the Toledo FBI office yesterday demanding an immediate investigation by the U.S. Justice Department into what he called a violation of Turner's civil rights.

www.contracostatimes.com...
As many as 20 teenagers may have known ahead of time about plans for the shooting spree that resulted in the deaths of 10 people on an Indian reservation March 21, tribal and federal officials said Friday.

One law enforcement official said the FBI believes that as many as four students, including gunman Jeff Weise and Louis Jourdain, a classmate arrested Sunday, were directly involved in planning an attack on Red Lake High School, while well more than a dozen others may have heard about the plot.

FBI agents seized 30 to 40 computers from the high school computer laboratory Friday to perform forensic analysis on the machines, FBI and school officials said.

As the week passed in this isolated community, the FBI's continuing investigation was compounding the residents' ingrained distrust of outside authorities.

"It still feels like it's a bad dream," said Donald May, a member of the tribal council. "We're in shock."

The last of the 10 dead was to be buried today. "I went to a lot of these funerals these past few days, and I'm just numb," said Allen Pemberton, another tribal council member.

"I've been getting strange looks," said Cartera Hart, 16, as she left a grocery store on the reservation. Hart, who was dressed in black and wore a hoop through her lip, said she hangs out in a group of about a dozen students who had been friends with Weise and Jourdain, who is the tribal chairman's son. Her friend Alyssa Roy, 15, said, "There's going to be more and more people tormenting us and thinking we're involved."

Many tribal members said they felt more comfortable talking about their grief in private, with friends and family.

Some people said they were on edge as FBI agents showed up at people's houses, and teenagers were being taken to the detention center for hours of questioning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JT: Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?

5. US Civil Conflicts will grow into US Civil War as result of Waco type & other methods by US authorities:

Ø Question: Your prediction of (national politics) pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is impossible. “Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”
Ø “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012…”
Ø “It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression.”
Ø “If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire.”
Ø “However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems”. When they use the word “enemy”, they’re talking about YOU! You don’t really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”

7. The US Civil War (conflicts) would not be recognized by the majority as such until around & after 2008:

Ø “There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years.”
Ø “It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression.”
Ø “I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.”
Ø “Do you really think the news industry doesn't have an agenda?”
Ø “By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep. Western instability during the conflict leads to the attack in 2015. WWIII is very short with a longer period of mop up.”
Ø “The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012…”
Ø Question: Does the civil war start in such a way that those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer
locations. “Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.”
Ø Question: You said that there will be a big war. Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked? “No I won't do that.
However, I submit to you that when the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The
millions people that stay will choose to stay. That's what comes as a surprise..”
Ø “Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.”
Ø “The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive.”

Everything you just posted is nothing even close to a Waco type event. And certainly not Waco type events that have got worse.

Also, please show where Titor said he made a typo.
Remember he also talked about all the unrest around the election. There's an national election this year?

Originally posted by Rren
I only today, believe it or not, learned of John Titor. I have "skimmed" johntitor.com, and have a question: If i rember correctly theres the civil war in 2005 and global-nuclear war in 2015, so my question is how does he only 20 or so years later have a working(allready designed, tested, and approved for use)time machine in the ensuing chaos of a thermo-nuclear war? And then are we further to believe they sent him here for his short stay to set up a web-site and "let the world know". I've noticed alot of talk about this guy and frankley its seems to debunk itself. What am i missing here??

JT: Even in your own history, are not great inventions and discoveries made during a time of war in your effort to kill and maim in new and more efficient ways?

I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975. I was “sent” to 1975 to get an IBM computer system called the 5100 and take it back to 2036.

One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology. In my case, my grandfather was directly involved with the building and programming of the 5100. My grandfather worked on it. That’s why I was sent. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it.

A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code. The 5100 had a very simple and unique feature that IBM did not account for and decided it was not in their best interest to advertise (which in hindsight was not very smart). This accidental feature was thus removed from any future desktop computers. In order to take advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of special "tweaks" that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975. Anyone who is familiar with this feature and was told to keep their mouth shut about it will be able to tell you what it is.

When I approached my grandfather in 1975 it took me quite a while to convince him I was who I said I was. He said something I've never forgotten and I've heard some of you allude to it also. After looking at the unit he turned to me and said, "Either you've escaped from an insane asylum or you're a time traveler. As the weeks went on, it occurred to me that both were just as threatening and dangerous to him and I'm not sure he ever decided which one was worse.

My background is in history and I had the correct profile to accomplish my given task in 1975. You could ask me all you want about 1975 but I suspect that's not very impressive. I was not prepared for the year 2001, I was prepared for 1975. …my initial trip was to 1975, not 2000.

I was not sent here to change anything. Since it would not affect my home anyway, it would be rather pointless. I'm not here to study anyone. My objective was in 1975 and the reason I'm here now is my family.

I am here now for personal reasons. I’m here because of a promise to my grandfather in 1975. I am here because of my family and the interaction I had with them in 1975. No I am not taking them with me [family] but I am trying to prepare them for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Everything you just posted is nothing even close to a Waco type event. And certainly not Waco type events that have got worse.

Also, please show where Titor said he made a typo.
Remember he also talked about all the unrest around the election. There's an national election this year?

Well then we disagree I suppose. They are most definitely WACO-type methods being used upon the American citizens. And believe me, they will get worse... it's only the beginning. And yes there was 'unrest' around the election, haven't you noticed it? How would you define the Anti-War Movement's massive protests? As nothing?

houston.indymedia.org...
"At the Mumbai World Social Forum in January 2004, Arundhati Roy suggested starting with one or two US firms benefiting directly from the war such as Halliburton and Bechtel and mobilizing to close down their operations worldwide. It is time to take her suggestion seriously, not only with respect to US firms but also with Israeli firms and products. Moreover, the level of militance must be raised, with more and more civil disobedience and non-violent disruptions of business as usual encouraged. We must tell Washington and its allies that there can be no business as usual so long as the war continues. "

Speech delivered in Vancouver, Canada, at an event sponsored by StopWar.ca, March 18, 2005, held on the occasion of the March 19-20 Global Protest against the War in Iraq.

Over the next few days, millions of people throughout the world, from Vancouver to Johannesburg, London to Manila, will be coming out to the streets to register their protest against the continuing military occupation of Iraq by the United States and its allies. In the United States alone, the last count is that there will be anti-war actions in at least 578 cities and communities.

These year’s massive protests are in the tradition of the global protests against the war of Feb. 15, 2003 and March 20, 2004. They underline the world’s continuing repudiation of the massive war crime that the US is perpetrating against the Iraqi people. They are testimony to the fact that aggression always elicits revulsion, even if it is carried out under the pretext of “extending democracy.”

The protests come at a time that Washington has launched another political offensive to convince the peoples of the world “to put Iraq behind them.” The effort is geared to convince us that with the recent elections in Iraq, there is a new game that must be played, and the name of that game is democracy.

www.cnn.com...


Look around you.....show us your papers or goto jail...

Originally posted by LDragonFire
www.cnn.com...

Look around you.....show us your papers or goto jail...

2006: John Titor’s parents leave the city to avoid conflict with the Federal Police and National Guard:

Ø “From the age of 8 to 12, [ 2006 to 2010 ] we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with
other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were
not going back to what we had and the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined.” My father
made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing "commodities" up and down the coast of Florida. I
spent most of my time helping him.”
Ø “When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most
of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was
searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father
to leave the city.”

Originally posted by Seekerof
Question Simulacra:
When the John Titor predicted 2005 US Civil War does not take place, would it be safe to correctly assume that Titor is full of crap and that those who have followed him and reiterated what he has said, verbatum, are foolish for even thinking that this man was in any way legit?

I'll be holding onto the Titor Legacy until December 31, 2005. But like you said, if nothing happens then I will automatically assume that Titor wasn't a time traveler and that it's the manfiestations of some hoaxer. But there is a lot of time until then...

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Well then we disagree I suppose. They are most definitely WACO-type methods being used upon the American citizens. And believe me, they will get worse... it's only the beginning. And yes there was 'unrest' around the election, haven't you noticed it? How would you define the Anti-War Movement's massive protests? As nothing?

lol
Protest aren't unrest! Protests are one of the rights we have as US citizens, if they are considered "unrest" then this country has been in a state of unrest since it's conception. BTW, the protests weren't even that large during the elections.

And when he mentioned Waco type events, I'm assuming he's using Waco as the standard. That stuff you mentioned has happened since anyone can remember. Why did he specifically mention Waco, if he set the standard lower?


Also:
Q - John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???)

JT - It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant ? we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict.

This brings up 2 things. His mistype was saying the war started in 2005, not 2004 as mentioned ealier.
Also, you Roth keep putting "conflict" in quotations when it's clear John Titor really is talking about armed conflicts.

***

Rren, that was discussed earlier in this thread. I'm not sure if I ever got an answer.

John Titor: Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around.

So they don't have reliable technology, but they're still able to build, test, and use time machines??

[edit on 15-4-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Well then we disagree I suppose. They are most definitely WACO-type methods being used upon the American citizens. And believe me, they will get worse... it's only the beginning. And yes there was 'unrest' around the election, haven't you noticed it? How would you define the Anti-War Movement's massive protests? As nothing?

lol
Protest aren't unrest! Protests are one of the rights we have as US citizens, if they are considered "unrest" then this country has been in a state of unrest since it's conception. BTW, the protests weren't even that large during the elections.

And when he mentioned Waco type events, I'm assuming he's using Waco as the standard. That stuff you mentioned has happened since anyone can remember. Why did he specifically mention Waco, if he set the standard lower?

Also:
Q - John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???)

JT - It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant ? we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict.

This brings up 2 things. His mistype was saying the war started in 2005, not 2004 as mentioned ealier.
Also, you Roth keep putting "conflict" in quotations when it's clear John Titor really is talking about armed conflicts.

***

Rren, that was discussed earlier in this thread. I'm not sure if I ever got an answer.

John Titor: Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around.

So they don't have reliable technology, but they're still able to build, test, and use time machines??

[edit on 15-4-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

The "civil conflicts" have indeed already started but I suppose it will initially be a war of "viewpoints" as can be derived from Titor's comments and from there it will grow into a "civil war" until it cannot be denied anymore around 2008. And that's exactly what's happening nowadays...

Isn't it interesting that you are denying any "conflict" just as can be analyzed from Titor's comments and others clearly see the "conflicts" or "events" developing in the United States and growing worse? I guess you have 3-7 years ahead to keep on denying it until a nextdoor neighbour is holding a riot gun up your nose asking nicely for your boots. You would probably still deny it saying "o that's normal, it happens all the time"...(laughter)

As can be derived from Titor's postings and taking them into context it is clear he meant that the "conflicts" gradually and steadily would get worse, GROWING into a "civil war." It would not escalate and it wouldn't be outright open fighting in the beginning, it would even flare up and down. JT: "It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression." "Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011." "That conflict flares up and down for 10 years."

Never before was America so divided as it is today. I hope you will not deny that one either...

Furthermore Titor mentioned WACO together with Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez remember? And Elian Gonzalez is not what you would portray as an event with the same violent aspects of WACO. It was the METHODS being used upon the American citizens that Titor was talking about.

WACO was an effective Government criminal cover up demonstrating their proficiency in destroying evidence, thus preventing a true accounting of the Government personnel involved by the mere command of their Public Relations language.

If WACO has learned anything it was the depth of the TRANCE STATE of the American People. An "experiment" to find their action BUTTON.

From the Government's point of view, the "experiment" was a glowing success. When all the publics' buttons were found and pushed, the American People STILL lay INERT, IMPOTENT, unable to hold their official's accountable, while an insidious fear was growing within the collective public psyche.

No need for the American People to Act, after all, such Murderous Tyranny was not happening to them. It is this mass malaise which, if not stopped, accounts for a NAZI GERMANY and will destroy a nation from within. Does anybody really want to repeat that? Are you waking up now?

The theme of Government cover up grows more and more obvious with each assault upon the lives of innocent people in our society. One saw it in Ruby Ridge, the assassination of Randy Weaver's wife and baby. And most recently, 9/11, which brought about the loss of our freedoms under the guise of our Government's declared war on Terrorism. I would say, deny it until you cannot deny it anymore.

All the while a great and growing body of evidence shows the same "investigative" Government's complicity to be present in the Murder of American Lives: The Destruction at the World Trade Center on 9-11 and the attack on the Pentagon.

You should be watching "WACO, the Rules of Engagement." What does it take to move the American People into ACTION, to generate a life-enabling activism within lives shut down through unrelenting conditioning which engenders fear and doubt?

Here's an interesting question for you to ponder: Why do people FEAR the Government? Why does the Government NOT FEAR the people, the SOVEREIGN People, the TRUE GOVERNMENT?

What I saw in WACO was a high level Government operation designed to test just how far open, Government televised, IN-YOUR-FACE MASS MURDER can be committed on a monumental scale, while the whole world looks on, and yet no serious, substantive, effective public outcries are made for accountability? Are you awake now?

Aren't the words of Titor on the spot when he said: "They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."

What do you think what will happen? Nothing? Have you recently investigated the "unrest" in Militia Groups? You still want to deny "civil unrest" around the 2004 election?

What did Titor mean when he said “civil unrest develops near the next presidential election?” He said: “Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election.”

What will become apparent? Isn’t that the WORLDWIDE protests (a clear sign of 'civil unrest') against “degrading US foreign policy” with regards to the Iraq invasion?

www.freerepublic.com...
Protests Target Bush at Summit in Chile
Posted on 11/19/2004 12:21:22 PM

SANTIAGO, Chile - Riot police used water cannons and tear gas Friday to break up a demonstration by hundreds of rock-throwing protesters before more than 20,000 people marched to vent their anger at Pacific Rim leaders, particularly President Bush.

While some protesters said they oppose the APEC summit, which they likened to a rich man's club that does nothing for the poor, much of the rage was aimed at Bush and the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Bush was arriving in Chile on Friday night. At the summit, he will seek more international support to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear weapons program, administration officials said.

Organizers said 40,000 protesters participated in the government-authorized march downtown, far from the conference center hosting the annual Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (news - web sites) forum. Police put the number at 25,000.

Marchers held up posters saying: "Bush, you stink," and "Terrorist Bush." Some chanted: "Bush, listen: Chile is not for sale!" and "Bush, fascist, thief, murderer!"

www.democraticwings.com...
Italy protests Bush's visit
From the BBC:

Tens of thousands of anti-war protesters have taken to the streets in Rome as US President George W Bush visits the Italian capital. Crowds of demonstrators shouting "No Bush, no war" marched through the city.

The protest came hours after Pope John Paul II reiterated his condemnation of the US-led war in Iraq in a meeting with Mr Bush at the Vatican.

Riot police fired some tear gas in the tense but mostly peaceful rallies, in which flares and fireworks were thrown. Organisers say 150,000 people have turned out for the protest, while police put the figure at 25,000...

www.wsws.org...
Mass protests to greet Bush in Canada

Oppose US imperialism by mobilizing the international working class
By Richard Dufour
30 November 2004

Two types of reception await US President George W. Bush when he comes to Canada this morning for a two-day state visit. From Canada’s ruling elite, Bush can expect red-carpet treatment and fulsome applause.

The popular reaction will be altogether different. Thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of angry protestors, will take to the streets to denounce Bush, giving voice to the deep-rooted popular opposition to the US’s illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Polls have consistently shown that if Canadians had had the opportunity to vote in the US presidential election considerably less than a quarter would have backed Bush.

www.christianitytoday.com...
The New Civil War

Christians must be driven by the common good, not by any ideology.
By Charles Colson with Anne Morse | posted 01/19/2005 9:00 a.m.

Among sophisticates on Manhattan's Upper East Side and in Georgetown salons, President Bush's victory last November brought much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of (fashionable) garments. Disgruntled "blue" voters threatened to move overseas to escape the "jihadists" and "mullahs" now running—and ruining—America.

In a column entitled "Two Nations Under God," The New York Times's Thomas Friedman said he woke up the morning after the election "deeply troubled" because "they [Bush and company] favor a whole different kind of America from me." Amen, echoed Tina Brown in The Washington Post: "New Yorkers don't want to live in a republic of fear."

As these liberal laments demonstrate, what we witnessed in this election is a continuing deepening of hostilities between "red" and "blue" states—Retros and Metros. Historian Gertrude Himmelfarb described this phenomenon as two cultures existing within one nation. She believes these two can coexist peacefully; I wonder. Americans are engaged in a civil war carried on by other means; as with the first Civil War, fundamental issues divide us.

How did we get into this mess? Some suggest it started when secular forces pressed their views on abortion and gay rights in court. In part, that's so. But I think we must look deeper. We dug the hole that became a cultural Grand Canyon when we abandoned belief in a moral truth that is knowable.

People who reject transcendent authority can no longer persuade one another through rational arguments; everything is reduced to personal opinion. Debates about ideas thus degenerate into power struggles; we're left with no moral standard by which to measure the common good. For that matter, how can there be a "common good" without an objective standard of truth?

The death of moral truth has fractured America into two warring camps, with each side's preferences hardening into an ideology. And ideology is the enemy of revealed truth. It's also the enemy of classical conservatism, which depends, as Russell Kirk wrote, upon tradition and the accumulated wisdom of the past; ideology, on the other hand, is a human scheme for how the world ought to be formed. Whether on the Left or the Right, ideologies are utopian—the dangerous idea that we can construct the perfect society.

This is why politics has become so ugly today. When I first worked on Capitol Hill in the 1950s, there was camaraderie among politicians. Democrats dropped into our office to chat with us. People on both sides of the aisle met in the local lounge for drinks after work. Of course, we had disagreements. But when it came to questions like how we were going to take care of the poor, our differences were over degree and means. Everybody shared common ideas about what made a good society.

Not anymore. Today, ideologies are irreconcilable. Along with lower taxes, religious conservatives argue for moral order, respect for tradition, protection of life and religious expression. Many secularists, by contrast, dismiss the idea that the government should enforce any moral good. Indeed, they want government to protect individuals from having any such standards imposed on them: radical libertarianism.

This is at the heart of the culture war—why the "reds" and "blues" are locked in mortal combat. It's a struggle for ultimate power. This is why we're seeing such hysterical rhetoric from the Left, which fears it's losing its power—and power is all that matters. The Right is just as bad. Some leaders say that since we're now in power, we get to impose our will on everyone else—an attitude repugnant to democratic governance.

What's the solution?

First, "red" Christians must reach out to "blue" Christians and vice versa. Ideology must not divide believers. Second, Christians are not seeking political power, so we're not out to "destroy" perceived political enemies. Nor do we line up for the victor's spoils, as if we were just one more special-interest group. Instead, we need to graciously contend (and demonstrate) that Christian truth is good for the right ordering of our lives, individually and collectively, and manifest our commitment to the common good by doing the things Christians do best: creating strong families, restoring relationships, helping the poor, working for human rights.

Christians are in a unique position to bring common grace to a deeply divided nation and offer something more than brief periods of peace between outbreaks of mortal combat every election cycle. In rejecting ideology and putting the common good first, we offer hope to America's warring factions.

[edit on 16-4-2005 by Roth Joint]

Posting articles irrelevent to what we're talking about is taking up way too much space.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
The "civil conflicts" have indeed already started but I suppose it will initially be a war of "viewpoints" as can be derived from Titor's comments and from there it will grow into a "civil war" until it cannot be denied anymore around 2008. And that's exactly what's happening nowadays...

Titor never said that. He said there will be ARMED conflicts and Waco type events. Meaning people die, not shout at each other.

Isn't it interesting that you are denying any "conflict" just as can be analyzed from Titor's comments and others clearly see the "conflicts" or "events" developing in the United States and growing worse?

Getting worse? Are you kidding me? Perhaps you don't know much about America history. All you have to do is look back to the '60s. Right now the US is NO WHERE close to the tension we had back then. And as I said before we weren't in danger of civil war then, so why would we be in danger of civil war now, since things are 100X better than they were back then?

I guess you have 3-7 years ahead to keep on denying it until a nextdoor neighbour is holding a riot gun up your nose asking nicely for your boots. You would probably still deny it saying "o that's normal, it happens all the time"...(laughter)

We're talking about now. That stuff was supposed to start happening last year. It's not.

As can be derived from Titor's postings and taking them into context it is clear he meant that the "conflicts" gradually and steadily would get worse, GROWING into a "civil war."

He CLEARLY states several times that the "Civil War" starts in 2004(5). The conflicts are the "battles", if you will, that gradually get worse.

JT: "It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression."

lol, here he's talking about politics.

Never before was America so divided as it is today. I hope you will not deny that one either...

Again, here's more proof you have NO clue about America history.

Furthermore Titor mentioned WACO together with Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez remember?

No he didn't. He mentioned those, but not in the same context as Waco, and not pertaining to the Civil War.

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lots of irrelevent talk
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What do you think what will happen? Nothing? Have you recently investigated the "unrest" in Militia Groups? You still want to deny "civil unrest" around the 2004 election?

What are you talking about?
There hasn't been widespread "civil unrest" in the US since the 60s.
Any protests during the election were people exercising their right to peacfully protest, there was no civil unrest or I'm sure the rioting, etc. would have lasted until at least the inaguartion or beyond.

What did Titor mean when he said “civil unrest develops near the next presidential election?” He said: “Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election.”

So the West is now destabilized?

What will become apparent? Isn’t that the WORLDWIDE protests (a clear sign of 'civil unrest') against “degrading US foreign policy” with regards to the Iraq invasion?

What part of PEACEFUL PROTEST(s) ISN'T CIVIL UNREST is hard to comprehend?

John Titor was the best hoax ever to take place on the internet. Sadly, none of it is true and everything is based on theories. If it is true, i shall find the John Titor of this timeline to kill him and prevent him from annoying me yet again, look dudes, a US civil war isn't going to happen, if it does, i will wear a "I love Titor" t-shirt, happy?