Police chiefs ask US to waive immunity for envoy's wife in crash.

I find it interesting that that particular base is under diplomatic immunity whereas all the others fall under a SOFA agreement. There are at least a dozen bases doing the exact same mission all over the UK. Its not even that close to London really.

a reply to: seagull

originally posted by: Jason79
Since when are traffic accidents a criminal offence unless the person was under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Seems to me the embassy made the correct call telling her to leave.

Based on the information that's been made publicly available, She was breaking UK law because she wasn't showing "due care and attention". This is UK talk to mean that she was seriously negligent andor distracted. Its one of the most basic parts of the UK system. It covers most incidents where a person causes an accident by not following the rules or by doing things like speeding or texting behind the wheel.

According to European news reports she wasn't paying proper attention to the road when she pulled out of the base, she crossed the central reservation, continued on for a short distance, and struck the other person head on. He was where he was supposed to be doing what he was supposed to do, and she wasn't.

It's a pretty open and shut case under UK law. She did something wrong, failed to correct it, and a death resulted. Often these cases never make it to court.People simply plead out as they can't deny being guilty. And when they do go to trial they often don't go to a jury as 99% of juries would convict on the spot.

The correct thing to do would have been for her to surrender to the local police and to try to plea down to a lesser offense. She could probably have served a short period of time in a US run facility and then gotten on with her life. Now she's created a diplomatic incident.

The UK government could potentially retaliate by withdrawing cooperation with the US in key areas. This could actually lead to the death of soldiers serving overseas if UK intelligence was withheld, or if a spy is outed somewhere like Iran then even more people could die.

We may never get to hear about it, but you can be assured that an American citizen will suffer for this. Maybe more than one. And that's not counting reprisal attacks. The next time a family member of a GI serving in the UK gets jumped in a dark alley, think about this woman and how she ran.

Husband of US woman granted diplomatic immunity 'not registered diplomat'

The husband of the American woman granted diplomatic immunity following a fatal car crash was not registered as a diplomat, a lawyer has told Sky News.

Mark Stephens revealed Jonathan Sacoolas is not on the official diplomatic list, meaning he or any dependants may not be allowed protection through diplomatic immunity.

The international lawyer said the Foreign Office has confirmed this to him. Sky News is waiting for confirmation from the Foreign Office.

Sky News Link

The poster above has posted the latest news about this story.

The husband of the American woman granted diplomatic immunity following a fatal car crash was not registered as a diplomat, a lawyer has told Sky News.

Mrs Sacoolas was actually given protection under a bilateral UK-US agreement which allows US spies to work from the UK and spy for the US without fear of prosecution.

The deal is separate from the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the international treaty signed by 192 states which enables diplomats to carry out their jobs without fear of coercion or harassment by the host country.

I think this is utterly disgusting. Mrs Sacoolas was given diplomatic immunity AFTER running Harry over and killing him, she was given a "get out jail free card" for her actions. Would any of us regular "joes" expect to be sent home from another country for killing someone?
It has also come to light that Mrs Sacoolas had a previous driving conviction in America for bad driving. In Amercan the charge is called failure to pay full time and attention.

Link to story about previous charge.

a reply to: Kurokage

For failure to pay full time and attention in most states is a 20.00 fine. You get them for talking on your cell phone while driving. Hardly the same offense. Next it wasnt her decision to leave it was the state department who put her on a military flight to the states.

I know people want to make this woman out to be evil i get it. But as usually the case there is far more to the story. However do to the nature of the accident looks like people want to lock her up and throw away the key.

This is probably why they sent her home. Had she hit a car no one would have died. And the only people mad would be her insurance company. Being a bad driver shouldnt put someone in jail here in the states it would not. She would be sued but no jail time.

a reply to: dragonridr

I don't think she should be locked up and the key thrown away.
She should face justice, pure and simple. If thats a fine then so be it, if it's prison time, she should face that to.

now people want to make this woman out to be evil i get it. But as usually the case there is far more to the story.

I don't see the "more to this story" angle myself. She ran down and killed a young man and should face the consequences of her actions, but she wont. She should face the family of Harry, but she wont.

Had she hit a car no one would have died. And the only people mad would be her insurance company. Being a bad driver shouldnt put someone in jail here in the states it would not.

So if you ride a bike or a motor bike, its your fault if I hit you and kill you? It doesn't matter if you're abiding by the law, minding your own business.
Being a bad driver and killing someone and then fleeing the scene is called a hit and run is it not? that's exactly what she has done.

For failure to pay full time and attention in most states is a 20.00 fine.

But she wasn't in the states, she was here in Great Britian and should abide by the law here. If I ran over and killed a member of your family driving on the left hand side of the road whilst visiting the US and then said I was driving on the correct side of the road, should I be allowed to get away with it and be sent home?
Being a bad driver is one thing, killing someone is entirely diffrent, and the U.S. does have vehicular manslaughter or negligent homicide.

a reply to: dragonridr

It's not about being a poor driver
It's about negligence.

I would have not been surprised to see a fine, ban and an order to retake her driving test.

Now though? The tabloids will be demanding prison.

It was a dumb error, and would have been punished as such.

Unless it emerges that the state department kidnapped her back to the US then she's entirely to blame for fleeing.

As an aside, I'm not sure bases like this belong in the UK if the price is our people being harmed by morons who can just evade their responsibilities.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I find it interesting that that particular base is under diplomatic immunity whereas all the others fall under a SOFA agreement. There are at least a dozen bases doing the exact same mission all over the UK. Its not even that close to London really.

a reply to: seagull

The base doesn't have diplomatic immunity, certain individuals in it have. There are in the region of 23'000 people in the UK right now with diplomatic immunity status, most of whom are foreign diplomats and their families.

I dont think anyone here wishes ill on this woman for the accident, accidents happen, its a fact of life, its her seemingly uncaring attitude afterwards thats got everybody riled up.

I wish the available information specified wether she was advised, told or ordered to leave or even wether it was a choice left to her after being advised. It could make a whole lot of difference to peoples opinion.

Explain this then??????

news.sky.com...







a reply to: PaddyInf

a reply to: Kurokage

unless the FCO home office and the court of st james - are complicit in a conspiracy

she was NOT " given " diplomatic imunity post facto

please research how it REALLY works -

the abridged verion = foreign governments must REQUEST immunity status for thier personel - and its granted // rejected by the HOST govt

it CANNOT be " self granted "

just a personal annecdote on this issue : [ only annecdote - because despite knowing key names - google news has no evidence this occurred ]

i know for a fact that several years ago - a french business man - served 18 months prison sentence - in the UK for the wrongful death of a an in an RTC . the frenceman has been attending a confernce in london - and ATTEMPTED to drive back to dover drunk - and nded up on wrong side of road - he was spotted by two witnesses everal munuites previously - and police were attempting to intercept him - but arrived after the collision

so yes - we do give prison sentences to foreign hationals for such incidents

Quite easy. The people in the base are awarded immunity depending on their role. The roles within the base that these people are filling are diplomatic in nature and DI has been requested for them. Most people on the base do not have such immunity.

This report only implies that DI is usually awarded only to diplomats in London, but that those in this base can also have it awarded. It's not saying that every foreigner in the base had it or that it is blanket cover.

ETA this is in reply to lakenheath24 - the reply function is playing up for me and won't let me quote.

originally posted by: Kurokage
The poster above has posted the latest news about this story.

The husband of the American woman granted diplomatic immunity following a fatal car crash was not registered as a diplomat, a lawyer has told Sky News.

Mrs Sacoolas was actually given protection under a bilateral UK-US agreement which allows US spies to work from the UK and spy for the US without fear of prosecution.

The deal is separate from the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the international treaty signed by 192 states which enables diplomats to carry out their jobs without fear of coercion or harassment by the host country.

I think this is utterly disgusting. Mrs Sacoolas was given diplomatic immunity AFTER running Harry over and killing him, she was given a "get out jail free card" for her actions. Would any of us regular "joes" expect to be sent home from another country for killing someone?
It has also come to light that Mrs Sacoolas had a previous driving conviction in America for bad driving. In Amercan the charge is called failure to pay full time and attention.

Link to story about previous charge.

Update. Apparently the lawyer was incorrect. Sky News now reporting that the Foreign Office has confirmed that the claim is inaccurate.

a reply to: lakenheath24

hy should he " explain " the failings of sky news to actually report facts accuratly ??????

the US - has a counsulate in edinborugh and belfast - both staffed with officers that enjoy diplomatic imunity

source

so the sky reportage is already erroneous on one count

a reply to: tommyjo

Thanks for the update Tommyjo.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

A mistake was made in the reporting, it happens, but that's no excuse for trying to disregard her fleeing after an accident. There have been many reports into how Harry was killed by many diffrent news outlets and the police.

Can't believe I'm seeing people blame the kid for not being in a more sturdy vehicle...Seriously??? That's quite sick.

I know many Americans will stick up for her because she's American and just as many Brits will support the boy because he's a brit BUT for goodness sake drop the crap re the countries and just look at the main thing, the accident. That young boy is dead because of dangerous driving, I'm sure she never meant to do it but as an adult in charge of the car she's fully responsible.

As for the diplomatic immunity, disgusting that its being used to evade justice, this isn't a row about parking tickets or trivial matters, its about the death of a young boy and how that impacts the family, in no way should you just be allowed to runaway and be shielded simply because your husband is a diplomat...

The simple fact is that the woman should be made to return to face the police so the facts can be heard and then if classed as guilty she should be charged and face a trial like every other criminal / killer.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Completely agree. Modern Diplomatic immunity was originally created during the Cold War with the Vienna convention to give some protection to diplomats to avoid being detained under vague laws for political reasons, something common prior to this. It was not designed as a get out of jail free card for a someone who can't follow the law.

The basic ethos behind the Vienna Convention was that the people granted it would make all efforts to adhere to the laws of the host country but would be protected from spurious prosecution.

That was stupid and immoral advice they gave her. I would be pissed off if a foreigner did this in America. Whoever advised and abetted her to flee should be fired, and she should be forced to go back and cooperate with the authorities. Also, the U.S. government should send representatives to apologize in person to the young man’s family. Sacoolas should have to pay for any fines or damages.