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Intelligence Is Not A Virtue

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posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: zosimov

" Intelligence Is Not A Virtue "


I Agree . It is a Necessity for Survival Instead .




posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders
Well, I'll tell you this much. If you deliberately produce a child that is genetically screwed and their bad luck continues with how the world treats them once they're here, you pretty much made that happen. I personally think that's far more morally corrupt than the idea of preventing a tragedy before it happens.


If you're referring to the only direct example in my OP (Down syndrome), don't you think it would be imperative to ask them whether or not they believe being born sets of a chain of bad luck? To me, that's only fair.
There may be other studies out there that say something different, and I'll read evidence to the contrary if you find it and post it, but here is also a decent place to start.


Abstract
This study asks people with Down syndrome, ages 12 and older, about their self-perception so that their information could be shared with new and expectant parents of children with Down syndrome. We analyzed valid and reliable survey instruments from 284 people with Down syndrome on the mailing lists of six non-profit Down syndrome organizations around the country. Among those surveyed, nearly 99% of people with Down syndrome indicated that they were happy with their lives; 97% liked who they are; and 96% liked how they look. Nearly 99% people with Down syndrome expressed love for their families, and 97% liked their brothers and sisters. While 86% of people with Down syndrome felt they could make friends easily, those with difficulties mostly had isolating living situations. A small percentage expressed sadness about their life. In our qualitative analysis, people with Down syndrome encouraged parents to love their babies with Down syndrome, mentioning that their own lives were good. They further encouraged healthcare professionals to value them, emphasizing that they share similar hopes and dreams as people without Down syndrome. Overall, the overwhelming majority of people with Down syndrome surveyed indicate they live happy and fulfilling lives.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...



posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 08:21 PM
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What are we actually talking about here?...
Because while intelligence itself is not a virtue
It can be...
But as others have stated, intelligence can also be used for evil as well

In my opinion...
If you're just talking about a person with low IQ
( which in my opinion. There are many different "genres" if you will, or (styles) , of intelligence.)

But any Intelligence, along with any wisdom, is something that is attained.
Through...
learning, personal experiences, self growth, and just life in general...

Unless you're talking about certain mental and physical illness,
That a person is born with.
That may hinder them from being able to become intelligent...

And even that is only certain cases it depends on the condition and how bad it is....

There is a lot of people with down syndrome who can become intelligent and wise

And other conditions... look at Helen Keller

I think when it comes to certain conditions it would be nice to be able to filter somethings out with technology and eugenics...

not just because someone has a low IQ!
Or looks different!
Or learns differently!
That's not right.

We are all different for a reason...
If we all looked and acted the same,
the world would be damm boring lol.

Regardless of anyone's IQ or mental or physical condition we all have the right to live a happy life




posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Subaeruginosa


Just simply saying if its in our technological capabilities to ensure people bought into this world are genetically dispositioned to be healthy and of high intelligence, then obviously that would be a positive thing.


We have plenty of healthy and intelligent people who have tortured and killed others, who rape and abuse people, who have committed horrendous crimes.


Admittedly, intelligence within its self can at times be totally over rated, as a tool to living a successful, wholesome or filling life.

But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the claim that anyone who commits the "horrendous crimes" you speak of, were in anyway healthy individuals.



posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders


And it is bestowed upon those who posses it randomly. If you got it, you got it and if you don't, you don't. Those who possess it will exploit it. If you have low intelligence, your fate is to exist in a world that is dominated by those with high intelligence. So your existence is likely to be basically a curse.


So you don't believe intelligence is something that is attained?

Wow sad



posted on Oct, 5 2019 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Subaeruginosa


Just simply saying if its in our technological capabilities to ensure people bought into this world are genetically dispositioned to be healthy and of high intelligence, then obviously that would be a positive thing.


We have plenty of healthy and intelligent people who have tortured and killed others, who rape and abuse people, who have committed horrendous crimes.


Admittedly, intelligence within its self can at times be totally over rated, as a tool to living a successful, wholesome or filling life.

But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the claim that anyone who commits the "horrendous crimes" you speak of, were in anyway healthy individuals.


Idk about healthy mentality...lol

But there was definitely some very intelligent ones...
And still are to this day



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 12:28 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: zosimov

By stating that intelligence isn't a virtue and maligning intelligent people, aren't you doing the same thing you accuse intelligent people of doing?


Fact not in evidence.
Not considering intelligence a virrtue isn't maligning intelligent people.
Nor does the OP accuse intelligent people of anything.
Only people who think they're more intelligent or virtuous AND morally fit to decide the fate of others (in their own mind).
Or did I miss something in the OP?

ganjoa



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: zosimov

If this opinion were his alone, I’d probably just shrug it off as unfortunate (due to my high opinion of Huxley as an author), but I think that the idea of certain people being more genetically blessed than others (and, therefore, in some way, better) does prevail and shows up rather commonly.


Its not just an opinion, its just fact, some are simply born more genetically superior than others.


The whole point of the OP is WHO gets to decide what is "superior" - there's no objective measure of superior genetics as the OP points out that the idea certainly exists that some people are more genetically blessed than others. .
There are objective measures of deficient genetics as referenced above.
So whether you call the difference in our make up a "blessing" or view it as "superiority", it's not objective at all.

ganjoa



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 12:50 AM
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originally posted by: DustybudzZ
a reply to: BrianFlanders


And it is bestowed upon those who posses it randomly. If you got it, you got it and if you don't, you don't. Those who possess it will exploit it. If you have low intelligence, your fate is to exist in a world that is dominated by those with high intelligence. So your existence is likely to be basically a curse.


So you don't believe intelligence is something that is attained?

Wow sad


Why sad?
Wisdom is attained. Learning is attained. Skills and mental acuity are attained. Various mental states can be attained.
Intelligence is not attained, it's an innate ability. You can hone your mental skill; you're not increasing intelligence, you're applying intelligence

It is also NOT a virtue.
If one's intelligence was considered a virtue by others, one could shout it from on high - yet if one does, there is nothing but shame, loathing & ridicule from others.
One poster said intelligence is a survival skill - maybe not, but it is best kept to oneself if one wants to survive.

ganjoa



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 01:03 AM
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Ive told about it on here before.. long time ago in another eugenics discussion. Real eugenics has touched my family in some subtle and some blatant ways. The woman who adopted my grandmother was sterilized in NC in the 20's ( or thereabout) because she was "feeble" and the Drs suggested to her parents she would never be able to care for a child anyway. SHe was bitten by a mosquito and had contracted encephalitis which effected her language centers. She had very garbled speech, but her intelligence was at least average, if not superior. My grandmothers parents died and she adopted my grandmother ( that was in a time in flux with guidelines for NDNs adopting NDNs only. Later it didnt matter becasue she was right back on rez anyway. This "feeble" woman did a great job with my grandmother and went well out of her way to keep her completely involved in tribal and family matters. Very forward thinking for her time. I call her my great grandmother and consider her my ancestor. I am proud this feeble minded woman was around and Im proud to call her my family. My aunt on my dads side had cojoined twins and they were attached at the lower back, so even waaayy back then they were able to separate them and the doctors demanded it because one was female and the other was male. One came out right as rain ( the boy) , the other one had a hole in her spine that effected her development. The boy turned out to be smart and a devil. The girl was a light to everyone that knew her and truly sweet.

Things like this make you question the intelligence.. or sanity.. of the proponents of eugenics.

By what yardstick is intelligence measured and by whom.. and how do scientific discoveries effect this yardstick. The older I get the more I truly believe there is room for everyone on this planet and within our societies. From the sheeple to the **insert label here** to the non reproducing gays to the breeders who have litters of kids, to the "slow" to the "intelligent". There are things that each person brings to the table and ways each person effects another. Life is so incredibly short and I have to wonder about those who waste a single moment comparing themselves to everyone else to see where they fit and if they are superior to another.

Im smart, arrogant, egotistical, and a jerk... but if I can figure out that this makes me NO higher nor lower than another person, I bet others can as well. There are definitely levels of dangerousness however, and an eugenicist is definitely more dangerous to us as a species. Soft kills make you just as dead.



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: Night Star

The answer to your question would be yes. Whilst they may not show all the traits you mentioned Politicians seem to have a flair for war mongering and looking after their Big business mates. Nothings changed for 1000's of years.

So yes it seems they are more desirable or humans just need to have a constant stick beating them on the back.

Sociopaths = Politicians



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: zosimov
This is why our eyes can be so compelling-- they often tell much more of a story than the other features of a face.


Inability to use this faculty puts one at perpetual distance. I often wonder how much of the human experience is lost when one can't look another, nor be looked, in the eyes.

Good post. Cheers.
edit on 6/10/2019 by DictionaryOfExcuses because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2019 @ 11:44 AM
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If intelligence were a sin, it would be pride. The other sin would just fill in the blanks.



posted on Oct, 7 2019 @ 07:55 AM
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Thanks to everyone who responded!
Night Star, you and Advantage made my point better than what I wrote in the OP

DoE, you're right-- that mode of connection is all there, in the eyes.
a reply to: Advantage

Thank you for sharing your story. It's a very powerful post.



posted on Oct, 7 2019 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: zosimov

Great thread. I agree 100%. It's weird (and frightening) that some people actually believe they have the moral authority to decide who gets to stay and who 'goes'. There's a conspiracy theory that a group of elites or illuminati types are
actually planning a 'culling' of the population.

I think it was one of the ancient Greeks who said "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." Those are wise words!


Yes, wise words indeed, but science has a way to change everyone's genetics so nobody has to be culled.



Germline gene therapy, which involves modifying the genes in egg or sperm cells, which will then pass any genetic changes to future generations. Experimenting with this type of therapy, scientists injected fragments of DNA into fertilized mouse eggs. The mice grew into adults and their offspring had the new gene. Scientists found that certain growth and fertility problems could be corrected with this therapy, which led them to think that the same could be true for humans. Although it has potential for preventing inherited disease, germline gene therapy is controversial and very little research is being done, for technical and ethical reasons.


kidshealth.org...



posted on Oct, 10 2019 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: ganjoa

originally posted by: DustybudzZ
a reply to: BrianFlanders


And it is bestowed upon those who posses it randomly. If you got it, you got it and if you don't, you don't. Those who possess it will exploit it. If you have low intelligence, your fate is to exist in a world that is dominated by those with high intelligence. So your existence is likely to be basically a curse.


So you don't believe intelligence is something that is attained?

Wow sad


Why sad?
Wisdom is attained. Learning is attained. Skills and mental acuity are attained. Various mental states can be attained.
Intelligence is not attained, it's an innate ability. You can hone your mental skill; you're not increasing intelligence, you're applying intelligence

It is also NOT a virtue.
If one's intelligence was considered a virtue by others, one could shout it from on high - yet if one does, there is nothing but shame, loathing & ridicule from others.
One poster said intelligence is a survival skill - maybe not, but it is best kept to oneself if one wants to survive.

ganjoa



What is intelligence ?


the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.


So in a way all humans have "intelligence"...

(Because we are a complex and intelligent lifeform)

Even animals show intelligence.

Now as I said before, there are many different intelligence in many different ways...

If intelligence is an innate ability,
then wouldn't it stand to reason to say everyone has it?
Just in various forms.

What you're implying,
insist.
There is a person and or people out there that are more intelligent then "everyone" on "everything"

And that is just not true logically




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