Highest paid teachers strike again!

originally posted by: Bloodworth
That good pay for summers off.

Most people work all year around

And again. How are you adding this? “Most people work all year” dur dur! Ok, let’s make this clear. How many hours are these teachers working? You have no fing clue. Got it? How can you say what fair pay is when you have no clue what the job entails, or how many hours they are working? How about we just make an ignorant guess! Right?

So, realistic basis here. My wife, who was a 10-11th grade ap biology and allied health teacher. Worked Monday through Friday, from 7am until 10/11 pm most nights, and generally 5-8 hours a day Saturday and Sunday.
So that’s about 80-90 hours of work a week. She did this for about 8 months each year, and during the summer she still had responsibilities at the school, prepping for the next year, writing intro letters and recommendations for all her students, etc.
but, let’s just take that 8 months of school, going with 80hrs a week, which is low. Salary of 55k plus a 5k bonus some years because her students had the highest pass rates for the exams for college credit.

So low estimate that’s 2560 hours of work over 8 months, not counting the weekends etc.
that comes out to $21 an hour. No overtime pay, like people would normally get for putting in that much time either. $21 an hour, how horrifying!! What kind of greedy person would want more than $21 an hour for 80 hour work weeks??

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.illinoispolicy.org...

Nothing to see here, just another Liberal city, that is once again reaching it's greedy hands into everyone's pockets.

The Chicago Teachers Union vote to strike for the third time in seven years is a demand that Chicago taxpayers hand over more than $1.1 billion over three years.- their demands for 15% over three years and reductions in employee contributions to their health care plans. Salary demands and health insurance costs are typically part of contract negotiations. But CTU is also asking for more teachers and support staff, such as nurses and counselors,...CTU also wants the school district to help new teachers buy homes

That is exactly what is happening to Illinois is anyone doesn't believe it.

Another thing is happening to Illinois, and most people aren't aware of it. Because these teachers keep asking for and getting raises, schools south of Chicago, especially here in Southern Illinois, have to keep cutting programs and teachers, because there's not enough money in the budget to pay for them. I'm tired of Chicago's crap. We need to secede already and become South Illinois. Chicago takes so much of our money that we only have three state police cars to patrol eight different counties here in Southern Illinois. That is a CRIME!

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.illinoispolicy.org...
Nothing to see here, just another Liberal city, that is once again reaching it's greedy hands into everyone's pockets.
This is nuts!! Yes the third time in seven years.
These teachers are some of the highest paid teachers in the country, yet they are striking again.
There was a time when striking was needed for fair and honest wages. Now it is being used to hold the community, and parents hostage.
It is greed, plain and simple.
I think this is more than just teachers striking. If you look at their requests, it also mentions help to buy new homes. What the heck does that have to do with teaching. Absolutely nothing. This is the new Liberal mantra, give us an inch we'll ask for a mile. That's why I don't believe any politician that says, oh we'll just tax the billionaires. We all know it will soon be the millionaires, then the people making 500K and it will keep going down the line until there is no money left. That is exactly what is happening to Illinois is anyone doesn't believe it.

greed may certainly be playing a part. now i don't know what they earn vs the cost of living in that area. but every teacher i know, in not just the US, but in every country i know a teacher in, they are under paid. and on top of that they almost all also end up having to buy teaching supplies for their classes themselves.

i also think this has to do with more than just striking. and that request for helping them buy new homes actually speaks volumes. think about it a minute. this is Chicago. the main city of Illinois. now what has been something discussed rather recently about that state and city? oh that's right. things about the city and state going broke. and that they should be cutting back on promised pensions. pensions that were promised, and are in fact part of their pay that they were promised for the work they did. in that case it actually makes perfect sense that they would want more money up front being paid to them. money that they might be able to put aside in their own retirement fund. just in case their promised pension they are owed gets the axe. and thinking that way it makes a lot of sense as well they want help buying a home. since if they own a home they would be far more financially secure as they age. since that should mean that they wouldn't have to try to afford to pay rent, on a limited income later in life. as well as being something of value they could then sell when they retire. and use that money from that home to finance possibly a new home somewhere else when they retire. or even to help them live on after retirement.

you could even say that this strike is the direct result of the city's and state's financial irresponsibility. that they are trying to protect themselves and their futures from bad governance that has put that city and state in to such a bad position. rather like with getting a loan. the better your credit, ie the less chance of you defaulting on a loan, the cheaper lending rate you can get. or vice versa, the more of a financial risk you are, making you more likely to default on said loan, the more you will have to pay for that loan. due to the fact that you are a risky investment. in this way the city of Chicago, and the state of Illinois are at high risk of defaulting on their financial obligations. and thus those who they owe money to are just doing what any bank does, and wanting to charge more because of the higher risk of the city and state meeting their obligations and defaulting on money owed. and lets face it. Chicago and Illinois are pretty much the poster child for someone with bad credit, and likely to default on money owed.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth
That good pay for summers off.

Most people work all year around

And again. How are you adding this? “Most people work all year” dur dur! Ok, let’s make this clear. How many hours are these teachers working? You have no fing clue. Got it? How can you say what fair pay is when you have no clue what the job entails, or how many hours they are working? How about we just make an ignorant guess! Right?

So, realistic basis here. My wife, who was a 10-11th grade ap biology and allied health teacher. Worked Monday through Friday, from 7am until 10/11 pm most nights, and generally 5-8 hours a day Saturday and Sunday.
So that’s about 80-90 hours of work a week. She did this for about 8 months each year, and during the summer she still had responsibilities at the school, prepping for the next year, writing intro letters and recommendations for all her students, etc.
but, let’s just take that 8 months of school, going with 80hrs a week, which is low. Salary of 55k plus a 5k bonus some years because her students had the highest pass rates for the exams for college credit.

So low estimate that’s 2560 hours of work over 8 months, not counting the weekends etc.
that comes out to $21 an hour. No overtime pay, like people would normally get for putting in that much time either. $21 an hour, how horrifying!! What kind of greedy person would want more than $21 an hour for 80 hour work weeks??

Sorry but half those hours do not count.
If she is working on her off timex that is her choice.

The gym teacher and elementary school teacher with much less responsibility are getting the same pay.

What other job has a tenure that makes it very hard to fire a teacher for bad behavior.

Summers off damn...cant beat that.

And their pensions are really well off.

My neighbor a retired teacher. said he capped out at just under 3 figures.
Has been getting 80,000 a year for the last 5 years.

With his house paid off he said its more then enough. already put money for grandkids college away.

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth
That good pay for summers off.
Most people work all year around

And again. How are you adding this? “Most people work all year” dur dur! Ok, let’s make this clear. How many hours are these teachers working? You have no fing clue. Got it? How can you say what fair pay is when you have no clue what the job entails, or how many hours they are working? How about we just make an ignorant guess! Right?

So, realistic basis here. My wife, who was a 10-11th grade ap biology and allied health teacher. Worked Monday through Friday, from 7am until 10/11 pm most nights, and generally 5-8 hours a day Saturday and Sunday.
So that’s about 80-90 hours of work a week. She did this for about 8 months each year, and during the summer she still had responsibilities at the school, prepping for the next year, writing intro letters and recommendations for all her students, etc.
but, let’s just take that 8 months of school, going with 80hrs a week, which is low. Salary of 55k plus a 5k bonus some years because her students had the highest pass rates for the exams for college credit.

So low estimate that’s 2560 hours of work over 8 months, not counting the weekends etc.
that comes out to $21 an hour. No overtime pay, like people would normally get for putting in that much time either. $21 an hour, how horrifying!! What kind of greedy person would want more than $21 an hour for 80 hour work weeks??

Sorry but half those hours do not count.
If she is working on her off timex that is her choice.
The gym teacher and elementary school teacher with much less responsibility are getting the same pay.
What other job has a tenure that makes it very hard to fire a teacher for bad behavior.
Summers off damn...cant beat that.

seriously you think that the extra hours a teacher puts in are "voluntary". that a teacher has a choice to do so or not?

without those extra hours a teacher puts in after school hours, school would be even more of just a baby sitter than it is now. kids would not really learn anything. as poor as education is now, it would be far, far worse without the teachers working "off the clock". as a parent what would you think if a child had no assignments or projects to do? no tests? no report cards? heck not even a lesson plan. because those are all things that is what a teacher actually does after school hours and on weekends. they make lesson plans, and make sure they know what they are to teach the kids. the come up with assignments and projects for kids to do. they make the tests and exams the kids need to do. they make homework assignments. and then they also have to mark all of that, again in their "off hours". they fill out report cards. they meet with parents when needed (especially since for many parents they are too busy at work to do so during school hours (not to mention who will watch and teach the kids if the teacher was busy meeting with parents about the issues of a student?). when during the school day do you think a teacher can do all of that? they are too busy teaching the kids. even in the times when the students are doing work, and not being actively taught, a teacher must be available and normally ends up having to help students when they need it. and the sad fact i s, with class sizes we have, a teacher doesn't even have enough time to even help all the students that need extra help. now of course it is possible to have teachers do all the work they need to do during school hours. all it would take is having two or three teachers for every class. that way while one teacher is actually doing the job of teaching, the other one or two could be doing everything else that needs to be done. you could even set it up that one teacher teaches one day, and another on another day. with the one(s) not teaching that day at the school doing all the other work. or you could set it up like high school where one teacher teaches one or two subjects, and then does the other work while other teachers teach their subjects. of course remember that doing so would possibly double or more the taxes you need to pay, to pay all those extra teachers.

and i don't know where you come from. but in grade school it was t he same teacher t hat teaches everything else that is also the gym teacher. and in high school, every "gym teacher" ALSO taught other subjects. subjects like math, English, and science. and let me tell you it really sucked having gym, and then the same teacher for math the next period where problems between me and the teacher (i was bad at sports and such), from gym class continued on in math class. so yes, they do actually have pretty much the same work load. and you forget that teachers, especially gym teachers are expected to do after school activities, after their work hours. things like team sports. but also extracurricular clubs. and again that is not a choice but mandatory work. and something that tends to piss of parents and the public when such activities don't happen, such as during school job actions. "oh t he poor children, they can't have the extra activities they NEED after school. teachers are evil for failing to meet the children's needs.

and of course we get the teachers get summers off BS. yes they do get summers off, as well as Christmas and march break off. but guess what. they are also NOT PAID for those holidays. of course many areas defer some of the teacher's pay (defer means to put aside some of a teacher's pay), so they can receive that money to at least give them a bit of income for those "holidays". ever notice there never seems to be a shortage of teachers to teach summer school? teachers actually pretty much compete for teaching summer school, so they can earn money. and if they can't manage to get teaching summer school, many work any seasonal job for the summer they can find. so yeah, teachers do get that time off. but they are not paid for that time off.

i agree with you about tenure. in fact many teachers also agree with you about tenure. yet it w a s something put into place to protect teachers from getting fired, because of things like little Johnny failing, and his parents getting pissed off and force the school system to fire the teacher in revenge. just because little Johnny's parents are a big deal in the community.

a reply to: Bloodworth

Someone has no clue. My wife had 6 classes a day with 30 students each. That’s 180 kids. This is medical and anatomy, which people who haven’t taken it don’t understand. Tests are not multiple choice. So every test, quiz, exam she has 180 sets of short answer, constructive response, essays, etc. How long does it take you to read and judge 180 pages of information (assuming each test was one page, which they were not)? I often sat up with her till late at night trying to help her grade stacks and stacks of quizzes, exams, etc.

Her choice working on her off time. You have no clue what you are talking about.

a reply to: pexx421

cry me a river .

first SHE made the CHOICE to become a teacher. Unless your implying she is a moron she damn well knew what the job entails, pay available, compensation and work load.

she CONTINUES TO CHOOSE to stay in this occupation under these conditions.

she is MAKING MORE , better benefits and retirement than MOST OF THE TAXPAYERS who PAY HER SALARY/BENEFITS.

she does have GUARANTEED work and time of work. When she goes on strike she is GUARANTEED heath insurance, no loss of benefits under time in grade, and knows she cannot (thanks to the courts) be fired, replaced , or locked out.

in short what all private sector union people face when they go on strike . Just ask those union people now striking at GM.

you get to hold our children HOSTAGE knowing there will be a 9 month paycheck waiting for you at the end.

Firefighters and police have a no strike but BINDING ARBITRATION system where they go though a "trial" to prove why their deal is more reasonable than the employers.. ask any of their unions in that process NO ONE gets all they want and NO WAY get the raises, benefits, ect you demand .

also judging by your posts you think the taxpayers work for the teachers and should be grateful for it.

NEWSFLASH... teachers are EMPLOYEES OF THE TAXPAYER....you work FOR US and WE DECIDE what you are worth....

BTW spare me the usual "I can make more in private sector" or "I can make more elsewhere" .

if you can..... theres the door.

put up or shut up... no one forcing you to work for (ex) chicago school system.

in conclusion...
yes a good teacher is worth alot
but your union (and you by your support of said union) dont value a good teacher but think all are worth the same amount be good or bad.
but in either case your not some magical occupation that is beyond reproach or not answerable to economic factors that YOUR BOSSES the TAXPAYER is.

there is only so much money and only so much overall money you can get for education as a whole.

deal with it

scrounger

a reply to: JAGStorm

How Many of their Students Actually get Jobs once they are out of that School System ?

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: pexx421

cry me a river .

first SHE made the CHOICE to become a teacher. Unless your implying she is a moron she damn well knew what the job entails, pay available, compensation and work load.

she CONTINUES TO CHOOSE to stay in this occupation under these conditions.

she is MAKING MORE , better benefits and retirement than MOST OF THE TAXPAYERS who PAY HER SALARY/BENEFITS.

she does have GUARANTEED work and time of work. When she goes on strike she is GUARANTEED heath insurance, no loss of benefits under time in grade, and knows she cannot (thanks to the courts) be fired, replaced , or locked out.

in short what all private sector union people face when they go on strike . Just ask those union people now striking at GM.

you get to hold our children HOSTAGE knowing there will be a 9 month paycheck waiting for you at the end.

Firefighters and police have a no strike but BINDING ARBITRATION system where they go though a "trial" to prove why their deal is more reasonable than the employers.. ask any of their unions in that process NO ONE gets all they want and NO WAY get the raises, benefits, ect you demand .

also judging by your posts you think the taxpayers work for the teachers and should be grateful for it.

NEWSFLASH... teachers are EMPLOYEES OF THE TAXPAYER....you work FOR US and WE DECIDE what you are worth....

BTW spare me the usual "I can make more in private sector" or "I can make more elsewhere" .

if you can..... theres the door.

put up or shut up... no one forcing you to work for (ex) chicago school system.

in conclusion...
yes a good teacher is worth alot
but your union (and you by your support of said union) dont value a good teacher but think all are worth the same amount be good or bad.
but in either case your not some magical occupation that is beyond reproach or not answerable to economic factors that YOUR BOSSES the TAXPAYER is.

there is only so much money and only so much overall money you can get for education as a whole.

deal with it

scrounger

Interesting stances. Also completely erroneous, but interesting nonetheless.
I was speaking of my wife, who was a teacher in louisiana. I was just explaining what the job entails. I was also criticizing how you and others arbitrarily decide what pay is reasonable for jobs you have never done. Thats called many things, arrogance and ignorance among them.

To go on, these teachers are using the methods available to them to increase their pay, because the compensation is not worth the amount of work they have to put in. Thats a fair assessment made by the people actually doing the job. Sure, you can judge people whos shoes youve never walked in. They have trouble making ends meet. If their pay is increased it will still all be spent. Mostly on bills and other things which improve the dignity of life for them, their kids and family. If teachers have to work long hours, which is a requirement and expectation of the job, then they also will likely need help cooking, doing chores, babysitters, etc. during the time when they have to work. These cost extra.
This is as opposed to the wealthy elite, who regularly vote themselves raises, at the expense of their workers, merely to have more money sitting in the bank. Which you no doubt support and approve of.

Its not the teachers fault that the majority of taxpayers work in a system where they have no power to fight for their own pay increases. Thats your fault for supporting corporate tyranny for the last 40 years. If you didnt let the corporations and elite spend all your money on war and profiteering, then you and the rest of the taxpaying workers could be middle class too.

As for bosses. Youre the teachers boss because their pay originated from your tax dollars? Haha. Tell me a single job who's pay doesnt originate with workers handing over money? In fact, the whole us economy is based upon dollars loaned to us by the fed, so you dont even own the dollars in your pocket....the private bankers do....does that make them your boss? In fact, they actually are.

The problem is that you think policy, pay, etc should be based upon deserving, and you dont think anyone deserves. But none of this is based off of what works for society. And sadly, what weve been doing for the last 40 years, trickle down, wage fixing, profit motive, corporate deregulation, unfettered capitalism, doesnt work obviously. 40 years of declines and your heads are still in the sand as this us version of predatory capitalism eats itself.

You're living in delusion land where you think the poor people are greedy, the rich are wise and beneficent, and oligarchs make the best rulers.

You are a product of oligarchic brainwashing and social controls.

Deal with it.

a reply to: pexx421

I was just explaining what the job entails. I was also criticizing how you and others arbitrarily decide what pay is reasonable for jobs you have never done. Thats called many things, arrogance and ignorance among them.

Just FYI, I taught for an entire year. I have also volunteered regularly for many many years. I know what the job entails.
Do you or your wife know what every taxpayers job entails. I'll tell you this, almost all of them require people to work their jobs in the summer.

a reply to: JAGStorm

You seem to be unable to understand a simple concept. Jobs aren’t attached to periods. Some people work nights. Some work days. Some work weekends. Some work summers. Some work winters. In none of those are we paid by the period. We are generally either paid salary or hourly. And measurements of our productivity are generally done by how much money we make per an hour of our work. Doesn’t matter if that work happens in the summer time. In the spring. Whatever. I know plenty people who do travel work contracts for 6 months and take the rest of the year off. And they make way more money.

So, maybe the teachers don’t have to work summers because if they did, you wouldn’t be able to afford them! Let me spell it like this. Say I make about 70k. That’s $34/hr. If I work 80 hours in a week, that’s actually 3.5k in one week. So if I did that for 8 months, like a teacher, I’d make 14k a month, that’s $112k. And I could take off the rest of the year.

Now, let’s take those average tax payers, you say 45k a year? That’s about $21/hr. At 80 hrs in a week, with normal legal overtime, that’s $2100 a week, so $8400 a month. That’s $67k for 8 months of work, which means that according to current labor and ot laws, the teachers are getting the same average compensation as your taxpayers. But! My wife corrected me in that they actually work 10 months out of the year. So I lowballed the months worked, lowballed the hours worked in a week, and lowballed my monthly days worked calc using 4 weeks a month rather than 30 days. Which means that teachers are, on average, making far less than would your average taxpayer who makes $21/hr if they had worked 80 hours a week for 8 months.

Here ya go

www.google.com...

“If you were offered a job that paid an average annual salary of $49,000 and required you to work 12- to 16-hour days, would you take it?

Sounds like a lot of work for not much pay. But, as a new infographic shows, that’s about what the average U.S. teacher can expect when walking into a classroom. ”

originally posted by: pexx421
Here ya go

www.google.com...

“If you were offered a job that paid an average annual salary of $49,000 and required you to work 12- to 16-hour days, would you take it?

Sounds like a lot of work for not much pay. But, as a new infographic shows, that’s about what the average U.S. teacher can expect when walking into a classroom. ”

well to answer your question YES ALOT DO
the military to start off with
along with alot of police, emts, firefighters, ect.

so again cry me a river

btw you do know teachers BOSSES ARE THE TAXPAYERS
so what they want (should) go

DONT LIKE IT...GET ANOTHER JOB

isnt that what most teachers and their unions say to those who challenge them along with the threats they can go "someplace else"

well as almost all TAXPAYERS who hold jobs hear when they try to use the comments, bitching, threats, ect you try...

"dont let the door hit you on the ass on your way out"

scrounger

originally posted by: pexx421
Here ya go

www.google.com...

“If you were offered a job that paid an average annual salary of $49,000 and required you to work 12- to 16-hour days, would you take it?

Sounds like a lot of work for not much pay. But, as a new infographic shows, that’s about what the average U.S. teacher can expect when walking into a classroom. ”

actually the average between the highest and lowest is 59,XXX

along with I cant find the hour working you claim any proof of this.

along with even taking your pay at face value you conveniently left out a little thing called BENEFITS.
you know like vacation, HEALTH INSURANCE , step increases, RETIREMENT , and (what you and others gloss over ) is SUMMERS OFF.

please spare me the "we do training" and "summer school" crap

both of which under contracts they HAVE TO PAY YOU EXTRA FOR or is negotiated by YOUR UNION in your salary.

So again (as with most debates on this issue) your "pity party " cries as a whole (yes there are some VERY LIMITED EXCEPTIONS) is just that... an attempt at sympathy

sadly on a practical level falls on deaf ears now due to most of us HAVE NO MORE MONEY TO GIVE..
much less give blindly to the union just because they say so

but if you ignore what I have stated there is one universal standard that you cannot ignore.

for the majority of the public education system we are getting a sub standard product for our money.
but yet you demand more saying "it will fix it"

scrounger

a reply to: pexx421

no matter what you state about your personal situation or "average" wages.

the OP is talking about CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

they are among the HIGHEST paid across the board with a retirement plan that (while underfunded) is as good as working salary if not better

given that there is no defending them as "underpaid" teachers

scrounger

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: pexx421
Here ya go

www.google.com...

“If you were offered a job that paid an average annual salary of $49,000 and required you to work 12- to 16-hour days, would you take it?

Sounds like a lot of work for not much pay. But, as a new infographic shows, that’s about what the average U.S. teacher can expect when walking into a classroom. ”

well to answer your question YES ALOT DO
the military to start off with
along with alot of police, emts, firefighters, ect.

so again cry me a river

btw you do know teachers BOSSES ARE THE TAXPAYERS
so what they want (should) go

DONT LIKE IT...GET ANOTHER JOB

isnt that what most teachers and their unions say to those who challenge them along with the threats they can go "someplace else"

well as almost all TAXPAYERS who hold jobs hear when they try to use the comments, bitching, threats, ect you try...

"dont let the door hit you on the ass on your way out"

scrounger

Well. In the United States, when oppressed workers need to fight for appropriate wages and benefits, they STRIKE. You don’t like it, get another country!

At any rate, let’s look at your examples. Fire men? Emt? Police? Yes, they all get overtime pay for those hours. And, they all get benefits too. You’re just grasping at false equivalency straws to make an argument that has no validity in a subject you know nothing about.

As to “along with I can’t find the hour working you claim any proof of this” sorry if English isn’t your first language but let me answer what I think you’re asking. You can’t look on google and do a simple search for how many hours teachers work?? Even after I provided an article with links and sources? Then what are you even doing here.

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: pexx421

no matter what you state about your personal situation or "average" wages.

the OP is talking about CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

they are among the HIGHEST paid across the board with a retirement plan that (while underfunded) is as good as working salary if not better

given that there is no defending them as "underpaid" teachers

scrounger

I would actually defend them if the students were benefiting from this. They aren't.

a reply to: pexx421

which begs the question, if high pay is your goal, why apply for and take a job that you know that pay is typically low. i don't think that anybody is twisting their arm or forcing them to take that job.

a reply to: JAGStorm

www.npr.org...

Chicago Public Schools teachers will be on strike starting Thursday, walking out of class, they say, in the name of better schools.

You know.... for the kids, blah blah blah