June 2002 - Disc Shaped Craft Imaged Near Groom Lake's OXCART hangars

Recently stumbled across this interesting disc-like craft near the (what I believe) are the old OXCART hangars at Groom. It is fairly large (aircraft size, vs. the smaller vehicles and such) and doesn't appear in any other images at this location.


files.abovetopsecret.com...

The real interesting thing is it does match the craft(s) Bob Lazar described working with at S-4. The same craft the Russians photo'd near Papoose lake back in 1989.


files.abovetopsecret.com...
Russian satellite captured this back in 1989. Lazar worked with John Andrews from Testors model corporation to acquire the imagery.


files.abovetopsecret.com...
Close-up of the disc captured in the 1989 satellite image.


Dreamland Resort map of Area 51. I modified it slightly just to highlight the area of interest

What do you all think? I couldn't find where this has been discussed before, so what better time than to do so now

Very interesting, the question is will we can confirmation on these photos?

I believe if what Bob Lazar claims were true, he would of been put down like a dog. There is no way a guy sees the highest top secret or Gov has and runs around babbling about it, doing interviews, Netflix docs etc..

This world doesnt work that way.

Most interesting is the object appears in one shot, and gone in another?

a reply to: Elementalist

confirmation ?

I can confirm there is something that is round in that picture.. unknown object.

That is as much confirmation we will ever get..

That could be anything from a shipping container, to a service cart, to a tank of some kind. It's a pretty big leap to say it's a craft of some kind based on that.

a reply to: JBurns

Certainly interesting.

To jump to conclusion...since it's Groom, and the object is truly eerily reminiscent of the "UFO disk"...

What are the odds of it being something else ?

a reply to: Zaphod58

"shots before and after show no object".

I'm not sure what is time difference between the shots ?

If it's short interval, then where has the object gone ?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

That means either a shipping container or service cart. It got moved to somewhere else.

a reply to: Zaphod58

so a "UFO disk" is nowhere in your possibles ?

I guess we all have our biases.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Only if everyone in the security and planning office was suddenly struck dumb. Isn't it amazing that in all the years of satellite surveillance not a single image of a classified aircraft has been seen or released sitting on the ramp at the base. But suddenly they wheel out their UFO in broad daylight and leave it sitting there in the sun as a commercial satellite passes overhead.

Yes, we certainly do all have our biases.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So...what you are saying is...humans dont make mistakes ?

...and it's hardly "sitting"...since it's gone on before and after shots. It might have been there for a second or two for all we know. Would be interesting to see the interval between shots.

If it's couple of seconds...I wonder how would you then justify the disappearance of your "shipping container" in a couple of seconds.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Of course they do, but in all the years that satellites have been in use they have it down to a science. They know exactly when the satellite is going to cross the horizon, when it's directly overhead, and when it's down across the horizon again. Amazing that after all these years they only seem to make mistakes with UFOs.

There's no reason for it to be out during the day if it is a craft. They're not going to fly it in broad daylight. Any work can be done in the hangars. Powering up, if it required being outside could wait until night. There's nothing they could be doing that would have it exposed "a couple of seconds". It takes longer than that to start moving it.

I understand the desire for it to be a UFO, but they don't screw up that badly at Groom or Tonopah.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You are operating here under the assumption that "we control that aircraft" (if it is craft of some sorts).

If the folklore is correct and Groom did at some point held flying saucers, it is certainly plausible that the site would be observed frequently by the owners of said vehicle.

There's no reason for it to be out during the day if it is a craft.

hm...no reason if it "ours". That's true.

They're not going to fly it in broad daylight.

I think there is ample UFO reports of unknowns flying in broad daylight.

There's nothing they could be doing that would have it exposed "a couple of seconds". It takes longer than that to start moving it.

Unless it was flying when the shot was taken.

I understand the desire for it to be a UFO, but they don't screw up that badly at Groom or Tonopah.

It's not a desire. From my angle, I'm more open then yourself. The problem as I see it is, you as a private person are not open to the concept of us being visited by an alien race. If you were, and taking into account the location, UFO would not have been excluded from your possibilities.

Dont take it the wrong way...but that's a failure of imagination

Since I think that this entire universe is not just for us to admire, I obviously believe (quite logically if I might add) that there are other species in the universe, therefore stand to reason it is quite possible we could be visited by them.

The stuff that is preventing you to accept it, is the stuff of human limitations, like speed of travel and distance, and our own humanly understood physics.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Of course, they go to all the trouble of keeping their presence secret, then park their craft where the satellite can see it. Yes, you're far more open minded than me. You've already decided it's an alien spacecraft, based on nothing more than you believe they're here visiting us.

Your bias is showing. Don't worry, you obviously know better than me so I'll stop trying to inject anything but it's aliens.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Happens all the time.

Just like in the poorest neighborhoods in cities theres always that one house with 50k worth of cars with gold wheels in front of it.

Everyone but the police seem to notice..

a reply to: Zaphod58

I dont think the "aliens" are trying to keep their presence a secret. We the people are doing that for them. It appears to me that they dont care if they are spotted or not. Certainly troves of sightings of the unknown kind are a testament to that.

You've already decided it's an alien spacecraft, based on nothing more than you believe they're here visiting us.

I have decided, based on my bias, that alien craft is a possibility. Also, it sure damn looks like one. And it's near Groom lake. It's close to circumstantial evidence.

Outdoor type observers say it's too large to be the everyday usual thing. No tracks ...up to it ...truly a great enigmatic shot from above.....no tellin ...prolly maintaining under 400 feet if it's a craft going by the percieved comparative of the area seen around it. It's a match with the concentric lines to what I saw in 57.....58....just after the nuclear arsenal catastrophe at Rocky Flats. My first one, went in told my mom.....she didnt even come out the door I figured they were measuring the cesium131 and deuterium

Exact match to what my buddy and I spotted in friggin Arvada....1 mile from the plume....to my house...btw my dad was gone to heaven in 7 years, the whole neighborhood jumped in cars and trucks and went over there

a reply to: Elementalist

I believe if what Bob Lazar claims were true, he would of been put down like a dog.

This was my first instinct as well, however doing that (or criminally charging him) would only confirm the validity of at least part of his story. I would suspect some within the responsible agency/group would want to take this approach, but there would be little value in hypothetically killing Lazar after he made his claims public. I could see them using deadly force to prevent information from being released in rare exceptional cases, but once it is out there any retaliation on their behalf only bolsters the credibility of the claim

There is no way a guy sees the highest top secret or Gov has and runs around babbling about it, doing interviews, Netflix docs etc..

Of course Snowden is a good example of this. Here we have a guy with no formal higher education with contract jobs at CIA and NSA among others. Has top security clearance and leaks a trove of highly sensitive information. Snowden is still walking for the time being, albeit in Russia.

Most interesting is the object appears in one shot, and gone in another?

In GE and other sourced imagery it only appears 06/06/2002. The ground under the object/item is not exceptional nor does it appear set up to hold any sort of pumps/pools/spools/spindles. Judging by its size, I also do not believe it is electrical wire spool or any of the like, it is simply too large

Very interesting indeed I have a few friends taking a look at it to see if it is reflecting the environment, painted, etc and hope to get some more information about the nature of the object

As far as confirmation goes...you can verify the image on Google Earth (from that date, using Google Earth Pro for desktop). We can measure it (assuming its on the ground/stationary), look at its color, how it reflects light and all sorts of stuff. The only confirmation I could think of would be seeing this object in another photo (either ground, aerial, or other) flying around

This is why I'm very intrigued to see if this matches up in any way to the circular disc in the 1989 Russian spy satellite photo.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: JBurns

Certainly interesting.

To jump to conclusion...since it's Groom, and the object is truly eerily reminiscent of the "UFO disk"...

What are the odds of it being something else ?

Very interesting to me also MarioOnTheFly

The 1989 spy satellite photo came to mind immediately.

What are the odds of it being something else ?

I really wish I had a number here, but I have yet to logically come up with anything of that size that would be hanging around those hangars

"shots before and after show no object".

Unfortunately imagery of that area was somewhat sparse at the time, and even by combining multiple sources we are still looking at a gap of months and often years between re-images of Groom

I will say this, in before & after shots the ground under the object does not appear remarkable in any way which suggests it most likely wasn't any kind of functioning pump/etc and the presence of trucks/vehicles parking in that area since tells me it was not intended to stay there indefinitely. Whatever it is, it is self-contained and didn't require any sort of umbilical connections to utilities

The real interesting part is it doesn't show up anywhere else on the base before, during and after 06/06/2002 which lends credibility to the idea it could be inside/back inside one of those hangars.

If it was a massive spool of cabling, for example, why wouldn't it be presence (likely outdoors) at other parts of the base? That is what we'd expect to see from cabling and such. On the other hand, we would expect a craft (especially of this nature) to be inside a hangar or out flying. Since we can not see inside the hangars (only make inferences) seeing the craft flying is the next-best thing. For this, I turn to the 1989 Russian spy satellite photo of Groom/Papoose which indeed shows a disc shape craft in operation near that area and am trying to draw comparisons (if any exist) between this unknown object and that vehicle

I did label it a "craft" because I believe in the validity of circumstantial evidence. For instance, if someone finds a crowbar near a pryed open door it is reasonable to believe the crowbar was used to commit the act despite having only circumstantial evidence to form the belief. The rarity of the object (doesn't appear elsewhere/any other time at the base) combined with its location near a group of hangars thought to be unused are pretty convincing, but the fact an object matching this description was actually caught in a photo in 1989 makes it possible for an analysis beyond this one photo to be done

The results of which I greatly look forward to

I just want to add I am not claiming this is an alien craft, a human made ARV, a human made experimental or even a craft. Skepticism is always good, and we shouldn't overlook the other part of the argument that says "it could also be, X Y or Z" I am not trying to mislead anybody, make a click bait post or anything of the sort. I think this image is genuinely fascinating, and many overlook the vast number of sensitive things discovered via open sources. Heck, we exposed the secret White House bunker here on ATS using nothing more than photos published by a .gov domain. Mistakes are often made, often they are serious ones

There are pros and cons here, namely of which why on Earth would it be exposed when a satellite passed overhead or during the day at all (as Zaphod said). On the other hand, what is this thing? Why doesn't it appear elsewhere? Why aren't there more of these objects visible at Groom/Tonopah/etc? Groom's shipping and receiving for example is plainly visible on Google Earth with all sorts of parts and pieces laying around, yet there is no large circular object present anywhere.

So we're left with this: what is it, and why would it be out behind the old OXCART hangars? Why wouldn't we see it sitting elsewhere in other photos or multiple units if it were some common part? And if it were some sort of secret craft, why are we seeing it at all?

And then entirely from left field, let us not forget the OSI once went out of its way to convince a journalist the military had knowledge of an impending alien invasion, complete with classified documents, an alien language and the whole 9 yards. Maybe the Air Force wants us looking for flying saucers instead of its latest prototype? Just like they may want us scouring Groom Lake and ignoring TTR (which wasn't even added to Google Earth for years after Groom was well known and searchable)

And what about the 1989 photo of a disc shaped lake/mountain reflecting craft operating near Papoose? For some reason, the top part of the 2002 object reminds me of something and I haven't been able to put my finger on it quite yet. A zoom image of the 1989 craft? Something else? Hopefully I can remember

But is it reasonable to say this could be a craft of some origin (human or otherwise)? You bet

a reply to: JBurns

Unfortunately imagery of that area was somewhat sparse at the time, and even by combining multiple sources we are still looking at a gap of months and often years between re-images of Groom

That's a dead end then. I thought if the time between shots was short it would signify something.

The real interesting part is it doesn't show up anywhere else on the base before, during and after 06/06/2002 which lends credibility to the idea it could be inside/back inside one of those hangars.

Indeed, as a side clue. It's obviously something non natural, "man" made...and obviously not often exposed to view. If it's standard base equipment, it stands to reason there would be more sightings of it. More pics. Especially due to it's.."peculiar" shape on a sat pic.

I did label it a "craft" because I believe in the validity of circumstantial evidence. For instance, if someone finds a crowbar near a pryed open door it is reasonable to believe the crowbar was used to commit the act despite having only circumstantial evidence to form the belief. The rarity of the object (doesn't appear elsewhere/any other time at the base) combined with its location near a group of hangars thought to be unused are pretty convincing, but the fact an object matching this description was actually caught in a photo in 1989 makes it possible for an analysis beyond this one photo to be done

That's the thing this issue revolves around. In absence of hard core proof, what is reasonable to assume ? And as we are painfully aware, it differs for each of us when it comes to this subject.

Let's pose the question differently. Can we with absolute certainty claim that there are no aliens (intelligent extraterrestrials) in the universe, and if there are that they cant traverse the distances in ways we cant even think of today ?

Because that's the starting point for this discussion. Is it reasonable to assume that it's possible...somehow. If you start with only what we know today, then obviously no. But call me a romantic fool, I kinda think we are just an embrio in the womb, thinking this is it. The universe. Thinking we know sh**.

I just want to add I am not claiming this is an alien craft, a human made ARV, a human made experimental or even a craft. Skepticism is always good, and we shouldn't overlook the other part of the argument that says "it could also be, X Y or Z" I am not trying to mislead anybody

No disclaimer is necessary. You presented a case which is interesting. Certainly worth discussing.