Was Pearl Harbor a False Flag?

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: seagull

So you believe Japan could have fended off the Soviets in the late 1940's?

There is a vast difference in "the outcome was inevitable" and " it was going to be a cake walk".

a reply to: DorianSoran

...true enough.

However, for the purposes of this particular conversation?? A nuke is an atomic. Even though there are differences.

I'm just glad that it isn't a verbal conversation so I don't have to hear "nucular" haha

Both weapons are "nuclear". Both weapons rely on nuclear reactions. Fission is a nuclear process every much as fusion (which uses fission as a initiator for the fusion in weapon design). The weapons dropped on Japan were not "thermonuclear" , but they were nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Didn't say that. I disagreed with your "walk in the park" assessment.

The results of an invasion, whether by the US/Britain, or the Sovs, or both would have been a foregone conclusion.

However, not without a great deal of bloodshed.

Totally see exactly where you are coming from and you are right that I made an error with that walk in the park statement. Appologies for this. The Japanese were very willing to die for their cause and really believed they were right. Far more so than the average German or Italian. Was just considering the size of the Soviet armed forces in comparison with what Japan had in 1945 plus the massive industrial production, along with a hardness to figt tomthe death for an ideology just like those Japanese had.

I had a very good friend like in the late 80's blimey he was some character, used to wear shorts all the time even in the snow, his father had been a Scottish fisherman early 1900's who met his mother a jewess in Poland and brought her back to Britain. Anyway he was a professional British soldier pre WW2 and during it, he told me he'd fought them all from the SS in continental Europe the Chinese in the Korean war etc, said nothing compared to what he experienced fighting the Japanese army specifically the Imperial Guard wh he described as hell on Earth

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: seagull

So you believe Japan could have fended off the Soviets in the late 1940's?

There is a vast difference in "the outcome was inevitable" and " it was going to be a cake walk".

Yeah sure, I just explained the error in my thoughts to Seagull and appologised for this. No such thing for anyone as a cake walk back then when dealing with the Japanese military

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Ah, but the Soviets of the WWII variety had a HUGE army, alot of tactical aircraft, NO strategic aircraft, a crappy navy AND no gator navy to make the invasion happen. They were really geared for Europe and could not have performed the island hopping campaign the US did even if it was short

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Malisa

In May? Really.

Odd. My father was fighting on Okinawa at that particular time. So, too, were a couple of my mothers brothers...

The war was hardly over. There was still fighting going on in China. In SE Asia. Not to mention Okinawa.

Preparations were well underway for the whole scale invasion of the Home Islands in late '45, early '46. Operation Downfall was the name of the plan.

The war did not end until the bombs were dropped, the Soviet Union declared war, and invaded Manchuria. Then, and only then, did the Japanese accept the reality. Even with those three events, it took the direct intervention of Hirohito, then the emperor of Japan to prevent continued fighting.

So.. They were fighting in Japan, and where did your family grew up? the US?

So would you say that maybe, it was the US vs Japan at that point?

The war continued after the bombs were dropped, did you review history books outside the US at all? After what i posted? Or did you just kept going with the history you know about without verifying external sources?

The war was hardly over. There was still fighting going on in China. In SE Asia. Not to mention Okinawa.

Didn't i said that already?

Preparations were well underway for the whole scale invasion of the Home Islands in late '45, early '46. Operation Downfall was the name of the plan.

The war did not end until the bombs were dropped, the Soviet Union declared war, and invaded Manchuria.

As i said, once the bombs were dropped, the war continued... You seem to try to fit everything into a single event, which it was not

Then, and only then, did the Japanese accept the reality

As i said... but not immediately after the bombs where dropped, other things happened after that you somehow try to ignore or mix with the bombs event

Since you like history, you should also be aware of this, right?



I guess you never heard about V Day, as it had little to do with the US (but a lot at the same time) as you firmly believe

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Ah, but the Soviets of the WWII variety had a HUGE army, alot of tactical aircraft, NO strategic aircraft, a crappy navy AND no gator navy to make the invasion happen. They were really geared for Europe and could not have performed the island hopping campaign the US did even if it was short

Too right For sure the Soviets would have found it near on impossible in 1945 to launch the invasion. Maybe they would have waited a few years to gain the expertise and equipment to take on Japan, it's all fun to theorize on the what iffs back then. Your post to made me thing of modern day China too sort of the same position as the USSR back in 1945.

a reply to: JON666

Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

Hi JON666, dude I know you meant well, but you need a history lesson...

Hindenburg, it was hydrogen, not nitrogen, and the disaster took place in 1937, not long before, but still before WW2 took off with spades.

The USA had a monopoly on helium gas, and there was a law that prevented the USA from selling helium to a nation that might use it for military purposes.

This obviously ties in with the post WW1 peace treaty, and since Britain was bombed with airships during WW1, helium was a "not for sale" item to Germany.

The USA played around with airships, mainly the Navy did... big disaster in 1933 (73 dead) with the USS Akron, and earlier still with 1930 crash of airship R101 from the UK.. with many dead as well.

Germany was forced to use hydrogen.... as a lifting gas...

Whether USA is responsible or not is another matter... there is STILL the theory that the Hindenburg was sabotaged...?

FDR surely wanted/desired to save Uncle Joe.

IT would have been sooner if Churchill had not been successful with his "soft underbelly" strategy proposed to Russia, and delayed Normandy by quite some time.

Churchills soft underbelly BS was only to protect British interests in the middle east basically... and the soft underbelly turned into a real mess, not "soft" at all.

Pravdaseeker

Appropriately, it looks like not a single person has bought this guy's book, claiming Pearl Harbor was a "False Flag", designed to get us into World War II.

Ref: www.goodreads.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Why would they? The premise is laughable.

Did the US know something was coming? Oh, yes...that much was obvious. There was going to be a war in the Pacific.

The question was where would it start. There were many ideas, some silly enough to be absurd, others not so much. Pearl Harbor was one of the not-so-much's.

Panama was thought to be a target. Australia, I've heard mentioned. Kamchatka, though why I've no idea...maybe Port Arthur, possibly. Indonesia, for obvious reasons. SE Asia. India. The list is ginormous. Even the West Coast of the US was thought a possible target...

So the forest became impossible to see, because the trees got in the way.

It boiled down to what did Japan need to happen, in order for them to have unlimited access to oil, rubber, etc...? The US navy needed to "go away". Forever, preferably, but at least long enough to establish a defensive cordon to keep them away.

So, in hindsight, Pearl Harbor should have been a no-brainer. But...in many views, the Japanese were not capable of anything of that magnitude. Oops.

They were considered to be, at best, second rate. Reports of very capable aircraft operating over China were, in essence, ignored.

Add to that, a peacetime mindset, and you've the makings of a disaster.

Adm. Richardson, C in C of the Pacific Fleet, hated Pearl Harbor as a base for the Fleet. He much prefered San Diego. Saying so saw him removed from command, and replaced.

There were officers and civilian intel. folks who were awake, and caught on, but they were far too junior, and the "leaders" far too complacent... So...

Disaster. It was only fortune that kept it from being worse. Nagumo, the task force commander, was no fan of the attack, and called it off as soon as he could.

His reasons are good ones...if you're risk adverse. At the end of a very, very long logistical tether. He didn't know where the aircraft carriers were, and other missions awaited. So, no third wave. "Enterprise" wasn't discovered, as it might very well have been if the Japanese had hung around a bit longer.

No false flag...just sheer unadulterated bad luck, and almost willful blindness, coupled with a bit of bigotry.

a reply to: tulsi

www.amazon.com...

After reading this you would be in no doubt that not only was Pearl Harbour a FF but so much more.

It's the blueprint to FF attacks

ATS should have a membership test :

" what is a false flag " ?

needs to be a critical question - any that fail should be expunged

a reply to: ignorant_ape
www.falseflag.info...

The sinking of the Lusitania was a clear false flag perpetrated by Winston Churchill and the British Admiralty to draw America into the war. The blame should have been placed on Churchill's orders and not the German government.

Using documents gleaned from British, American, French, and Italian archives, Secret Agent 666 sensationally reveals that Crowley played a major role in the sinking of the Lusitania,

Pearl Harbour may not have been your typical FF but the attack was very suspect and the Americans knew it was coming, pretty sure they played for it.
Lot of money involved 8n wars, 5he rich get richer.

Hello everyone , i just signed up ! 😁 , i hope my answer will add a little bit to answering your question , from what i know the Dutch military intelligence (located in whats now Indonesia). intercepted Japanese communications, and forwarded that to Washington DC. warning them that when and where the attack was suppose to take place. Ofcourse any goverment can respond with ignorance at times. (despite Dutch neutrality, "we" knew a German invasion was imminent, and We are talking here about to the exact day and time even after it was Postponed, we were told again)

Anyways it seems that "allowing certain events to happen is the most Popular M.O.
in the case of Pearl harbour, im pretty certain that the U.S.A. Knew that they would be able to defeat Japanese. since they were well aware of their lack of natural resources needed to conduct "modern" warfare ,Japan was already fighting in China for a decade by that point and bought most raw materials from the United States.
Since the everyone in Europe was at war as well as the Japanese, i wouldnt be suprised that the U.S. felt it needed a war too, or they could risk falling behind in military technological development. (look what Germany started and ended with in a mere 5 year period).