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How do you Unite a fractured nation?

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posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

The only people dems are willing to unite with are those who will accept whatever they are told and not question anything. If you think for yourself and can see through the lies, dems have no use for you. You are a deplorable hateful bigot who does not belong in their country. The thing is - its not their country. They haven't figured that part out yet...




posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Maybe we shouldn't unit it. Maybe we should admit that different people have different ideas and people find a way not to get in each other's way.

We could start by not trying to force our ideals on day other. You have your pronouns, I have mine. And we each use the ones that we like best. I won't bring my gun into your home or business and you don't try to grab it when I'm in mine. You don't tell me what kind of sex ed my middle should have, and I will let you tell your kids whatever you want to tell them.

A little bit of distance and a lot more mutual respect.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:22 PM
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Wow, it's glorious to see what kind of conversation ATS is capable of. When I say ATS I mean it's members.

Here we are in the Mud Pit having one of the most civil and important conversations here.

This is where it starts. Talking to each other minus the venom is a powerful thing. People talking to each other, instead of at each other.

There was a time when I thought the Internet was a tool that would in the end unite us and make us listen to each other. I was so very wrong in that. We stopped talking to each other face to face and we all became characters on a screen and targets for each other since any need for civility went by the wayside. Free speech became a weapon instead of a tool to unite. Hate that used to be hidden out of shame, became normal in our daily conversations now had online.

Then top that off with politicians and political parties who by design, want us divided to control us and keep us from talking to each other and the scrutiny off them, so they can do as they wish from their lofty perches.

I watched a video last night of a woman who was likely an American in Hong Kong, tearing down posters put up by those protesting for freedom. She was lecturing them on how safety is more important than freedom.
Link


A Western woman clad in a T-shirt associated with pro-China thugs was videoed on Sunday (Sept. 22) ripping down posters and lecturing Hong Kong protesters by saying, "Safety is more important than freedom."


"Why don't the universities get involved instead of protesting? What a waste of time for everybody. You guys should be enjoying your Sunday."


"You guys value freedom more than safety." Then, in a line of reasoning similar to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), the woman says, "I think safety is more important than freedom."


I can't find the video to post, but her English was clearly American.

Here we have what appears to be an American woman in league with the Chinese Communist Party lecturing people that are risking their lives, fighting for the same things we take for granted. I find that very scary and even scarier is the fact that our own universities are promoting that mindset in our youth.

We need to start talking instead of shouting at each other folks. It's the only way we will get past this.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: DBCowboy

Maybe we shouldn't unit it. Maybe we should admit that different people have different ideas and people find a way not to get in each other's way.

We could start by not trying to force our ideals on day other. You have your pronouns, I have mine. And we each use the ones that we like best. I won't bring my gun into your home or business and you don't try to grab it when I'm in mine. You don't tell me what kind of sex ed my middle should have, and I will let you tell your kids whatever you want to tell them.

A little bit of distance and a lot more mutual respect.


Yeah, this is a tempting approach, but man does it speak poorly of ourselves if we take it. There is real value in having people with different traditions, intellectual ideas, mores and folkways living near you. Logically we know this.

It's the EGO that screws everybody. The need to be right. The need to be affirmed. Fear of a person who automatically (because of purely subjective cognizance ) different.

Unification can be done. Hell, Spock did it with Vulcans and Romulans, right?



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: DBCowboy

The only people dems are willing to unite with are those who will accept whatever they are told and not question anything. If you think for yourself and can see through the lies, dems have no use for you. You are a deplorable hateful bigot who does not belong in their country. The thing is - its not their country. They haven't figured that part out yet...


If you think one party is any less entrenched or hateful towards the other party, you have indeed drank the entire pitcher of Kool-Aid.

You are also lumping all people of a diverse group into one mindset wrongly. You are demonstrating the absurdity of the division this discussion is about.

Why? Do you think that will solve anything? Lead to a brighter future? Do you want a single party state?



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Im not sure how that would work here either.. But maybe something similar could be accomplished in a strict format? Like the debate forum.

My friends, family, and I used to play a game where we would argue for the other persons perspective on.. anything.

There was never preperation, and the only way you knew it was going down is if the other person would randomly state something that you knew they didnt believe, and likewise, knew you did. Then it was Game On.

There was never really a way to "win," though a person would immediately lose if they werent sincere in holding the position. Now, that certainly didnt mean there wasnt some fun Trolling involved, but the whole idea was to have FUN and.. Learn?

Looking back on it.. Its one of those things that when it was happening, you just didnt realize how profoundly formative and influential it was.

I do believe its something we need to "practice" at, especially in todays age. Both for personal learning and to set examples for onlookers. So many things now are just "end result nao, or else!"

Im pretty open that I believe in working towards universal healthcare as an ideal. I have my reasons for this, and am open about those too.

Note though, I call it an ideal. I know what it is, and Im able to consider that legislating this into policy because "end result nao!" is Bad. I will fervently fight against anything where the "cure is worse than the disease" (epic pun intended), even if I hold it as an ideal. And, I will tend to be outspoken about it because the ideal is demonized, sometimes irreparably, by the push for "end result nao!" As if its some bizarre monolithic thing that I NEED to approve of, regardless of cost or implementation.

It seems like many have completely forgotten nuance, or maybe even how to disagree without hate. Or, hell.. Im old enough now that maybe some in the younger generations never learned it at all.

The only way I see to bridge that gap is a framework where we can learn how to do it again. Weve built some very, very bad habits and breaking them might not be as easy as we think. But I get this feeling that its critically important, you know?



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 05:11 PM
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How do you Unite a fractured nation?





posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: DBCowboy

The only people dems are willing to unite with are those who will accept whatever they are told and not question anything. If you think for yourself and can see through the lies, dems have no use for you. You are a deplorable hateful bigot who does not belong in their country. The thing is - its not their country. They haven't figured that part out yet...


If you think one party is any less entrenched or hateful towards the other party, you have indeed drank the entire pitcher of Kool-Aid.

You are also lumping all people of a diverse group into one mindset wrongly. You are demonstrating the absurdity of the division this discussion is about.

Why? Do you think that will solve anything? Lead to a brighter future? Do you want a single party state?


You are quick to attribute all the dem hate to both parties. Which, I can't help but notice, does not deny nor condemn the dems actions of absolute hate. It was dems who shot at republicans gathered for a softball game after all. It is dems who openly call for harassment of republicans wherever they are. Look at the demonstrations and the patterns of violence. Its dems causing the problems more often than not. That is just fact. Sorry it flies in the face of your opinion.

It is you, sir, who has consumed the sugary beverage in question, not I. You fell for that lame excuse you are parroting - "republicans are just as bad as we are". The problem is that real people on the streets don't see that in their every day lives. I know a few die hard idiot democrats. They are so full of hate its ridiculous. I do not hate them the way they hate me. I do not hate them at all. I hate their ideology and the manner in which they assert themselves. But I do not hate them as people. They, on the other hand, speak very openly about their hate for Trump and anyone who agrees with him or voted for him.

The broad stroke you used does not match the words of real world democrats. Sorry, but the dems have the market cornered on hate. You have been brainwashed to believe its equal to justify more hate.

Both parties are guilty of wrongdoing, but hate - that belongs to the dems.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

How wonderful would it be if we brought that form of conversation into our school system. IMO, that would be one of the best ways to teach critical thought. Like a debate team where you could pick any of the hot PC/SJW topics and the greatest thing, there would have to be an opposite side debating points of view they didn't agree with but still needed to research for counter arguments.

Such a simple form of conversation could bring about great change. Bring out some hot banned books from the past with nothing really being taboo. In fact, the more taboo the better. The Bell Curve, Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, Talmud, The Manipulated Man, Electric Universe and many many others. In fact the majority of us could also learn a lot even in our old age : )



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555



They hate us for our freedom



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel



I know a few die hard idiot democrats.


A few, but all Democrats? Are you not lumping them all together and assuming they are all like the activists online posting, which is just a tiny portion of them.



I do not hate them at all. I hate their ideology


Is it possible that they also hate your ideology and that's why they say what they do?

The conversation is about how do the sides unite, not how do we keep making it worse.

I in fact do condemn those spewing the hate from both sides. As an Independent not loyal to any party, I view it from the outside in, so the view is different. No bias to cloud my view.

I tried the Democrats and found them lacking. I tried the Republicans and found them the same. Both trying to get rid of the other and both wanting complete control. Both being led by people who work hard to keep the hate going to keep the attention off of them and what they are doing, or not doing.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

Thanks for posting the video.

I think that people so far left they have become expats and joined in with the Chinese Communists is a very tiny subset of the Left.

My point was about the differences between people looking for freedom and a person who had that freedom and abandoned it, to try and deny it to others in the world. It was not meant to be a statement against Democrats, most of whom would be appalled by that also.

It is and example of the madness this division has led to.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

The direction that I usually use for her royal highness is
ignoring her.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

You are talking about people you don't know. I know these people in real life. I am not talking about meme posting trolls on the internet. They openly talk about how much they hate Trump and anyone who agrees with him or voted for him. No excuses, no misunderstandings. They HATE the people, not just the ideas.

Playing dumb games like saying they say the things they do because I hate their ideology is a waste of time. You have no idea if what you are saying is true or not. You are just fabricating scenarios in which dems are ok and republicans are not.

Yes, the subject of the thread is how to unite a fractured union. But that assumes it is even possible. When democrats say things like, "We can not be civil", or, "There will be no peace", exactly what part of that is unifying? More importantly, how are republicans supposed to unite with people who say things like that and back it up with actions?

Like I said the first time, dems don't want to unite with anyone who does not agree with them blindly and fully commit to whatever lunacy they perpetrate. In case you haven't noticed dems are fighting within their own ranks over the ridiculous things some of them are saying. They can't even unite with their own, let alone republicans.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam



My friends, family, and I used to play a game where we would argue for the other persons perspective on.. anything. There was never preperation, and the only way you knew it was going down is if the other person would randomly state something that you knew they didnt believe, and likewise, knew you did. Then it was Game On. There was never really a way to "win," though a person would immediately lose if they werent sincere in holding the position. Now, that certainly didnt mean there wasnt some fun Trolling involved, but the whole idea was to have FUN and.. Learn?


Very cool! that is the kind of game that has real benefit..should be made part of school curriculum.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

If you are seeking a genuine answer here and were not just asking a rhetorical question to further tighten the wagons - I'm happy to oblige.

I live in a house with several other adults. I am one of two left leaning people in the mix, the other being a gay male, my step-nephew ( if that's a thing - my sister's second husband's kid ) and he only has left leaning views about gay rights. His remaining views all mesh with the others here - self-described Libertarians who tend to lean fairly far to the right.

The way we coexist is pretty simple. We show each other respect even when it's tempting not to. We disagree on quite a few issues but we're decent enough to each other that we more often discover what we agree upon than argue over that which we don't.

This is why I rarely engage in these conversations these days. The rhetoric here doesn't at all match up with my real world experiences.

For example all the talk these days of this coming Civil War. Exactly how is that going to work? If anyone were to come into my neighborhood with the intent of pulling people out - for any reason - that party would run headlong into a very unified and resistant front. If these parties persisted and tried to sew division that resistance would likely escalate and keep escalating until the threat was removed.

It's easy to sit on the Internet and talk nonsense. It's quite another to gun down your liberal aunt... Or your gay kid... Or your best friends feminist wife.

So the direct answer to your question is this. Turn off the propaganda for awhile, refocus and remember that we're all people and, ultimately, we are all in this together.

All the rest will work out in time.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

No one will ride into your neighborhood and start shooting up their family members; that's true. That's not what I am expecting.

One group, like Antifa will hold a protest. Another group, like the Proud Boys will hold a counter protest. Someone on one side or the other will throw something and hurt someone. His friends will leap to his rescue and start attacking the first side. Today this is limited to the actual protest, but it will increase. As the anger heats up in the country, these violent groups gain power and members.

Soon the violence will indeed spill over into neighborhoods. The people you talk of, those who still have the ability to show each other respect, will be collateral damage, not participants. Is there one person in your area who is a little extreme? What will it take for them to choose sides in a violent confrontation? How long will it take their targets to find out where they live?

Do not underestimate the ability of the human animal to destroy. it is what we are best at.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

The problem is that we hear the rhetoric that people in real positions of power make about us -- bitter clingers, deplorables, etc.

People who claim there is no middle ground and stuff like that. People who say you bring a gun to a knife fight. People who waste no opportunity to call you racist, homophobe, denier, bigot, any other nasty name they can think of, etc., for the crime of disagreeing with them.

And these are people who were elected to positions of power spouting off like that. If that kind of talk was beyond tolerance for their constituents, then they wouldn't be there. Yet they are, so what are the people voting for them really thinking about people like us?

What are we supposed to think about it?

And yeah, you'd like to think your neighbors would stand in the way of anyone coming to take you away for what you think and believe and stand for, but cancel culture makes that tough. It can wreck people for making one tiny mistake ... whole lives ruined and destroyed for making one tiny off-color remark. People have families to think about. How eager are they really going to be to stand up for neighbors in the face of losing their own livelihoods, wrecking their families?

We live in frightening times, and I'm not ashamed to admit I am scared of where it's headed.


edit on 28-9-2019 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy
AN Alien invasion or major attack or event against a common enemy.



posted on Sep, 28 2019 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

In another thread, someone mentioned to me the concept of a civil war. He said it scared him, the idea of actual warfare, I am paraphrasing.

I replied, in all honesty, that the eventual fighting would be very narrow, only a small minority would actually ever fight.

My biggest fear would be, who would win.

There’s no guarantee that the good guys win.



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