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How do you Unite a fractured nation?

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posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Total war is what it takes to win because it breaks a society. The problem is that Sherman did it to his people who had been and were going to be his fellow countrymen.

That's why the legacy of the Civil War is so ugly in so many ways, and why we really don't want another one.

These are the kinds of wounds that will be opened, and this is why it won't be over easily or quickly.




posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: harold223



Hypothetically speaking, what if the majority (say... 51%) democratically votes for socialism. Are you saying that that should not be allowed, even if it is what people vote for?


Well that depends on what you mean. What do they vote for? A socialist program (say, government run healthcare)? Or a full overhaul of the US government to meet the requirements of implementing full on socialist principles?



See that's what I have ben ranting about on here for months. A government run health program is not socialist. Government run infrastructure is not socialist. Socialism is where all enterprise across the entire economic spectrum comes under social ownership (Like the State or people committee which is just another form of government). Government run programs like education, health, transport, utilities. These are just Social Democratic Capitalist policies. No-one in the US is advocating Socialism under its traditional definition, even the ones who say that are lol.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:39 AM
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I just find it strange and somewhat suspicious that elections/opinions are so radically opposed by such close numbers of people. I mean, its not uncommon for elections to be 49%-to51% or the like...are we really divided so neatly in two, and so brutally?



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: harold223

A government run health care program is a socialist program. It may not be full on 'socialism' but it is the government taking over the means of production in a large sector of the economy.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:49 AM
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Here's a clue, that was left for us as a light to guide our way forward;


it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another


May more minds absorb it's wisdom and follow that advise, left behind for all to see.

Today everything has become political, literally.

It's time to step away from that divisive trap, and remember what binds us as a Nation. It's not our differences that make us weak those differences are what makes us stronger.

Set aside the preconceived notions forced upon you, and see objectively for ones self.

Don't blindly follow and be lead like a sheep, but be that free thinking individual who goes their own way. It's your path.


Remember government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem, is today literally saying politics is not the solution to our problem, politics is the problem.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: harold223

If the entire sector of the economy is taken over by government with no alternative, then it is socialist. Our school system is nearly 100% socialist with next to no recourse or choice for most families unless you happen to be wealthy enough to be able to afford pulling your children out of the system one way or another even as you are mandated to pay for it.

In other words, you pay for a system and then *if* you are rich enough to pay for whatever alternative exists, you can enjoy the freedom to pursue it.

In the education system, those alternatives are not cheap because they are few and far in between. I have a son with specific learning disability. There are specialized schools that could address his issues within two to three years, maybe four, of concentrated and targeted education, but because the public system does not do this and because such schools are 100% private and few and far in between, we would have to be wealthy enough to afford $24,000/year in tuition to send him to one.

Some states that offer vouchers and choice systems would allow us the freedom to send him to that school because their contributions would cover about enough for us, but most states don't do that. Thus, without uprooting and moving, our son is trapped in the socialist education system with no recourse, and I am not qualified to homeschool in that style of program.

Allowing the government to 100% take over all of health care would result in similar lack of freedom and choice for people who need it in similar ways. If the government system does not work for you in some way, you would have to hope you have enough wealth to be able to escape the system, assuming, of course, the system does not make it illegal to do so ... sort of like it's illegal for families to claim their children live where they don't to try to get them into better schools instead of being trapped into failing neighborhood ones.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

One of the major reasons why the South lost the War of Northern Aggression was General Robert E. Lee. He believed that the war was wrong and that his opponent was not also his enemy. General Lee was far too soft on Union soldiers whom he captured... much, much softer than the Union was on Confederate soldiers. He refused to allow those under him to wipe out entire battalions from the Union on multiple occasions. I don't think he ever really considered it a war as much as a necessity of protecting oneself from those who were countrymen. He was an awesome military commander, but had a soft heart.

I seriously doubt we'll make that mistake again. More likely, many will remember the war criminal Sherman and just how vicious the enemy can be given the chance, countrymen or no. The burnings of Savannah and Atlanta are still etched into the culture deeply.

That is a scary thought.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:20 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: harold223

A government run health care program is a socialist program. It may not be full on 'socialism' but it is the government taking over the means of production in a large sector of the economy.


It is a "Social Democratic" policy within a society that is at its core, Capitalist. Sweden is Capitalist, so is Australia, UK etc yet they all have universal healthcare and government owned infrastructure. Socialism is when it is structural across the entire core of the economy. Private enterprise is not allowed under Socialism. No western country currently has anything close to Socialism. Social Democratic policies within capitalism is not Socialism.
edit on 30-9-2019 by harold223 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: harold223
Right now, at this very moment, we have a corrupt capitalist system. I think you'd agree.

If we just change the system to say, socialism, then we'd end up with a corrupt socialist system.

Just changing the system won't eliminate the corrupt people within it.

And why in the world would anyone want to give the corrupt people more power, authority, control?



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

we can Unite our fractured nation by using our taxes for our country not for another country called Israel, we can Unite our fractured nation by demoting racism and promoting humanity, we can Unite our fractured nation by stopping NRA and The ZIONIST LOBBIES



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:25 AM
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originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: harold223

A government run health care program is a socialist program. It may not be full on 'socialism' but it is the government taking over the means of production in a large sector of the economy.


It is a "Social Democratic" policy within a society that is at its core, Capitalist. Sweden is Capitalist, so is Australia, UK etc yet they all have universal healthcare and government owned infrastructure. Socialism is when it is structural across the entire core of the economy. Private enterprise is not allowed under Socialism. No western country currently has anything close to Socialism. Social Democratic policies within capitalism is not Socialism.


Call it whatever you have to in order to make yourself feel better about it. It's still socialist.

The only Democratic part of it is that you voted your freedom of choice away when it started.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: harold223
Right now, at this very moment, we have a corrupt capitalist system. I think you'd agree.

If we just change the system to say, socialism, then we'd end up with a corrupt socialist system.

Just changing the system won't eliminate the corrupt people within it.

And why in the world would anyone want to give the corrupt people more power, authority, control?


I do agree re: corruption. What I am trying to get across is the continual misunderstanding of what socialism is on this site. I don't live in the US so am speaking as an outsider. I'm not necessarily advocating socialism for the US.

Public ownership of Education, health and utilities is not socialism because these are not ownership of the means of production. Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production for the purposes of profit. Not necessarily the private ownership of social services such as health and education. Health and education are not "means of production" in the traditional industrial capitalist sense.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: wantsome

Well, now I understand why you were called Yankee...

TheRedneck
In all seriousness I don't know squat about the civil war. I cheated my way through history class that year in high school. Doesn't matter anyway our history books are probably different then yours.

What I don't get is why the south always votes red. Every time the republicans get control in my state they screw everyone. Our last republican governor was a real piece of work.

He had us vote if we wanted to pay a gas tax at the pump. The people of the state voted no. So he slapped tax on gasoline coming in from the refineries.

He was letting Nestle pump as much water as they wanted out of the ground to bottle. He was only charging them $200 a year. I'm surrounded by the great lakes and my water bill is higher then Nestle pumping 500 gallons a minute. My water bill is higher then people in Arizona.

We have the worst auto insurance rates in the nation because republicans are writing all the laws in their favor.

Our governor poisoned the entire city of Flint with lead because he was trying to cut corners on cost's. Meanwhile he gave the corporations billions in tax cuts.

We have the worst roads in the country because the corporations tare them up with their trucks yet he expects us to pay for it.

Oh and he also slapped a tax on people collecting pensions.

I don't know about republicans in the south but the ones up here screw us every chance they get.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: harold223

But it is public ownership of the means of production as both of those things are services and by necessity, when those sectors of the economy become socialized, their principle employees (health care providers and education providers and support staff for both) become government employees. Working for the government more or less makes you government owned.

Not only that but the education buildings in this country are public buildings, build, owned, operated, by government.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: wantsome


In all seriousness I don't know squat about the civil war. I cheated my way through history class that year in high school. Doesn't matter anyway our history books are probably different then yours.

You really should study up on it then. Many of our present issues can be traced back to the War of Northern Aggression.

We probably use the same history books, but in our case we have reminders still standing to the atrocities that occurred. Only a few miles from me is an old plantation house, the only structure still standing in the entire county that pre-dates the war. Get that? Every other structure was burned to the ground. Every single one. Some were burned to the ground with women and children inside. Thankfully, the family that owns that old place understands its historical significance and have taken pains to maintain it in as close to its original condition as possible. You can still see holes in the brick from musket fire during the war.

That's why you were called Yankee. You demonstrated an uncaring indifference to a horrific time in our collective past. That's quite disrespectful to those who live here. It would be about as bad as dismissing the Trail of Tears (which also runs not far from me) or the annual bike ride in memory of those who perished.

One cannot disrespect a people and then expect that people to respect them.


What I don't get is why the south always votes red. Every time the republicans get control in my state they screw everyone. Our last republican governor was a real piece of work.

The Republicans are not perfect, but we got tired of being held back by the Democrats. It wasn't that long ago that the South was solid Democrat. Most people here are actually Independents, but they vote for the Republicans because of policies.

Kay Ivey has done pretty good as Governor... our economy is expanding, taxes are not rising nearly as fast as they could be, and the cost of living and sense of culture is maintained where we like it. Contrast that to the last Republican Governor, Bob Bentley, and you are looking at someone who wanted to raise taxes, claim an expanding economy when it really wasn't, and had little to no respect for the people. We threw him out.

It's not the party we vote for; it's the person and the policies. If the Democrats would stop with the identity politics and the corruption, they might have a chance here.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: wantsome

A lot of Michigan's problems, like Flint's water, were bigger than a one-term Republican governor. For instance, he didn't build Flint with lead piping. That happened decades ago, and no group of politicians since has done jack squat at any level (state, county, municipal) to address it -- Democrat or Republican. It was his bad luck to be the one in office when it came to a head.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: harold223

But it is public ownership of the means of production as both of those things are services and by necessity, when those sectors of the economy become socialized, their principle employees (health care providers and education providers and support staff for both) become government employees. Working for the government more or less makes you government owned.

Not only that but the education buildings in this country are public buildings, build, owned, operated, by government.


Because they are essential services that for the benefit of society are best not run for profit. This is called "Social Democratic Policy". I study political science and international relations. I do know what I am talking about.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: harold223

But it is public ownership of the means of production as both of those things are services and by necessity, when those sectors of the economy become socialized, their principle employees (health care providers and education providers and support staff for both) become government employees. Working for the government more or less makes you government owned.

Not only that but the education buildings in this country are public buildings, build, owned, operated, by government.


Because they are essential services that for the benefit of society are best not run for profit. This is called "Social Democratic Policy". I study political science and international relations. I do know what I am talking about.


So it is best for society when half of the public school districts start turning out about a 50% rate of functionally illiterate graduate? Because that's where all too many of our public run school districts are at these days.

I guess it is best for society if not many of our kids graduate learning how to read, and even most of the ones who go on to university spend time in remediation picking up knowledge they should have learned in high school so they have even a small chance to thriving in college.

It is socialism and it's failing like it always does whether you con yourself into calling Social Democratic or not.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: olaru12
I do not think you can sit this one out. Fence riding not possible. With total anarchy comes maleficent individuals to a neighborhood near you. I plan to stand my ground and protect my home and family.

The 64 thousand dollar question is where will the military stand. With the people and the Constitution or the globalists and Marxism. I hope they choose wisely and stick with the Constitution and the people not globalist dictates. The excuse of I was following orders will not stand when the dust settles. God bless America and our wonderful Republic.

After the dust settles, and I am sure we patriots will rule the day, the country needs to be divided out. New York will be cleansed out and all leftest Marxists be shipped to the west coast. Same goes for all the east coast. California, Oregon and Washington State will be walled off along with the Mexico border. Leave them there to their own demise. Those that stay behind should live and let live but ALTERING OR ATTEMPTING TO CRASH OUR CONSTITUTION WILL BE DELT WITH BY EXPULSION OR DEATH. This globalist/Marxist/ Luciferian system will NEVER BE ALLOWED.



posted on Sep, 30 2019 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: harold223

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: harold223

But it is public ownership of the means of production as both of those things are services and by necessity, when those sectors of the economy become socialized, their principle employees (health care providers and education providers and support staff for both) become government employees. Working for the government more or less makes you government owned.

Not only that but the education buildings in this country are public buildings, build, owned, operated, by government.



Because they are essential services that for the benefit of society are best not run for profit. This is called "Social Democratic Policy". I study political science and international relations. I do know what I am talking about.


So it is best for society when half of the public school districts start turning out about a 50% rate of functionally illiterate graduate? Because that's where all too many of our public run school districts are at these days.

I guess it is best for society if not many of our kids graduate learning how to read, and even most of the ones who go on to university spend time in remediation picking up knowledge they should have learned in high school so they have even a small chance to thriving in college.

It is socialism and it's failing like it always does whether you con yourself into calling Social Democratic or not.


This is straight out of the academic textbooks mate, not my opinion.
edit on 30-9-2019 by harold223 because: (no reason given)



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