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So the border wall..

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posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 08:47 AM
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This isn't about the right or the left, or even the costs, but just about the theory and practice of how it's been constructed.

I'm not an engineer, but I just checked this video www.youtube.com... and if this is the how the wall will be constructed over 2000 miles, how much of a problem is it to get past it in reality? It does look quite decent and a lot has been made of not being able to go over it (got a ladder anyone..?) or underneath it (cartel drug tunnels anyone..?) but I'm not going there..so if we just look at going through it, what is stopping people from just cutting the bars with a torch and walking though it?

We are told there are sensors, but if the sensors are tripped, surely you'd still get a lot of people through before the police can get there. Especially as some of it is surely quite difficult to get to quickly.

But, if we concentrate on trying get around that vibration alarm, there has to be some base level where the alarm isn't tripped. Strong winds etc and 30ft high and exposed to the elements walls are bound to vibrate to some degree. That means there is a tipping point, so if you could brace one of the bars, couldn't you use a torch to just cut one? If you cut it close to the floor or if you cut it 4ft up, what is the reduction in vibration? Is it enough to stop the alarm being tripped? Because if it is possible to just cut one of those bars without setting an alarm off..that does make the wall pretty pointless.

Again, not trying to start a political fight, just looking at this objectively and scientifically.




posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 08:56 AM
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The wall is a deterrent. Locks on your house are a deterrent. The cameras and sensors can make it so people who come up to it are detected, that is a lot better than nothing at all there.

People can figure a way to get by obstacles, a simple catapult will get one over a wall. Without sensors, ladders would line the walls and make it useless. at fifty miles an hour, someone can be there in fifteen minutes if the sensor is tripped from a station ten miles away. A drone can be dispatched to track those who went over the wall if they knew of it.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: bluesilver

This is all about a point of view.
The Berlin Wall wasn't exactly impossible to climb over. It wasn't all that imposing.
But it worked really well.

The reason it worked was because it was guarded.
Unless this wall is patrolled to a reasonable degree it will not stop illegals.
It will probably slow the flow but not stop.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
The wall is a deterrent. Locks on your house are a deterrent. The cameras and sensors can make it so people who come up to it are detected, that is a lot better than nothing at all there.

People can figure a way to get by obstacles, a simple catapult will get one over a wall. Without sensors, ladders would line the walls and make it useless. at fifty miles an hour, someone can be there in fifteen minutes if the sensor is tripped from a station ten miles away. A drone can be dispatched to track those who went over the wall if they knew of it.


How much of a deterrent is it if all you need to get past it is a blowtorch?



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: bluesilver

This is all about a point of view.
The Berlin Wall wasn't exactly impossible to climb over. It wasn't all that imposing.
But it worked really well.

The reason it worked was because it was guarded.
Unless this wall is patrolled to a reasonable degree it will not stop illegals.
It will probably slow the flow but not stop.


It worked well because like you say, it had armed guards all the way along it and I'm not sure how much restraint they would have had. You get the feeling that there was zero tolerance.. which is different to this wall. All that happens is you get arrested and you can try again.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:04 AM
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I'm sure the engineers factored in several scenarios when constructing the wall.

I'm sure at least one engineer brought up the scenario involving the evil villain known as El Flamo, the backpack torch wielding hombre that roams the northern mexican border.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: bluesilver

originally posted by: rickymouse
The wall is a deterrent. Locks on your house are a deterrent. The cameras and sensors can make it so people who come up to it are detected, that is a lot better than nothing at all there.

People can figure a way to get by obstacles, a simple catapult will get one over a wall. Without sensors, ladders would line the walls and make it useless. at fifty miles an hour, someone can be there in fifteen minutes if the sensor is tripped from a station ten miles away. A drone can be dispatched to track those who went over the wall if they knew of it.


How much of a deterrent is it if all you need to get past it is a blowtorch?


Do you have any idea how long it would take someone to make a TWO cuts with a blow torch in order to remove a section of the wall? What is your suggestion? I'm sorry but if someone comes up to the American Border with a powerful enough blowtorch, spend enough time, has enough fuel with him, and never gets caught, then hell, he deserves to be here, make that man an engineer!

If it's a Vast Group of people, such as a drug cartel, with machinery at our border, I suspect they would get detected fairly easily.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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Well, from the look of it, it is going to take a couple minutes at least to cut through it, at least twice to get a person through there.
Might some get through? Sure.

But compared to the number of people walking on in right now?

A drop in the bucket.

And with the sensors, and I'm sure drones and patrols, it will be much better than nothing.

OH, and I can't tell from the video, but are they connected at the top? Because if not, when you cut that with a blowtorch, you or your equipment are probably going to get squished, right?
edit on 27-9-2019 by chiefsmom because: addition



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: bluesilver

Pretty big deterrent since one would need to drag the torch and the tanks across the desert. I thought I saw somewhere that they are filled with concrete after installation but not sure. They do extend underground as well. The deterring factors of slowing individuals down enough for rapid response teams of border patrol agents to react is what deterrents are for.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: bluesilver

Can't think of a portable rig that could be carried without a truck that would cut through that thick metal of the border fence that wouldn't run out of fuel before completing the cuts necessary to take out a piece of it. You would need a truck rig and even then it would take quite a bit of time. Pretty sure they'd get caught before completing the first cut. Cutting with a torch isn't as fast as what movies make it seem.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse

I think they call it "keeping honest people honest".



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: bluesilver

The border wall, that's not really a wall, never mind a logistical impossibility and financial black hole.

Good Luck with that.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: bluesilver

The border wall, that's not really a wall, never mind a logistical impossibility and financial black hole.

Good Luck with that.


How is it not a wall?



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:56 AM
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Possible solution for the blowtorch problem. Fill the posts with gasoline.

It could serve a double purpose. The gasoline could be considered part of the strategic reserve.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: bluesilver

originally posted by: rickymouse
The wall is a deterrent. Locks on your house are a deterrent. The cameras and sensors can make it so people who come up to it are detected, that is a lot better than nothing at all there.

People can figure a way to get by obstacles, a simple catapult will get one over a wall. Without sensors, ladders would line the walls and make it useless. at fifty miles an hour, someone can be there in fifteen minutes if the sensor is tripped from a station ten miles away. A drone can be dispatched to track those who went over the wall if they knew of it.


How much of a deterrent is it if all you need to get past it is a blowtorch?


To cut through that wall with an acetylene torch will take twenty minutes. If they get there quickly, someone can go weld it up and spray it with paint and it will be fixed in a few hours. That repair crew will be busy for the first year, but eventually, the people sneaking over will learn they will get caught. All that needs to happen is for the border patrol to shoot a few argumentive people trying to breach the wall and the flow of people trying to break into the country illegally will go way down.

What is the alternative to building the wall? We cannot just let people who may be a threat to our society walk across without trying to stop them. They have automatic motion sensing machine guns they can mount along the border to shoot anything that comes in the field I suppose. Now that I would not approve of. How about drones with guns on them....I would not want to see that either.
edit on 27-9-2019 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: MisterSpock

Put it this way if will never span the entirety of the border.

Your nation will go bankrupt, nevermind run out of concrete and Steel first.

Some people have done the calculations and cost mate it's like near enough astronomical.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: bluesilver

originally posted by: rickymouse
The wall is a deterrent. Locks on your house are a deterrent. The cameras and sensors can make it so people who come up to it are detected, that is a lot better than nothing at all there.

People can figure a way to get by obstacles, a simple catapult will get one over a wall. Without sensors, ladders would line the walls and make it useless. at fifty miles an hour, someone can be there in fifteen minutes if the sensor is tripped from a station ten miles away. A drone can be dispatched to track those who went over the wall if they knew of it.


How much of a deterrent is it if all you need to get past it is a blowtorch?


To cut through that wall with an acetylene torch will take twenty minutes. If they get there quickly, someone can go weld it up and spray it with paint and it will be fixed in a few hours. That repair crew will be busy for the first year, but eventually, the people sneaking over will learn they will get caught. All that needs to happen is for the border patrol to shoot a few argumentive people trying to breach the wall and the flow of people trying to break into the country illegally will go way down.

What is the alternative to building the wall? We cannot just let people who may be a threat to our society walk across without trying to stop them. They have automatic motion sensing machine guns they can mount along the border to shoot anything that comes in the field I suppose. Now that I would not approve of. How about drones with guns on them....I would not want to see that either.


I understand that it is better to have something rather than nothing (I don't think many people truly want an open border) but the question would then be, is this the most cost effective way of achieving that control? I don't want to derail my own thread by going off at a tangent though. I suppose my thought is that as a species, we are quite resourceful and determined when needed and I'm really not sure that this will work ENOUGH to justify the expense. As has been mentioned many times, drugs can be flown in by plane or drones and many people can fly in on visas and stay illegally.

Its is a difficult situation and complex, but like I say, we are pretty resourceful when needed to overcome things and often low tech solutions can be highly successful and when you compare that to the vast costs.. you hope that there isn't a flaw in their designs. A blow torch in some remote area of the wall, with a segment able to be carefully removed and replaced back in at will, could result in 2000 miles of (vastly expensive) wall being pointless.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MisterSpock

Put it this way if will never span the entirety of the border.

Your nation will go bankrupt, nevermind run out of concrete and Steel first.

Some people have done the calculations and cost mate it's like near enough astronomical.


Lmao... "Some people have done calculations" great... here in America, we follow engineers and contractors numbers not whomever biased source you are getting your information from. The costs won't be astronomical.... for US ….
and the American Steel Industry is happy to provide the amount of steel needed, and our Economy will thank them for it.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Good luck then.

Fire away, i guess its all good.

The rest of the world will Lmao including Mexico.



posted on Sep, 27 2019 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Good luck then.

Fire away, i guess its all good.

The rest of the world will Lmao including Mexico.


You don't represent the rest of the world, regardless of how much your media tells you differently


But thanks for your concern! We seem to be getting along with the rest of the world just fine, and if us building a wall makes people laugh, then I'm happy we can spread joy while securing our border.



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