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Jesus' Brothers

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posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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There is a passage in either the gospel of Thomas or the Acts of thomas
where Jesus appears to a young man and says that Thomas is his Twin Brother.

history says that Thomas went east, founding the Thomasine church and
that James traveled to Gaul and returned. Then was stoned CA. 64 ad.

here is a thought. The RCC church does not want Jesus to have any Brothers
because he truly was of the Davidic line with a claim to the throne.
with all the noise they raise when the subject of a line of decendants directly
from Jesus, would it be any less from his brothers? They would still be decendents of Jesus' line and might also have possesion of documents or
traditions of what really happened 2000 yrs ago that contradict the RCC
version.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by stalkingwolf]




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "brothers James & Thomas the Twin"



That is very interesting theory, you know taking in consideration that the bible redactors had problems keeping their stories in line, because contradictions, perhaps it may be possible.

But because we know that scribes omitted information and many of the Jewish documents were burn by the time of Constantino, we will never know.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 07:54 AM
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I sure would have liked to get a look inside the library at Alexandria before it
burned. There are a few other legended libraries I would like to get a look at.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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I realise that this is a bit late to mention this, however I just found this thread...

So I hope I'm not out of line with this:



John 19:25-Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas*, and Mary Magdalene.


I make it out to mean that there were 4 women at the cross, Not three;

1) his mother,
2) his mother's sister,
3) Mary the [wife] of Cleophas
4) Mary Magdalene.

Just an oppinion - and you know what they say about opinions....



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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if you read everything you can get your hands on about the historical Jesus then it's really hard to believe much of anything the RCC has to say about the life of Jesus the man. And, please don't call him Jesus of Nazereth - there was no such town during his lifetime.

This mystical, spiritual, mythological, legendary Jesus Christ that the RCC have created is just something you have to take on faith because there's so little to back it up.

And, in case you haven't already guessed, I believe next to none of the fabrications that have come out of the RCC's leadership.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Quote: "And, please don't call him Jesus of Nazareth - there was no such town during his lifetime."

Yeah that is just the Tip of the Iceberg when it comes to RCC's Manipulation of the Jesus story! It is Jesus the NAZOREAN BTW - as in the NAZOREAN Tribe of JEWs who were know for their Trademark Long Hair Styles! I can never forgive the RCC for taking the Life story of this Amazing RABBI - who was so ahead of his time - who broke through so much Bias & Racism & Bigotry & Discrimination at the time! The RCC TOTALLY IGNORES his Teachings & concentrates on Fairy Tales of his "Virgin Birth" & "Resurrection" & Suffering Painful Torture/Crucifixion/Death - they have made a MOCKERY of him! Maybe this is why you have so many Imbeciles running around in the World calling themselves "Christians" - how embarrassing!

If you want to worship a Pagan Sun God with a Jesus Christ mask on - that is fine by me - go ahead knock yourself out - but please don't pretend that you are Worshiping the Man called YEHSHUAH OR the "One God" of the Jews -(Take a look at the Nicene Creed) This is getting a little Ridiculous no?

P.S. Mary Magdalene was NOT a Whore - she was APOSTLE #1 (there take that RCC) & it does not say anywhere in the Bible to Worship the Pope - Catholics should try to get around to actually reading the Bible one of these days!


[edit on 12-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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Sigh*

Brothers and sisters can also mean, brothers and sisters ( followers ) in the word of Christ, Allah, or any religion...


*Sigh*

The term "Brother" or "Sister" can also mean follower of the same belief...

*Sigh*




posted on May, 1 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Sigh*

Brothers and sisters can also mean, brothers and sisters ( followers ) in the word of Christ, Allah, or any religion...


*Sigh*

The term "Brother" or "Sister" can also mean follower of the same belief...

*Sigh*



First no under Jewish tradition in the ancient language Brethren was indeed family members.

Translations change the meaning of the word.

You would be surprised of how many ancient words meaning were change during translations changing the meaning of complete sentences.



[edit on 1-5-2005 by marg6043]



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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In another controversial source, The Urantia book, it give details of him having a sister named Ruth in which he was a real confidant to her.
Not saying I believe this, but there is no way to deny the sources of this book as it was delivered anonymously in 1955 on platinum plates to be published.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Jesus was BORN - i.e. He came out of his mother JUST like the rest of us.
She and her husband were a NORMAL family. Just because they had Jesus, doesn't mean they can't have more children. It says it loud and clear in the bible. He is the one who was devoted to God's work etc etc - that doesn't mean he was the only child of Mary. geeesh, i have no patience for blind ignorance thats created on purpose by stupidity and hypocrisy. Its quite saddening that there are so many in this world who have no open mind at ALL. How Jesus and God pity them, I'm sure.

I do, however, pray that ONE day - people will realise that the RCC doctrine is fact in part (The basics of love, be kind to thy neighbour etc etc) but the rest of it is BURIED in BS created by the heirachy for power.

JMO.
Cheers



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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There are those that believe there was no actual person called Jesus Christ. Instead He is made up two twins - Judas Khrestus and Rabbi Jesus - hence conflicting sentiments attributed to the one man (as per the "turn the other cheek" and "bringing fire and sword" or words to that effect previously posted). See the writings of Tony Bushby (and others) if you want to see "evidence" of this. Be warned, he takes it a lot further than that. Pretty interesting stuff. Wait till you get to the bit about Mary having plenty of kids by 3 different fathers, none of them particularly omnipotent.

Also am I right in assuming the scriptures from the New Testament quoted above are from the King James Bible? Once again a case of history being written to fit the "official" version. Too many questions the RCC won't or can't answer for them to be an authority on anything but their own versions of it all. The bible in its present form is more a work of fiction, even if the values it expounds are "good".

Look into the beginnings of the church and it is filled with inconsistencies. A history of degenerate, decadent popes (agreed maybe not in such recent times), corruptions, arrogance and propoganda. Check out where the first popes came from, initially there were more than one.

Chances are the Catholic church will not be around that much longer anyway:
-Malachy and his prophesies, which the RCC itself seems to believe in.
-falling congregations
-falling numbers of preists
-falling confidence in the ones they do have due to so many sexual abuse cases and allegations
-yada yada yada

These are my perceptions rather than something I will provide a multitude of links on, but the links are out there for all to find. The question is whether or not to accept them.

I nearly didn't post this, have discussed this very thing with "persons of faith" in the past and have found that "Faith" is the "one trump card to rule them all" so mostly the discussions were pointless. More power to them I say, people are more than welcome to have their own opinions on it. I am just putting forward some of mine.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
If you analyze this verses from the bible itself it tells you that she indeed had more children but due to the lack of importance in the eyes of the church it was totally by pass, but the church writers because it would not have look good to have others like the “Christ” or sharing the same blood of the “son of god”

Matthew 1:24-25
"Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him HIS WIFE:

And knew her not Until she had brought forth her firstborn Son: and he called His name, Jesus!"

Thanks, marg6043. You had a nice selection to pick from. Why has everybody missed the word "FIRSTBORN" in the quote above? I have always believed that Mary had other children, whose father was Joseph. These would have been half-siblings to the one called Jesus.
Being Christian, I believe. Not being Catholic, I I see no reason to accept all of their doctrines.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 02:12 AM
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I think it's obvious that these were true brother's of Jesus, children of Mary and Joseph.

The Matthew quote is compelling, and as said before the quote about a sister and another Mary refers to two different people.



[edit on 5/2/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 04:51 AM
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At this Forum,I notice almost daily new topics on JC,the Testaments and
his Church.The discussions have no end on all sort of ridiculeous details
about this last-in-line savior god,who's existence was noticed by nobody
in his supposed life-time;his story was fabricated (badly) in the 4-th cen-
tury when he also was declared to be a "god":enough for most of you all
to almost fight about the most silliest things as proposed in the "holy writ".
Plse get grown up and at least visit i.e.following website to clear up your
minds a little bit and throw your bibles in the waste bucket where they
surely belong.
www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Baloria



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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If one reads the writings of Matthew Jesus did have several brothers and sisters. I wish I had the list, however I know Peter was included in the group. In fact, at least within Matthew there is no mention of Mary being a virgin. Just that she was "with the Holy Ghost", and for Joseph not to be concerned with her pregnancy.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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nowhere however do i recall any discussion of his brothers James, Thomas the Twin, or Jude/Judas.
Did they marry?
Did they have children?
Are there any records?


There is a record of the grandchildren of Jude being arrested by the Romans and brought before Domitian, who had ordered the death of all members of the Davidic line. The story was found in Hegesippus by Eusebius of Caesarea, who repeats the story in his Church History, book 3, ch. 19-20:

But when this same Domitian had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude , on the ground that they were of the lineage of David and were related to Christ himself. Hegesippus relates these facts in the following words.

1. “Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord’s brother according to the flesh.720

2. Information was given that they belonged to the family of David, and they were brought to the Emperor Domitian by the Evocatus.721 For Domitian feared the com149ing of Christ as Herod also had feared it. And he asked them if they were descendants of David, and they confessed that they were. Then he asked them how much property they had, or how much money they owned. And both of them answered that they had only nine thousand denarii,722 half of which belonged to each of them;

4. and this property did not consist of silver, but of a piece of land which contained only thirty-nine acres, and from which they raised their taxes723 and supported themselves by their own labor.”724

5. Then they showed their hands, exhibiting the hardness of their bodies and the callousness produced upon their hands by continuous toil as evidence of their own labor.

6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.

7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.

8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses725 and were also relatives of the Lord.726 And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan. These things are related by Hegesippus.

You can find the text online:

www.ccel.org...

All the best,

Roger Pearse
(Edited to add ch. 19)

[edit on 2/5/2005 by roger_pearse]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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Based on my reading of the New Testament, it does seem that these are younger brothers of Jesus. As I see it, when Jesus was 'stirring up trouble' they were packed around their mother, perhaps asking her not to worry and trying to take care of the family. I think they were shocked, afraid he'd be executed, and tried to lay low in the height of turmoil hoping for the best. Just an impression I get. What this has to do with who Jesus was or what he said I'll never know. Kinda looks like someone is trying to dig up tabloid stuff if you ask me. Enjoy the soap opera all....


Pray, train, study.
God bless.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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John 19:25-Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, *and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas*, and Mary Magdalene.

Jesus' "siblings" where actually the children of this Mary.

Netchicken; WHY whould jesus entrust his mother to someone if she already had people to look after her?


as has been stated I also believe this passage refers to 4 people not three.
the punctuation alone would seem to indicate this,

His Mother ( comma also can be read as STOP as in telegram style)
His Mothers Sister stop
Mary the Wife of Cleophas stop
Mary Magdalene END.

There is also a theory that the name mary or Miriam was a Title or designator
of status given to the leader of the Virgins of the Temple or another " priestess " sect from the Temple of Capernaum.

It is recorded in the Nag Hammadi that Mary the Mother grew up in this order
and that the Magdalene's father was a priest at the temple at Capernaum.

there is no indication that the beloved disciple was named john, nor is there
any indication that any john ever took Mary in. there is some indication
that she may have returned to one of the houses of the thereputate (sp?).

There is also some indication that the disciple referenced could have been
Jesus' Wife the Magdalene, or his BiL Lazarus.





I posed the Theory that Jesus could have had a Twin Brother (as suggested above). One was for Peace & the Other was for War


I think it is in the Dead Sea Scrolls that they reference " Messiahs" plural.
a Civil Messiah and a Priestly Messiah. Someplace I have also read a theory
that the Baptist was the Priestly Messiah and Jesus was the Kingly Messiah.
Upon the death of the Baptist Jesus' twin acended to the position of Priestly
Messiah, and indeed one of them was executed by the roman government
but which is unclear.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
I think it is in the Dead Sea Scrolls that they reference " Messiahs" plural.
a Civil Messiah and a Priestly Messiah. Someplace I have also read a theory
that the Baptist was the Priestly Messiah


John 3:26 - They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan - the one you testified about - well, he is baptizing and everyone is going with him."
To this, John replied, "A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, 'I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him'.



and Jesus was the Kingly Messiah.
Upon the death of the Baptist Jesus' twin acended to the position of Priestly
Messiah, and indeed one of them was executed by the roman government
but which is unclear.


John 4:19 - 26 - "The woman said to Him, I know that Messiah is coming. He who is called the Christ, the Anointed One, and when He arrives He will tell us everything we need to know and make it clear to us.
Jesus said to her, I who am now speaking with you am He."



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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quote/////////////The seedless birth of Christ can and could be denied only by those who deny the Gospel,
whereas the Church of Christ from of old confesses Christ incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary." But the birth of God from the Ever-Virgin was a stumbling stone for those who wished to call themselves Christians but did not wish to humble themselves in mind and be zealous for purity of life.
The pure life of Mary was a reproach for those who were impure also in their thoughts.
So as to show themselves Christians, they did not dare to deny that Christ was born of a Virgin, but they began to affirm that Mary remained a virgin only until she brought forth her first-born son, Jesus (Matt. 1:25).

"After the birth of Jesus," said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him,
"Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ." But the word "until" does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time.
The word "until" and words similar to it often signify eternity.
In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away (Ps. 71:7),
but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world,
God's righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: For He must reign, until He hath put all enemies under His feet? (I Cor. 15:25).
Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us (Ps. 122:2).

www.orthodoxinfo.com...


"Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut." (Ezekiel 44:2).

This has always been interpreted by the Fathers of the Church to be a typological reference to the Virgin Mary and the Incarnation.


When we consider that God took flesh from the Virgin's womb, it is not difficult to imagine that this womb would remain virgin.
also ...
www.ccel.org...



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