What if it's not what we expect?

You took the trip and you thought you come down but in hindsight did you ever even come down? Are you still on the trip? That is my personal observation of the before and after affects of ufoollogy

a reply to: Puppylove

Fascinating deductive reasoning. Your post does give one pause for thought and does make theoretical sense. Definitely would make sense why they seem to want to make sure we don't go all nuclear and destroy their entertainment up too. Unless, they are using DNA to reseed a new planet, at which time they will just let this one go to hell.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Also keep in mind by this point they would have the ability for extreme body modifications. They can look like and be damn near whatever they want. They'd most likely be pansexual. They can also splice whatever dna they wish.

Makes all the strange sexual encounters fit as well and may even explain many ancient myths like Zeus.

Talk about a sexual power fantasy. There's a lot to this hypothesis that fits. There's no weird human experience that can't be explained by advanced super science and bored aliens.

If they wanted to identify as an attack helicopter they could. Build one, transfer their intelligence into it, and fly around pew pewing to their hearts content. Lol.

But now, after everything has been said about aliens, after all those hoaxes made those that want to blindly believe, after all those alleged abductees of which half are delusional and the other half victim of very human psychological trauma, after all those people that claim to hear pleiadians and inner Earth people and blue birds, after all those "scientists" trying to listen to any possible kind of message in the silent cosmos, after all those other "scientists" that are convinced aliens are coming to eat us all, after all those movies and ancient aliens, after all this hemorrhage of useless information that they have poured on my mind for three decades, I have to come to a conclusion: I have not met a single Mr Spock, I have not physically met a single of all those aliens everyone speaks about.

I think that may be the longest single sentence I've ever seen on ATS.

And that's saying something!

I'm going to read the rest of your post now...great start though.

a reply to: CynConcepts

As for reseeding. That sounds like a lot of time and work. They may have immortally long lives, but that does not necessitate infinite patience. Besides allowing nuclear fallout would put too much risk to those of them that like wearing any kind of people suit and roam the earth playing with the primitives.

The biggest threat we need to worry about is, how extreme they're willing to ramp up their entertainment, or, if they decide it's time to hit the reset button on their game and knock us back into the stone age.

The other worry is if they'd ever, for a second consider allowing us to progress to true success in space and become equals.

If they have conflicts, stuff like that is what it's about. Hit the reset button or allow us to progress. Their bleeding hearts on one side, and the more callous corrupt factions on the other.

I don't bet a lot on our chances... evidence of previous resets are too prevelent...

a reply to: swanne

I have accumulated meager evidence (that I can't prove) about the dinosauroid species that have possibly visited our planet; who came from another star system ---- A warm blooded bipedal race (evolved from dinosaurs) that sports three or four fingers on each of there two hands along with three toed feet.

Along with my assumption...that on any typical earth type planet in our universe --- a highly intelligent bipedal race would evolve (barring any catastrophic events) --- whether dinosauroid or homosapien types.

So the ratio of highly intelligent bipedal races...imho ---- whether dinosauroid or homosapien types ---- in our universe on typical earth type planets with land masses, might possibly be close to 50/50.

originally posted by: swanne

You know, all my life I grew up believing that we're not alone in the universe. The famous Drake Equation - I first read the Drake Equation as a child. At that time my parents were buying me astronomy books, which I remember fondly. Not children book - real books for professional astronomers. I was learning black holes right after memorising multiplication tables. And so I pretty much grew accepting the Drake Equation - I grew up assuming that with all those stars, with all those planets, of which that are in their Goldilocks zones, surely the Universe must be teeming with intelligent life.
snip

My opinion: The infamous Drake Equation is as empty as a deflated balloon, it holds no air. You cannot have an equation that starts with either 1 (us) or 0. Drake came up with a bunch of meaningless numbers that added up to zero. You cannot produce life from nothing. He didn't arrive at any meaningful answer. We are still all there is in creation UNTIL someone discovers others. So far, and you know this, there is no evidence to support the Drake Equation, it's just a romantic theory/fantasy.

I think life is all here, on Earth. All life. That's a good thing. Life is very special, indeed.

The truth is and always will be beyond our understanding. Many years here I have spoken many times perhaps unbalanced and out of line but I do know this. The truth is beyond our comprehension, the first five seconds our senses even begin to try to process the truth, we will we turn to fear because we will be overcome with... AN alien observation..

Their are many many things we do not understand and barely comprehend the universe for example to make it even more plain... A moon the orbits Jupiter...

The story Plato told eons comes to mind about a cave... many years here helped me understand what he meant...

a reply to: Bicent

The truth is only beyond our understanding when it is concealed, the motivations however they are the problem as quite often we can never understand the motivations of those that do things in secret especially when from the bigger picture there actions seen both counter productive, insane and destructive.

The assuming that we are alone in the universe comes from long ago and is akin to children hiding from the monsters of there fears in wardrobes or under there blankets.

Deniers by the majority are simply scared children no matter how old they be.

Believers though, now that is a mixed bag.

Some believers are like the lunatics in independence day standing under the alien cannon crying "take me".

Some are simply sceptics convinced of the reality of the phenomena.

And other's are people whom have seen something themselves and just want an answer to ease there concerns over whether or not what they saw was good or bad.

Meanwhile.


UFO's are apparently both good and bad, they have been around for at least thousands of years and come in many variation's ranging from flying fiery shields (hmm sounds like typical flying saucers) dating back to the classical Greek's and alexanders attack upon tyre were they apparently brought the city wall down for him with lightning allowing him to storm the city.
The Vimana of Indian Legend (another pair of flying shields stopped alexander from crossing a river into India diving at his army and then soaring back up but apparently other than terrifying his men and animal's did not harm - perhaps they are not the same faction as the five that destroyed the wall of tyre for him?).
The legend's of primitive people around the world including a south east Asian people whom always point to a star and say that there ancestors came from there in sky ship's.
The Victorian era air ship flap's were hundreds of cigar shaped craft were seen in the sky's.

But some account's are absurd but no less cool.

Such as the one about a congregation in a church (there are two versions one from Eira and one from Cornwall - it is believed the Cornish account is the original one), one of the parishioner came into the church and shouted that a sky ship had snared it's anchor on one of the head stone's so the people ran outside and witnessed the strange sight of a sky sailor climbing down from his ship which was floating in the sky along the anchor rope and trying to un snare the anchor so they grabbed him and he succumbed to our air as if he had drowned in the depth's of the ocean, after a short while his comrades cut the rope and the sky ship sailed off in the sky.

But some UFO's may indeed not be what they seem as there are accounts of aliens eating human's among other things which make no sense unless you take into context accounts' of alien abduction stopping when the name of Jesus or an exorcism has taken place which should not have any affect if they be simply corporeal entity's and indicates a spiritual level to there existence, usually a very dark level at that even demonic in nature - but perhaps not all as some have behaved more like angel's.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You're assuming the aliens didn't seed or know of the idea of Jesus in the first place. It's just as easy to pretend to be repelled by something as it is to actually be repelled by something.

There are many reasons the aliens I described might pretend repulsion to create exactly that kind of misinformation.

People seem to have a weird propensity for assuming honesty in what the see or is presented to them by others. Be they human or otherwise. Everyone assumes what they percieve with these entities is the truth or exposes some overarching truth. Few seem to consider that in all these instances, these beings are in control and what you see is controlled by and directed by them. It can all be false and made to mislead if they choose it to be.

Invoking Jesus might work and it might not, it may very well be up to them, and when it doesn't work, how would you know? Just because it worked for you doesn't mean some other Jesus invoking true believing Christian isn't eating out of a dog bowl on some weird aliens ship somewhere. Also, who says it worked at all and they didn't just make it seem that way?

Just saying lots of people place way too much trust in things being what they percieve them to be.

I reiterates there is nothing any alien in any encounter or anything strange that has ever happened on earth now or in our past that cannot be explained through advanced forms of technology we have at least the basics of today combined with trickery.

Pretending to be angels and demons, sounds like tons of fun if you're into that kind of thing. I've done both in tabletop rpgs before. I'm not one for the idea of playing a demon and hurting people in real life, but I'm not a psychopath so that makes sense. A psychopath with that kind of power may take quite a bit of enjoyment with such games. Such things could also be great for study of the mind and social conditioning. So many possibilities besides being actual demons or angels.

a reply to: Puppylove

Some good point's but I still believe that UFO's are of multiple types, some are indeed demonic or angelic while others may be interdimensional (which is interchangeable with spiritual in some arguments) and still others may be actual alien, perhaps even time travel (likely using wormholes) but by and large the vast majority are likely of human origin.

There may also be other sources, other races for example as in the old Chinese parable "The most cunning creature is the one no MAN has yet seen".

Some may not even really be there at all, ghostly form's, some may be hallucinations (only possible in my opinion were a single person has seen them as there is literally no such thing as a mass hallucination) and as for swamp gas well that is the only argument we can safely ignore.

You guys are actually making pretty thought-provoking arguments, thanks for presenting all those options.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I still think all the spiritual stuff is a red herring from beings that once upon a time pretended to be gods. I don't think there's any more need for the supernatural to explain this phenomena than there is for it to explain thunder.

The reason I like my theory is it explains everything, especially the weirdest #.

I'm of the opinion more happens than anyone is likely to admit to because their experiences are so weird no one could take them seriously. I think that such is purposefully orchestrated for exactly that reason.

Thinking aliens are demons is, in my opinion, underestimating their creativity.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Personally I picture more advanced ET as mostly bored immortals (age wise) that spend their time in bored leisurely pursuits. They don't really wage war with each other, since resource scarcity has become a thing of the past. Most of their issues are handled in competition be they sport, games or debate. Serious issues like murder are handled by their justice system. As individuals they pursue what they desire to their hearts content. 9-5 jobs are gone, most things are automated or run by AI or biological machines.

Those that roam the galaxy do so out of boredom or scientific study. If they were to find a planet like ours, any number of things could happen. They could turn us into some kind of reality show. They could study us, possibly influence social experiments. Some might decide to use us for sport, playing a complex game of RISK using us as pieces in a complex war game. Others might find the idea of trolling the primitives and then watching the outcome to see what happens.

They don't need slaves, they don't need resources, they don't need to eat us, and they don't need us as friends. They've conquered death by old age a long time ago, and they don't have to worry about jobs anymore. The only thing we could possibly provide them is entertainment and study. There's no reason for them to expose themselves to us as a whole, as doing so would limit our potential as a source of entertainment, and ruin the fun for way too many of them. Letting us as a whole find undeniable proof of them could likewise result in ruining their fun.

Sure they might expose themselves to some people, as individuals or small groups, or maybe even some governments if it suits them, but the last thing they'd want is a mass awakening. It serves no purpose for them and ruins everything.

When aliens do interact with us it could be for many reasons, some may simply desire to troll us, some may wish to study us, some may wish to use us as play things, and some may actually care for the strange primitive beings and actually want to help us.

I picture them debating often on what is and is not acceptable with the primitives on the planet. Some are compassionate and argue that we are sentient thinking beings and that some of the experiments and games played by others on the primitive populace is wrong, while others argue about everything gained in the name of research, and others for keeping their citizens placated due to the unrest caused by too much boredom. Most conflicts existing in the culture due to conflicts in entertainment pursuits as resources are no longer an issue. Most conflicts are over which entertainments are acceptable and can be pursued and who can pursue which entertainments. Primitive planets being a limited resource, one of the few, there is probably much conflict over who can play with it, and to what extent and for what purposes. I picture some people illegally messing with the primitive populace without a permit, I picture whole entertainment industries with licenses exploiting various populations for reality tv. I picture some entitled prestigious members using populations as chess pieces in games of war. I picture some abducting us and keeping as pets, or possibly even novelties, or something to study.

I don't picture the cumbaya aliens, nor do I picture the invaders or people eating aliens. I don't picture conquerors seeking our lands, or to enslave us. In a way what I picture is far worse. I picture us, bored, immortal, and with too much power.

The best part of this hypothesis is, it explains all the high strangeness of encounters, it explains the many and varied accounts, and it provides a cautious outlook for anyone who may be lucky or unlucky enough to encounter them, as like us, you have no way of knowing the motivations of the individual aliens you are encountering.

It also explains why we don't know about them as a whole, and why things might be being skewed in such a way we can't prove they are out there. If an advanced species are actively thwarting us, there's not much we can do.

The downside is, it can only be a hypothesis as it's neither provable nor falsifiable.

Fair points indeed.

I realize this is entirely theoretical so I’ll add this to the mix - perhaps there’s multiple ET species with differing agendas/technology/etc.?

Said another way - ET life is a spectrum. Let’s say we’re somewhere in the top of the 4th, bottom of the third quartile as it pertains to life in the universe and the beings you describe are in the first quartile (for the sake of argument - I have no idea where we actually land, obviously). We could be encountering many species - and those species maybe slightly ahead of us on the spectrum are dealing with the same problems we do.

My point here is that you could have good/bad sects of ETs that come here for very much more understandable/human reasons (resources/food/etc.) or perhaps they’re a society full of sociopaths or run by only sociopaths. These would be the bad guys, if you will. To me, the spectrum makes the most sense - very little is absolute - so I suspect we get a little bit of everyone stopping by and they don’t “show themselves” for reasons that are very much in line with a human train of thought.

That said, I agree that the first quartilers in this scenario are likely similar to the beings you describe. Zoo Hypothesis indeed!

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: LABTECH767

I still think all the spiritual stuff is a red herring from beings that once upon a time pretended to be gods. I don't think there's any more need for the supernatural to explain this phenomena than there is for it to explain thunder.

The reason I like my theory is it explains everything, especially the weirdest #.

I'm of the opinion more happens than anyone is likely to admit to because their experiences are so weird no one could take them seriously. I think that such is purposefully orchestrated for exactly that reason.

Thinking aliens are demons is, in my opinion, underestimating their creativity.

There’s almost without a doubt more weirdness going on than we know.

Even to this day, simply stating you have high conviction we’re not alone and ET is out there (or possibly here) is often times viewed as nutty.

Someone sharing personal experiences of high strangeness is downright certifiable in today’s culture. I’m of the opinion there’s a lot of nut jobs who are in fact insane but there’s a lot of otherwise normal people who won’t report.

Would be pretty interesting if society shed the stigma and a lot of “normal” people came forward with their encounters.

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Yeah see, that's the thing... I don't think it's likely to find many advanced species where all of that individual species is one way, and all of another species is another way. I just do not think complex brains allow for that kind of rigidity without them being forced to have it through genetic manipulation and killing off anyone who does not conform. I mean if artificially forced like I mentioned, sure it's possible, but on the whole unlikely. There might be multiple alien groups, but within each one would be sub groups, and the individuals would all share different beliefs and ideals. I just don't buy into the, these aliens are bad guys, and these aliens are our friends. I think believing such is dangerous as more likely than not, within each alien species some very well may be our friends while others might be our enemies. I just think it's a bad idea to paint an entire alien species with an identical brush.

Also keep in mind, being friendly may still not be what we desire. We love and care for our pets, but we also neuter or spay them, decide when they can or can't go outside, and often when and who they may breed with.

Instead of being so overly dramatic, OP, try to think like the guy you mentioned. Think logical.

We are a species thats been on this planet for how many years? Yet we cant even visit our next door neighbour Mars. Still, you want to dismiss the existence of intelligent alien beings because, according to you, we’ve never been visited by them?

That means we as humanity cannot exist, cause we’ve never visited other planets either. Yet here we are, here i, a human being, am typing this. How?

There are so many reasons we dont hear or see them. We could be quarantained, our entire galaxy could be quarantained. We could be a prison planet, could be we havent crossed the barrier for intergalactic contact yet, you just dont know. We dont know who or whats out there and by what rules they play.

In the early days of human civilisation we did not have vehicles that enabled us to visit other continents. Humans from the North American continent never visited Europe and vice versa. Did that mean there was nobody out there? No, the moment the Brits stepped foot on that continent they found people living in the woods with feathers in their hair and crossbows on their backs.

Besides that, its a fact that we are visited, we have picked up signals, we have ‘them’ on video, not all abductions are from people with mental issues etc etc. Im really astonished you think there never ever was any contact, any visual proof etc etc. Astonished. Do you live under a rock?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
1 after a short while his comrades cut the rope and the sky ship sailed off in the sky.

2 The Victorian era air ship flap's were hundreds of cigar shaped craft were seen in the sky's.

#1 One of the greatest UFO stories ever!

#2
1894. Astronomers Antoniadi, Campbell, Douglass, Lowell, Pickering, Maunder, and Molesworth see canals on Mars. Whereas Schiaparelli saw no more than 88 channels in 1877, Douglass, Lowell and Pickering recorded 184 canals in 1894. Their figures would climb to 700 total sightings within a few years.

1896. The Airship waves begin as UFO’s appear in the skies of Earth on a regular basis.

1900. First flight of the Zeppelin.

1909. The last airship wave is reported.

What do you think about the idea that the Airships could relate to the building and burying of the Martian canals/tubes?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Puppylove

I think I see the point of your last post... which I take to mean that blanket stereotyping one race/species as “good” and another “bad” is problematic and lacks nuance - right?

I Conceptually buy that - there’s probably elements of good/bad or friendly/unfriendly inside each faction. I agree with this also from the standpoint that unless you have zero genetic diversity or killed off all those who felt “differently” to create sameness it would be hard to pull off.

But...

I would also expect that their “goodness” or “badness” towards us/others would become more a collective thought with small amounts of divergence the more a species became a “species” and stopped thinking about themselves as a subset of a population in a factional sense.

Think of it like this. “Aliens” Invade earth and they don’t like humans because they want all of earth. So we, humans collectively, have to thwart them. This means black, white, yellow, tall, short, gay, straight fat, skinny, Islamic, Christian - we’re all the same to “them”. For “us” to save ourselves - we have to unite as humans. Those who lone wolf it and are unwilling to get on board probably get killed off due to no backup or resources. What’s left after the fact, if we’re successful, is the collective “we”. That we looks something like humans in the “Star Trek” sense. Are there still factions that think differently? Sure. But would we all be much more on board with being a united species? Most likely in my view. This would make painting humans with broader brush strokes way more reasonable and applicable - more unity and less dissent. See what I mean?

So I agree that perfect unity isn’t likely. But it’s a spectrum like most everything else - and I’d argue that spectrum would be pretty consistent across species - which would make it possible to say some of “them” are “good” in their collective view towards us and some of them are “bad”.

Fun exercise here!