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Debunkers: You've lost credibility and will continue to lose

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posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:31 PM
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Since the UFO phenomenon began, debunkers have had a field day attempting and frequently disproving UFO photos, film, video and experiencer statements. They are sometimes correct: an event may very well have been hoaxed, and those events should be brought to light to clean up the field. The problem: career-debunkers routinely debunk EVERYTHING UFO/ET related. They don't even stop to consider that maybe this time, the evidence is there or the witness is credible enough to believe.

Now, we have the "UAP" (unidentified aerial phenomenon) videos from the Navy. The Navy has recently admitted that the "videos are real", meaning that the videos are not doctored and represent what was observed by multiple pilots. Couple that with the statements of those pilots who have stated how the objects in question were observed on numerous occasions to be in the same location for several hours at a time, day after day, and that they were observed accelerating from 20,000 feet altitude to 80,000 feet in a split second, and that other times were observed to accelerate from 5 gs to 20 gs almost instantly. All of this was observed at close range and occurred on a regular basis over significant periods of time. The Navy has also stated that the videos should not have been released, that they were still classified. Debunkers, you can't explain any of that unless you stepped into the realm that you continually deny.

So where does that leave the hapless debunker, the self-proclaimed fount of truth and rational thought regarding the UFO phenomenon? Where oh where can they turn to debunk THIS on-going series of events? They cannot claim "rational" explanations -- unless they can point to human-engineered and manufactured aircraft that can defy the "laws" (I use that term very loosely since it is becoming more apparent that humanity has only touched the surface of the laws of the universe) of physics or explain why a human, foreign government would risk, repeatedly and on an on-going basis, their magical mystery ships falling into the hands of our country. They are dead in the water unless they can somehow impugn the honor and credibility of career Navy pilots who are experts in observations -- much more so than any debunker I know of -- and are trained to use logic and rational thought in the course of their work. Debunkers have a lot to answer for in general. Their close-mindedness and fear of the unknown and refusal to encourage further investigation are just a few problematic areas in which they dwell. But in this case, they've missed the boat and are floundering in their own stubborn, ignorant and arrogant denial of the obvious -- that something, not created by humans and regularly interacting with our military, has arrived and perhaps (likely) has been here for a long time.

So, in a nutshell, all you debunkers out there are on even more slippery ground than ever. Skeptics we need. Debunkers we don't need. There's a difference. A skeptic, if they're intellectually honest, should wind up saying in many of these cases, "we just don't know and can't reject any proposition." Debunkers enter with a mindset "it's all fake and I'll prove it." You've frequently provided weak and often laughable "explanations" to this mystery. Now, we are quickly approaching the day where you will eat your own words and I, for one, will say "I told you so" and gloat.

edit on 25-9-2019 by Visiting ESB because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:36 PM
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There's no UFOs .

Because we don't know what they are, doesn't make aliens.
The last people you should trust are the navy or government..


Where are thise ufo? It seems as video technologies advance we mysteriously see less ufos



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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Healthy skepticsm and a open mind is important.




Now, we are quickly approaching the day where you will eat your own words and I, for one, will say "I told you so" and gloat.


I try to detach myself from emotions when I try to figure something or someone out. It is helping to change perspective. Give it a try



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
There's no UFOs .

Because we don't know what they are, doesn't make aliens.
The last people you should trust are the navy or government..


Where are thise ufo? It seems as video technologies advance we mysteriously see less ufos


Your assertions are false. Yes, there are UFOs, by definition. NOBODY (here) SAID they are aliens. The videos are real. Get over it. The Navy is as trustworthy as any entity and the "government" is a collective noun. And there are more UFOs recorded than ever before. Look up the reports at Mufon or the National UFO Reporting Center before you make the claim that there are fewer UFOs.

OP is right. If what you wrote is the best example of debunking we can come up with, it's a pretty dismal scene.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Visiting ESB




A skeptic, if they're intellectually honest, should wind up saying in many of these cases, "we just don't know and can't reject any proposition."

But if you have an opinion on what it is or could be you should say what you think without being pigeonholed as a skeptic or debunker , people's opinions don't change what it is or could be.

TTSA are not about disclosure , buyer beware.
That too is an opinion.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:45 PM
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And what exactly have we learned from all this stuff going on these days? That weird stuff flies around and people don't know what it is? Hell, man, people have been saying that since 10,000 B.C.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Visiting ESB

Debunkers offer an invaluable service. When some secureteam10 video is released, then pointed out as CGI, isn't it better than salivating over "the most amazing footage evah"?

When they can't debunk a video, that's when you should perk up.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:58 PM
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Fakes are fakes and usually pretty easy to spot. The other variety are just what they are claimed to be, "unidentified". It's when charlatans and money chasers claim them to be "alien" that credibility is lost and it's not the debunkers losing credibility, it's the other crowd who haven't a clue either but claim expertise on something unidentified.
edit on 9/25/2019 by DJMSN because: corrections



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 02:58 PM
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I think the UFO crowd needs to get better at debunking the debunkers. That should solve your problem.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 03:11 PM
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The government wouldn't tell you the truth you wanted to hear for 70 years. The government lies..

The government says they have video of things they can't explain in the sky and you now believe them unconditionally.

Meanwhile the debunkers still debunked the Roswell slides in 2015. Because they were not of an alien body but a mummified child.

So what exactly is your point?
edit on 25/9/2019 by mirageman because: ...



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman

So what exactly is your point?


Their point seems to be the most childish, unnecessary and pointless point of all: the creation of warring Tribes on the UFO/Aliens forum. Unless they're ten-years-old, there's no excuse (no offence to 10-year-olds).

Looking back, it's the very thing that led to ATS having severe problems some years ago and a subsequent admin backlash. Basically an embarrassment for the forum in general.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 03:31 PM
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it's ok for people to be skeptical, and for them to attempt to debunk every single ufo claim. my personal beliefs about the ETH don't require either vindication or endorsement by anyone else. to use a somewhat hackneyed phrase, i know what i saw. many times. me telling a devout christian that god is a fiction would no doubt be similarly ineffective. and equally pointless.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 03:40 PM
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originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
it's ok for people to be skeptical, and for them to attempt to debunk every single ufo claim. my personal beliefs about the ETH don't require either vindication or endorsement by anyone else. to use a somewhat hackneyed phrase, i know what i saw. many times. me telling a devout christian that god is a fiction would no doubt be similarly ineffective. and equally pointless.

I suppose there's pretty much nothing you can say to a "believer" that will make them not believe. And a true "debunker" won't accept anything as fact until it meets their specific criteria for acceptance. So the key thing remains the evidence, the data. To a believer who has seen something odd with their own eyes that they can't rationalize as being from this Earth / reality, they have their data and evidence. But I like to think that there is some threshold of evidence -- the classic "flying saucers on the White House lawn" -- that would make it impossible for a debunker to hold onto their own skepticism.

But that hasn't happened... yet.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 03:59 PM
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UFOs/UAPs exist for sure. If aliens or otherworldly beings exist, either no one on earth knows or those that do are kept silent by some means BY the alien beings.

Disclosure is ridiculous. How could the government cover-up an alien presence IF that alien presence wanted to be known? No way they could prevent alien craft from just setting up shop all over the planet and make themselves known. If aliens are here and hidden, it's the aliens doing the hiding.

There are so many bogus videos out there that I'm happy for the debunkers. Let them loose! Whittle down the nonsense a bit.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Nah, 10,000 years ago, when the Earth shook and the mountain exploded with the depths of hell flowing forth and consuming everything, it was the spirit of the mountain, and to appease him, they sacrificed virgins.. and his belly would stop rumbling and he would go back to sleep.

They didn't know what it was, so attributed it to something more than they were.

Same thing as now, except there is no such thing as a virgin any more.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: gallop
a reply to: Blue Shift
Nah, 10,000 years ago, when the Earth shook and the mountain exploded with the depths of hell flowing forth and consuming everything, it was the spirit of the mountain, and to appease him, they sacrificed virgins.. and his belly would stop rumbling and he would go back to sleep.

They still wondered about comets and meteorites, and the "miasma" that seemed to follow them. Even today, recognizing what those things are, and satellites, and so on, there are still plenty of odd things that appear in the sky that are puzzling to say the least. The ancients tried to explain those exceptionally odd things using the knowledge they had, just like we do, and weren't any more successful than we are.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
There's no UFOs .

Because we don't know what they are, doesn't make aliens.
The last people you should trust are the navy or government..


Where are thise ufo? It seems as video technologies advance we mysteriously see less ufos


If you don't know what they are but they are flying, then those are UFOs...

Wasn't UFO equal to Unidentified Flying Object?


UFO != aliens



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: Malisa
If you don't know what they are but they are flying, then those are UFOs...
Wasn't UFO equal to Unidentified Flying Object?
UFO != aliens


While technically, the "U" in UFO means "unidentified," it must be acknowledged that for many If not most people it means potentially alien. We can be pedantic about it, but that's the way it is.

The Navy is calling them "UAPs," which is not bad. What we really need is a new acronym that indicates "unknown, but it's so weird that it could be aliens." Maybe "PAFO" or "Potentially Alien Flying Object."
edit on 25-9-2019 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 08:04 PM
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The debunkers are the most credible group. It is when they say they can't debunk something that I pay attention.



posted on Sep, 25 2019 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: Visiting ESB


Another stupid rant by someone not qualified to speak intelligently. Your own words betray you:

Since the UFO phenomenon began, debunkers have had a field day attempting and frequently disproving UFO photos, film, video and experiencer statements. They are sometimes correct: an event may very well have been hoaxed, and those events should be brought to light to clean up the field. ... The problem: career-debunkers routinely debunk EVERYTHING UFO/ET related. They don't even stop to consider that maybe this time, the evidence is there or the witness is credible enough to believe.[


So debunkers are sometimes correct in their debunking of questionable UFO photos, film, video and experiencer statements. They are brought to light. What is your problem? The debunkers were successful and the field was cleaned up, somewhat. Debunkers DO NOT routinely debunk everything. If they did this forum would not exist. If the evidence is there that's the end of the alleged and false claims. And what witnesses are you pointing out, UFO sightings or claims of alien abductions? Be clear. UFO "witnesses" don't have a problem, they saw something they couldn't identify as ours. Alleged alien abductions have never happened which is why there is no evidence, just tall tales or, bs.

You bitch about debunkers, offer proof that the debunkers have debunked the navy videos. I challenge you.


You don't have anything to bitch about.




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