FDA: Thousands of Deaths Associated With Drugs Given to ‘Trans’ Children

originally posted by: Kalamitous

originally posted by: Boadicea
...Sadly, he does sound like an autogynephile in the making...

I hope quoting rather than replying to you is proper protocol and that I'm not violating your standards of etiquette?

This is fine -- more about clarity and comprehension than etiquette though. Helps keep everyone on the same page and on point, rather than misunderstandings and talking over one another.

I’d prefer we not view one another as enemies simply because I don’t agree with your tone, and fervor.

Okay.

You unfailingly equate autogynephilia with automatically being bad.

That's quite the leap there. But I don't think in those terms.

It's simple. If this boy were the stereotypical gay (or HSTS) type of transgender, then he wouldn't have been sexually harassing a girl. Ergo, he is the heterosexual autogynephilic type. This is not to say that ALL autogynephiles are sexual harassers, much less sexual abusers or assaulters. It is simply noting the heterosexual nature of the harassment and coming to the logical conclusion.

I understand why. AGPs are the worst of the worst trans activists and are as nasty of a bunch as the hardline TERFs but you are stereotyping an entire group of people because some are bad actors or militant or hostile when not all of them are...

Nope. You went there, not me. However, we agree that the worst of the Trans Activists -- do note the capitalization, as I am referring to a specific group of people, not ALL transgender persons -- are quite a nasty bunch, and they do tend to be of the autogynephilic nature. And these are the Trans Activists making the demands and running the show. Let's put this into very clear terms: Men with a sexual fetish, who are sexually aroused by acting and being seen and treated as a "woman," are demanding laws that force the rest of society to roleplay in their sexual fantasy.

That is the most benign description possible, and it is absolutely unconscionable and unacceptable.

But we know that's not even the worst of it. These AGPs hide behind the truly gender dysphoric, and fully surgically transitioned transsexuals, demanding "Self-ID" to include virtually every male who says "I identify as a woman." Both run of the mill predators and trans predators with no effort at safeguarding. Let's also be honest that these people are also very likely to have other serious mental and emotional issues, if not disorders, which are not only NOT being properly diagnosed or treated, but which also include violent and predatory tendencies. There is absolutely no regard or respect for the safety, privacy, dignity and rights for women in protected spaces. Their demands are putting women, girls and children in harms way.

And worst of all is the major gaslighting campaign to convince people not to believe their own lying eyes... that there's no risk of danger in allowing any and every man into women's protected spaces because men won't lie and men identifying as "women" won't commit crimes... because "this never happens."

Not all autogynephilically driven transgender women are evil vile monsters and it is unfair to automatically assume that all of them are because some of them are. This is a false equivalence.

And one that I did not make. YOU did. I have very clearly enumerated my specific issues.

The picture you paint is also that all lesbians dislike transgender people when you know the opposite is mostly true and that the majority of lesbian and LGB media promotes inclusivity and understanding.

Good job throwing that word salad together... I think. But no. I have very clearly qualified my statements about lesbians. And a couple posters who identified themselves as lesbians to give their perspective have agreed with my comments about lesbians, and those who reject the transgender ideology in general, and Trans Activism in particular. So it is not simply "the picture" I paint.

I have to further correct your assertion that I ever insinuated, inferred or implied that ALL lesbians dislike transgender people. In fact, I don't believe that for a minute. I don't even believe most lesbians dislike transgender people. They are not hating on people, they are objecting to the Trans Activist Agenda -- their demands for social, legal and regulatory acts to be imposed and enforced on the rest of us.

And it's impossible for you to qualify the level of lesbian support for the Trans Activist Agenda for many reason, but mostly because their has been a very successful bullying campaign against anyone who dares speak out publicly against the Agenda, and therefore women especially are self-censoring. Women especially have been harassed, banned, de-platformed, threatened, attacked and otherwise bullied and beaten into submission.

Not all of us though.

a reply to: Kalamitous

Okay.

Our comments will stand on their own merits.

a reply to: Kalamitous

I changed my mind. I can't let this stand without rebuttal:

Transgender children ARE broken or will be if nothing is done

THIS ^^^ is the problem. And it's cruel, judgmental and unconscionable.

No, they are NOT BROKEN. They are works in progress. They are growing and learning and developing and maturing into the adult they are meant to be. They are confused, unsure, frustrated, inexperienced and scared, with much to learn and understand, but they are NOT BROKEN. They are perfectly imperfect beings just like all of us. And like all of us, they may be a little bent or tweaked or flippity-floppity in their own unique way, but they are NOT BROKEN.

How dare you make such a hurtful and damaging declaration about an entire demographic -- perhaps the most impressionable and vulnerable of all demographics --all because they don't conform to YOUR gender stereotypes??? And how dare you suggest that they need to be "fixed" with chemical castration and surgical mutilation, doomed to a life of medical dependency, in order to be "okay"? THIS IS THE PROBLEM!!!

These kids need to have any and all underlying mental emotional issues addressed first and foremost, such as autism, sexual abuse, etc. They need to find their own strength and courage, their own potential and self-worth, and their own peace within themselves -- for these purposes, and ALL of life's challenges. They need to be given the tools and resources to be self-sufficient and resourceful and independent for themselves from within themselves. They need to be encouraged to develop their own innate gifts, talents and skills. They need to be loved and valued for who they are, and all they can be.

a reply to: Boadicea

Broken in the sense that they have a condition that needs to be dealt with in a suitable manner or that they have special needs and are not like children without these specific problems. I was trying to be brief and basically used that terminology as shorthand or a quick bullet point responding to your bullet point. Lighten up, Francis.

I agree with most of what you said but will again say your actual and practical knowledge of and experience with trans youth is lacking and obviously you've gotten most of it if not all of your information and been *heavily influenced by what you've read on internet sites that fall in line with your point of view. That right there is confirmation bias in action which I’m sure you’ll disagree with so save yourself the time telling me I am wrong.

* I could have said brainwashed but I was trying to be nice and not to piss you off

Didn't mean to push you over the edge and will you please stop calling gender affirming surgery mutilation because only a very, very small few that have had these procedures think of them as anything but life saving and improving their quality of life. It’s usually only the detransitioned ROGD type females with improperly diagnosed disassociative disorders in the first place and the anti-trans mob that say things like this. That's intentionally inflammatory language and you know it is but I guess playing to the crowd helps your stars and flag numbers or something motivates the bee in your bonnet?

a reply to: Kalamitous

That right there is confirmation bias in action which I’m sure you’ll disagree with so save yourself the time telling me I am wrong.

* I could have said brainwashed but I was trying to be nice and not to piss you off

...Didn't mean to push you over the edge...

Save your self-righteous and sanctimonious drivel.

I'm done with you, your gaslighting, and your pathetic defense for abuse of children, women and girls.

a reply to: Boadicea
Thanks for the feedback re quoting or replying. I’ll get the hang of it.

originally posted by: Boadicea
But we know that's not even the worst of it. These AGPs hide behind the truly gender dysphoric, and fully surgically transitioned transsexuals, demanding "Self-ID" to include virtually every male who says "I identify as a woman."

Well, believe it or not, I am in complete agreement and stand in solidarity with you on this whole "Self-ID" thing. I think that's a terrible idea for the same reasons you do although you don't hear of too many problems in the countries that have enacted it.

The majority of late transitioning AGPs have indeed co-opted and colonized the narrative of the true transsexuals and the from birth HSTS trans kids and that pisses me off mightily. These kids are looked at and often idolized by them as the gold standard of true transness and that is problematic. It makes me nauseous when a heterosexual married 50-year old man that’s fathered a couple of kids has a sudden awakening they've always been a woman inside that needs to get out and they knew it since they were 5 which is horse puckey. Then they try to justify it all with made up stories and false memories stolen from other people's lives to make excuses for their fetishistic transvestism and why they couldn't do anything about that because things were just too hard back in the day or they were too repressed or something?

The median age of transition for primary/HSTS MTFs is 20 years old, with a range from pre or early puberty to early 20’s. The average age is 18. More than 95% transition full time before the age of 22 or 23 and it's been that way at least since the late 1960's. If these people were really women, they would have been unable to survive or function as men and there's got to be some pretty big self-delusion going or something when their autogynephilic fueled gender dysphoria takes over their lives. It's sad most of these people will never really "pass" and because they don't or can't, that's why we have this whole gaggle of rabid trans activists. I do not like them either nor do I care to believe the sky-is-falling mantra of the rabid gender crits and dislike them just as much.

Atypical for Scandinavian countries but I know a trans girl that lives in Norway. They have free healthcare there for trans people but their programs only include care for young folks diagnosed with primary transsexualism, not care for late onset secondaries (AGPs) that have to pay out of pocket and go to other countries for their transition related services.

I was also opposed to Obama's "Dear Colleague" letter regarding transgender children in school using the bathroom aligned with their "gender identity" which would have been fine and dandy except it forbade asking for any sort of medical proof that a child actually was transgender and it prevented the schools from contacting the parents if the child came out at school and the parents didn't know or the child felt unsafe talking to their parents about it. I understand wanting to protect trans children but the Obama plan was too overreaching. I applauded his efforts for trying to help but it was just too much.

I’m all for “real” trans kids being supported in school and peeing where ever they want but come on. Can’t we at least get some sort of medical evaluation that they’re really trans? You know as well as I do the last thing in the world a trans girl or anyone that’s genuinely transsexual would want would be for anyone to see their genitals.

Another thing I'm not at all in favor of is an adult walking into Planned Parenthood or their doctor's office and getting hormone prescriptions under the informed consent model. Most don't require any sort of psychological evaluation or diagnosis which I think is a really bad idea and would weed out a lot of the AGPs thinking they need to release their "inner woman" that have no business transitioning or think they are just the same as natal women.

Are you familiar with Blaire White? If for some reason she showed up at a women’s shelter, should she be turned away because she has a penis? There’s just too much grey area here that unfortunately seems to be arbitrarily based on passability? I will admit I am conflicted and a little bit confused on this but don’t think blanket policies one way or another work but that leaves it to someone’s subjective opinion of what’s okay and what isn’t and that doesn’t really work either. How do you feel like situations like this? I don’t have easy answers.

Finally, trans women in women’s sports. My opinion is unless you were on blockers and did not go through male puberty, then that’s fine because there is no physical advantage to other females. If you did experience male puberty, then stay the hell out of women’s competition, find another hobby or a sport that includes both women and men. Testosterone levels alone or even SRS don’t do enough to level the playing field as far as I’m concerned. Believe me, I know all about getting attacked for my views on these things and except for two or three trans pen pals I have that are really great people that share most of my opinions, I want nothing to do with transgender people and they don't like me either.

Where we differ most strongly in our opinions though is regarding trans youth. I get what you’re saying about how late transitioners are all over promoting this wishing it was something they could have done even if we know they wouldn’t have but having known and dealt with trans children and adolescents and seen their pain and despair first hand and in speaking to their parents and hearing their stories, I know that some rare kids that are properly diagnosed can and do benefit greatly and have reasonably normal lives with early intervention so again, I hate to see the notion of this written off with blanket policies or forcing them to wait until they are adults. It is cruel.

Begrudgingly, I also have to agree with you it’s far too easy for gender non-conforming kids to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria and some doctors and clinics are far too willing to do so. These lackadaisical policies will cause backlash that ultimately will harm those kids genuinely and classically transsexual who will be denied care. The push for this by the Trans Activists mafia is something I do acknowledge. Check Rod Fleming's channel on YouTube who discusses this whole mess in great detail.

Whoa, there’s a character limit? Yikes! Sorry for writing so much. This is continued from my post above. I’m blaming sleep deprivation.

I wrote:
Not all autogynephilically driven transgender women are evil vile monsters and it is unfair to automatically assume that all of them are because some of them are. This is a false equivalence.

And one that I did not make. YOU did. I have very clearly enumerated my specific issues. .

Another technical question, since nested quotes don’t work here. Is this the right way to show this? I was afraid without my preceding comment, quoting yours alone would be confusing.

Perhaps you feel you have clearly enumerated specific issues but I would suggest that most of your comments do come across as inclusive one size fits all generalizations and that other people will take your comments that way too. I will look more closely for the distinctions that you make but wonder if you could make them more obvious?

The picture you paint is also that all lesbians dislike transgender people when you know the opposite is mostly true and that the majority of lesbian and LGB media promotes inclusivity and understanding.

Good job throwing that word salad together... I think.

It was a sentence, not salad.

Although we are at odds with one another and I’m sure I make you as mad at times as you do me, these are good discussions and all I’m trying to do is balance things out in a reasonable way to prevent everyone from only being presented one side of the picture without a differing point of view.

It’s afternoon and I should have been in bed hours ago. Sorry if this is incoherent. I hope further elaborating on some of my opinions will see us maybe finding a few areas of common ground?

originally posted by: Boadicea
Save your self-righteous and sanctimonious drivel.

Ouch! Pot called and wants their kettle back.

I'm done with you, your gaslighting, and your pathetic defense for abuse of children, women and girls.

Okay, that's fine. Whatever but to say I'm defending the abuse of children, women and girls quite frankly is over the top and untrue and uncalled for. I'm done with you too. People already see how close-minded and manic you are about this and I don't have to do anything for them to see it.

So gaslighting huh? Is that what you say about everyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions? Honestly, it's pretty weak.

a reply to: Kalamitous
This will be my only direct response to you. Reply or not. I will not respond after this. I dont know how long you have been at ATS but ive never seen you here before. You want to know why you are p###ing Boadicea off? I'll tell you from my perspective what I'm seeing.

You try to sound like you are being reasonable but when you carefully read your responses, it comes across much different. This isnt about agreeing to disagree. You claim she is broad brushing a group when she is not. She has made it very clear she if talking about a specific subset within a group. You keep reverting back to that position no matter how many times she clarifies. That's disingenuous. Its rude and a clear attempt to smear her.

You bury an insult deep into the middle of a large paragraph, calling her a terf. Unless I missed it, I never saw you apologize. It is typical gaslighting. Calling her character into question, constantly misrepresenting her position and claiming she made statements she clearly did not make.

You make claims about MY community and what we believe that shows you do not know of what you speak. My observation is that you are not part of my community. I may be wrong about that but whether you are or aren't doesnt really matter. You are not the spokesman for said community. You are simply stating your opinion and trying to bolster it with the fallacy of "most people say or believe"BS without providing any proof.

Its clear you have been attacking her with carefully worded posts, trying to give yourself an out by claiming you were misunderstood. You are rude. That type of rude that attempts to masquerade as intelligent debate, but it really comes down to ... You are rude.

originally posted by: Kalamitous

originally posted by: Boadicea
Save your self-righteous and sanctimonious drivel.

Ouch! Pot called and wants their kettle back.

I'm done with you, your gaslighting, and your pathetic defense for abuse of children, women and girls.

Okay, that's fine. Whatever but to say I'm defending the abuse of children, women and girls quite frankly is over the top and untrue and uncalled for. I'm done with you too. People already see how close-minded and manic you are about this and I don't have to do anything for them to see it.

So gaslighting huh? Is that what you say about everyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions? Honestly, it's pretty weak.

Actually the majority of people on here respect Boadicea. Being passionate about your beliefs doesn't effect their validity.

However, you seem to be more interested in attacking them rather then proposing valid counter arguments.

On a lighter note, sure to upset you both, this is the first thread that's ever given me the mental image of a cat fight, hair flying in all directions.

originally posted by: Grenade
Actually the majority of people on here respect Boadicea. Being passionate about your beliefs doesn't effect their validity.

However, you seem to be more interested in attacking them rather then proposing valid counter arguments.

I’m glad you replied, thanks. I've been posting in two trans related threads with my own references and counter arguments in the other one. I did not want to duplicate what I said in the other thread for fear of being redundant or cross-posting and I don’t want to get in trouble for doing that. I don’t disrespect Boadicea and I’m sure she’s a fine person and I don’t disrespect her arguments, I just don’t agree with most of them.

Let me explain why you see what you’re seeing.

The gender critical ideology Boadicea aligns herself with is nearly verbatim from the manifesto of a reactionary radical fringe minority branch of outdated second wave feminism that excludes transgender people from regular feminist discourse and is known for their vitriolic rhetoric and actions that many consider harmful and hateful.

At present, this group is most active and powerful in the UK that’s been whipped into a frenzy by the British media because it gets clicks and sells newspapers and I find it less than cool she wants to import and proselytize for their agenda in the U.S. that’s already divided and polarized enough with these issues.

She feels fully justified in this because the radical and vocal fringe minority branch of transgender activism is equally vitriolic and specious and when these factions come together, it’s usually who can out shout the other or who is going to throw the first punch?

Transgender people feel the “gender critical” ideology wishes to take away the human rights and protections of transgender folks and they don’t want that to happen or to see things regress and civil debate becomes impossible when both sides feel their agenda is hateful and harmful and that each of them believes in their moral superiority.

Save the children and protect the women, the gender critical’s battle cry that goes back to the Jim Crow era of racism has been co-opted, shined up and polished for the 21st century and used to demonize, invalidate and dehumanize transgender people by them and the politicians sponsoring “bathroom bills” backed by major anti-trans organizations considered by the SPLC to be ultra-conservative hate groups such as the worst one like the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) The Family Research Council (FRC) and the Liberty Counsel. Even when polished, a turd is still a turd.

The “gender crits” have aligned themselves with these organizations which is curious as most radical feminist factions of feminism are progressive leftists and it’s even weirder because these alt-right conservative groups aren’t very well known for the support of women’s reproductive rights and full of good ol’ boy misogyny. Politics makes strange bedfellows so they say and this one is hella baffling.

My stake or interest in this is to provide a counter point to and hopefully a degree of balance to her one-sided arguments basically as a matter of principle because I’ve known a lot of transsexual and transgender people going back more than 40 years and have been involved directly with the lives and needs of trans children and their families in a supportive capacity and as an ally. I am well studied in this field and quite well versed in the political rivalries.

What I am not well experienced with is dealing with these people without my emotions being evoked when they flat out do things like repeatedly accuse me as having no concern for the safety, protection and privacy of women and children which is kind of ironic since I am an woman with a daughter and a grandchild.

I am making an effort to improve my delivery but it is hard because I’m passionate about my beliefs as well but considering my viewpoints are more aligned with the science and research behind this and backed by every major health organization world wide, it's hard for me to fight against the feeling of having a tad of moral superiority as well. Of course the other side considers themselves whistleblowers because these organizations have been railroaded by the trans activists.

Obviously, transgender children is a confusing and very controversial issue and half-cocked people without any real information about the science and research behind this get a whiff of something that sounds outrageous and go ballistic. OMG! They’re giving kids drugs to change their sex and whacking off their bits.

I myself do share a lot of concern about the transgender activist agenda mainly because they’re going to piss off the gender criticals and both sides of this very obnoxious kerfuffle are going to end up affecting the care of those transgender kids that desperately and truly need and deserve it. I can’t stand to sit by and watch that happen. They can say whatever the hell they want about adult transgender issues but leave the damn kids out of and let the parents and the doctors do their jobs.

Predictable incoming rebuttal:
These drugs are killing children
We’re sterilizing our future generations
The trans activists agenda is forcing their ideology on parents
Nobody does real research because the trans activists silence them
Research is bought and paid for anyway
The trans activists are trying to normalize mental illness
Child abuse
Yada, yada, yada.

All by people likely to never have seen a genuine transgender child in their life or had to be the parent of one and have no clue other than to react with a gut feeling of outrage.

It’s the same thing over and over in every single trans thread here and I’ve been reading this forum for years. The trans people and their supporters that used to be have been run off by the toxic environment so I’ll try stepping up to the plate for a while with the hope that one or two folks might actually have a better understanding of these issues. A person can dream, right?

I’m actually here for the UFO, aliens and sciency stuff. I hate left/right politics.

On a lighter note, sure to upset you both, this is the first thread that's ever given me the mental image of a cat fight, hair flying in all directions.

That’s funny! My hair is blonde and halfway down my back. Does that help with the visual?

a reply to: Kalamitous

So because people disagree with you, the environment is toxic?

The problem is this - we see healthy bodies that are normal in every way being made less than healthy because of the brain inside. This literally happens with no other condition. No one else gets to say, I feel like I shouldn't have an arm, so I got my doctor to cut it off. I believe that I was meant to be a dolphin, so I got my doctor to get my trachea to exit through the beck of my neck instead of my nose.

It is a medical fact that children who do not go through puberty on their own have a medical disease, a condition that gets treated because it causes all kinds of medical problems for them, but here we have a subset of children who "think" they shouldn't be the sex they are, so we intentionally give them that same disease and call it treatment! That's madness.

And than we have the monumental hubris to assume that bathing their bodies in hormones not designed for the systems they are genetically programmed to have will magically be the perfect replacement for what the body's system were designed to be bathed in and not compounding the problems already caused by them not undergoing pubertal development.

originally posted by: ketsuko
So because people disagree with you, the environment is toxic?

Hi, thanks for your comments. No, it's not that or any one particular poster, it's just the negative outrage of child abuse, mental illness, killing kids, etc., and the general fervor and hyperbole of people flying off the handle when they've never been involved with transgender kids and the hostility and cruel things said in every thread around here with a transgender topic that does feel pretty toxic when putting myself in their shoes and trying to view things from the transgender point of view. You know, like people with compassion and empathy might do once and a while?

I’ve always been interested in this subject, have closely known transgender and transsexual people and children going back to 40 years ago and have been reading here for a long time about this and other things I like reading about. The trans people that used to be here all left and the trans negativity has run roughshod over this place without any counter and I kind of hate to see that because people can learn a lot here if they’re willing to be open minded and lately all they’ve learned is trans=bad. It’s like TDS without The Donald. It’s a tough crowd and when this subject comes up, it’s usually just an echo chamber with very few people offering anything positive or different perspectives and if someone does, there’s always mudslinging.

The problem is this - we see healthy bodies that are normal in every way being made less than healthy because of the brain inside. This literally happens with no other condition. No one else gets to say, I feel like I shouldn't have an arm, so I got my doctor to cut it off. I believe that I was meant to be a dolphin, so I got my doctor to get my trachea to exit through the beck [sic] of my neck instead of my nose.

Well, I think your analogies are a little bit silly and somehow you managed to leave out attack helicopter. That’s one of my favorites that gets a smile if not a giggle! While what you initially said may be true about bodies but when a young child says they want to die and go home to Jesus or they threaten to harm and do harm that body or they suffer crippling anxiety and depression and refuse to cooperate, interact or go to school, have social behavior problems and are extremely and profoundly sad and melancholy because of understanding themselves as the gender not indicated by their sex bits, then the whole dynamic system is thrown off kilter and in the overall holistic sense, because their brain is a part of that body, the body is not healthy. Their life is not healthy.

Would you suggest lithium, thorazine, ritalin, SSRI’s or maybe ECT along with some serious talks about body positivity, reinforcing gendered behavior and positive role modeling about the joys of being a mommy or a daddy when they grow up or how about some kind of more serious negative reinforcement or punishment?

It helps to know what age of a child you are talking about in you hypothetical because things will be different if it’s a 4-year old to maybe 8 or 9 or between maybe 9 and puberty or from puberty to 15 or 16 and it matters if we want to talk about a natal male or a natal female child because each scenario is different and girls start puberty earlier and more dramatically than boys and have a lot more social pressure about their looks and bodies that become sexualized by some as soon as they start showing signs of development. Socially and psychologically boys and girls are different too and have different roles and stereotypes influencing them so it is very difficult to have blanket one-size-fits-all, black or white, on or off solutions and each situation requires a unique and individually tailored approach so I can’t offer any suggestions

It is a medical fact that children who do not go through puberty on their own have a medical disease, a condition that gets treated because it causes all kinds of medical problems for them, but here we have a subset of children who "think" they shouldn't be the sex they are, so we intentionally give them that same disease and call it treatment! That's madness.

Yeah, this comparison and talking point was lifted pretty much from the hit piece article in the first post quoting Dr. Michael K. Laidlaw who is a well known ultra-orthodox Catholic anti-trans crusading endocrinologist at odds with the published guidelines of his own professional organization and not a psychiatrist or psychologist with relevant training in this field.

Indeed as a disease model in healthy non-transgender children, that don’t begin expected and wanted puberty, hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is indeed just that, a disease. But in children that have been evaluated often over years and diagnosed with severe gender dysphoria, unwanted puberty and development of secondary sexual characteristics would likely prove to be psychologically and emotionally devastating.

Gender dysphoria may no longer be classified as a mental illness by the APA and the WHO but it can and does bring dis-ease to the sufferer as much as any fancy condition with an impressive sounding name can and it can and does exacerbate co-morbidites such as anxiety and depression which actually are mental illnesses. In transgender children, these usually manifest as suicidal ideation, attempted suicide, self harm such as cutting, social withdrawal/isolation and eating disorders. If your child is on the autism spectrum, then the problem becomes exponentially more difficult.

Is it at that point you would want to bring out the drugs and strategies in my above paragraph? Maybe try a round or two of reparative therapy or ask your deity to help? Who ya gonna call and what ya gonna do and how much misery and pain are you going to put your child through while you try to cajole them into giving up this silly and ridiculous idea that their sex and their gender aren’t the same thing.

If there were known strategies that have shown any efficacy in curing gender dysphoria or a psychoactive drug that works, think how much money big pharma could make with a drug to sell parents so they wouldn’t have to have a transgender child any more.

The way you’ve tried to point this out seems to ignore the fact that gender dysphoria itself is an illness or disease that stands about a 50/50 chance of going into remission itself and maybe causing other problems when it comes raging back later in life or if you’re kid is in the group that doesn’t desist and continues to be trans and you’ve done nothing and against their will and let their bodies develop naturally, they’re going to hate you for making them go through the pain and expense of correcting those secondary sex characteristics that you could have helped prevent and didn’t because of potential risks. Everyone has seen the statistics and heard all the horror stories about being transgender, Do you think those risks are negligible? And finally, why are so many transitioned and puberty blocked kids thriving and happy?

Part 2. Whoa sorry.

And than we have the monumental hubris to assume that bathing their bodies in hormones not designed for the systems they are genetically programmed to have will magically be the perfect replacement for what the body's system were designed to be bathed in and not compounding the problems already caused by them not undergoing pubertal development.

Well again, there are literally multiple thousands of transgender kids now that have undergone what’s called the Dutch Protocol they’ve been using in the Netherlands for trans kids for 20+ years and in use in this country for at least 12 years that I can confirm and as noted, these kids are thriving. I personally know an absolutely stunning and incredibly brilliant young transsexual woman and graduate student who socially transitioned at 9 that will turn 25 in January. She started on Lupron at 12 and cross-sex hormones at 15 with her biggest issue being she was behind the development of her female peers and it took her longer than she would have wished to catch up which was distressing to her

Anecdotal, sure but if we have been destroying the lives of thousands of children, don’t you think they would have stopped doing it by now? I know of at least 6 transsexual women that have been on cross-sex hormones since they were teenagers that now range from 63 to 71 years of age that have had full happy, healthy and productive lives. There’s a 57 y/o YouTuber that started HRT at 15 and another one that turned 50 yesterday that’s been on HRT since 19 and this is also not the horrible and catastrophic disaster that people want to make it out to be.

Are there no risks and we’re sure puberty blockers are completely safe? I think it would be stupid to claim that but are the potential health risks worth the emotional and psychological risks? Will taking a little blue pill once a day for the rest of your life that costs $6 a month be that devastating? I am not claiming there are no risks in any of this but what I am trying to get across is that being trans alone is known to be and proven to be a huge risk and that transgender people are willing to take giant risks to bring congruence to the mind and body. People seem to forget about this.

I know the rebuttal I can expect from my comments. I'm not trying to be argumentative but am trying to be informative or offer food for thought. Just like I think people that get all their news from one place end up with a limited point of view and can form skewed or incomplete opinions, if everyone here only reads how awful trans everything is especially when kids are involved, then they can end up with an incomplete or inaccurate picture.

Like it or not trans has become a part of our world and in one respect or another these folks do have some tough challenges and difficult lives because of them sometimes. The least I think we can do as humans that share a planet together is show them a little dignity and respect and maybe come to have a better understanding of them.

Finally, I started writing a reply to Khaleesi above who seemed to question my involvement in this or questioning if I wasn't a lesbian why I would be talking about them and it turned out to be quite the story of how I came to know trans people and why I'm interested in this and it became quite lengthy, like 2½ posts long and it got pretty personal. I won't post it unless someone wants to know. Thanks!

a reply to: Kalamitous

So, after reading, researching and digesting what you just posted, i actually really enjoyed it and you should continue in this spirit. Hopefully you and Boadicea can start having a constructive debate without the handbags (put that in there to troll the feminist inside you).

As you suggested i'm not qualified to speak about the subject, i simply don't have any direct experience with transgender children.

What i can reflect on is the hugely skewed emphasis on this issue within our media and education system.

My children are not transgender, they have no contact with transgender children. My boy is 10 years old, he doesn't need educating about gender identity or any other fringe demographic within society. If he was to encounter a child who was confused or he was curious about the issue naturally i would be happy to research and educate him. This however is not a natural process for the majority of children and personally i think the tiny fraction of children in this position should not be used to push an agenda which is being hijacked by all sides for their own gain.

a reply to: Kalamitous

Come off it.

My own son in kindergarten told he he wished he'd never been born.

He did it because his brain doesn't work normally. He has a specific learning disability -- disorder of written expression.

But see according to you, the answer would be for me to somehow force his body to match what his brain demands in a physical manner and that fixes the very real fact that his brain simply works differently even though his body is 100% sounds and healthy.

That's no way to go. Instead, we work on retraining his brain where possible and finding ways for him to work around where it isn't. And all the while, we work on his mental health and keeping him positive.

He no longer wants to die, btw.

originally posted by: Grenade
So, after reading, researching and digesting what you just posted, i actually really enjoyed it and you should continue in this spirit. Hopefully you and Boadicea can start having a constructive debate without the handbags (put that in there to troll the feminist inside you).

Thank you! All I can hope with the time I put into doing this is that one or two people will take a few minutes of their time to at least ponder the information and differing perspective I’m trying to present. I applaud your open-minded willingness to explore these issues and wish there were more like you.

Uh, feminist? Feminism lost me decades ago. My mother, figuratively speaking, was a bra burner in the 1960’s when it seemed like feminism really meant something and she was a headstrong ass-kicking woman that didn’t take a lot of nonsense from anyone so naturally, a lot of her attitudes and attributes rubbed off on me. Feminism today seems more like a bunch whiny women that don’t know how good we have it that all seem to be trying to outrank one another in victim and oppression points? I kind of feel sorry for men these days. (kind of) Yeah, I’m a dinosaur and a relic from other times.

As you suggested i'm not qualified to speak about the subject, i simply don't have any direct experience with transgender children.

Everyone can and I’m sure does have an opinions about transgender children. Obviously I do and they have changed over time as I have gained knowledge and personal experience with all this, otherwise, I would be as much in the dark and out of my mind about it all as most here seem to be? It’s easy to say how you might react in any given situation but until it actually happens and becomes real, you don’t really know and might be forced to do some serious reconsidering. There are tons of parents, and not just lefty liberal parents as most seem to think that have had to face this and there are plenty of resources for them available.

What i can reflect on is the hugely skewed emphasis on this issue within our media and education system.

Absolutely! A rare and obscure medical condition has been weaponized and transgender and transsexual people turned into political pawns and because this whole thing seems to be outlandishly outrageous to most, the media has taken the ball and run with it because the controversy created sells newspapers and gets the clicks. Awareness that this phenomenon is a part of the human condition and exists is one thing but turning into a circus sideshow is most unfortunate.

My children are not transgender, they have no contact with transgender children.

That you know of anyway because being transgender is something most would prefer not to advertise. Let me clarify that with some non-PC thoughts and say “real” transgender kids who just want to blend in and don’t want to be seen as any different from the other kids they go to school with. Frequently with children that transition in primary and high school, families will move so their kid can go to a new school where perhaps no one but the administrators are aware of their transgender status.

My boy is 10 years old, he doesn't need educating about gender identity or any other fringe demographic within society.

If this hasn’t come up for your boy yet, it probably will. It’s a hard thing to quantify but research done by the Williams Institute out of UCLA estimates 0.7% of 13 to 17 year olds in the US “identify” as transgender which works out to about 150,000 teenagers. Personally, I think these numbers are higher than reality but even if it’s half or a quarter or even 10% of that, that’s still a lot of kids. As transgender is an umbrella term encompassing a whole boatload of different “identities” like non-binary and the whole ridiculous 92 gender thing which in my opinion is more of a social phenomenon than a medical one, your son is highly likely to encounter this soon in one form or another.

… personally i think the tiny fraction of children in this position should not be used to push an agenda which is being hijacked by all sides for their own gain.

The agenda being pushed is tolerance and acceptance and to not bully or discriminate against people for their differences but I hear you though, even this has been weaponized and turned into a polarizing issue. It’s sad.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Come off it.

My own son in kindergarten told he he wished he'd never been born.

Yeah, I’m sure I said that a time or two myself out of frustration or anger as a kid? In fact, I remember once for certain I did as a teenager during a big fight I was having with my mom as I slammed my door and locked myself in my room. I’m sure my daughter did too akin to “I guess I’ll go eat worms” or something?

He did it because his brain doesn't work normally. He has a specific learning disability -- disorder of written expression.

I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve read about dysgraphia. Frustrating and maybe embarrassing for him too I would imagine and they estimate 8 to 15% of school age children have this problem. I understand it’s also often associated with other disorders and disabilities like ADD and dyslexia so I hope the scope of your son’s affliction is limited.

From what I’ve read though, this doesn’t result the same documented 40 to 50% rate of attempted suicide experienced by transgender youth so it's hard for me to make a logical comparison between the two conditions? Just sayin’.

But see according to you, the answer would be for me to somehow force his body to match what his brain demands in a physical manner and that fixes the very real fact that his brain simply works differently even though his body is 100% sounds and healthy.

Why would you attribute such ridiculous things to me and boy, that’s quite the leap I must say.

That's no way to go. Instead, we work on retraining his brain where possible and finding ways for him to work around where it isn't. And all the while, we work on his mental health and keeping him positive.

He no longer wants to die, btw.

Well that’s good. It sounds like your efforts are paying off and I hope he continues to improve.

I'm curious if anyone has seen how this has been discredited yet?

A recent article published by Catholic news outlet LifeSiteNews alleged that the drugs used to treat gender dysphoria in some transgender children are linked to “thousands” of deaths.

The story went viral on right-wing news websites such as the Christian Post and the Daily Wire. According to CrowdTangle, a social media metric platform, these posts — including shares by Daily Wire founder Ben Shapiro and commentator Matt Walsh — are currently some of the top performing LGBTQ-related content on Facebook and Twitter.

The problem is: the “thousands” of people who die while taking these drugs are likely the terminally ill cancer patients who receive hormone blockers to fight hormone-sensitive cancers, like prostate cancer, according to experts.

Joshua Safer, a professor of medicine and the executive director of the Mt. Sinai Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery, said Lupron, or leoprolide acetate, is used for treating precocious puberty, infertility and certain types of cancer, particularly prostate cancer.

Prostate cancer is worsened by the presence of certain hormones, so people fighting this disease are sometimes given hormone blockers — puberty blockers — to slow the cancer’s progression.

“I think all they did is went into the FDA database and looked at reports,” Safer said. “There’s no study here, that’s just a big smorgasbord of reports and so the problem with that is you don't even know that those deaths are connected to the agent they are reported to be connected to.”

Link

This is that whole "fake news" thing you guys always talk about. LOL forum anyone?

a reply to: underwerks

Qualified, perhaps, but not discredited. The numbers are what the numbers are: the number of adverse events associated with these drugs' use reported to the FDA. And it is true that some of the adverse events reported may actually be caused by something else.

But it is factually and intellectually dishonest to suggest that most, or even many, of these reports of deaths are actually attributed to the disease and not the drug.... Doctors and patients know their condition and prognosis. They know the symptoms of the disease and the symptoms of the negative reactions and adverse events. Doctors and patients do not make frivolous reports. To blow off these reports so recklessly and irresponsibly -- especially with absolutely no facts to make such an assertion -- is contrary to every principle of evidenced based medicine. They cannot ALL be dismissed so cavalierly. If there are any deaths associated with these drugs' use, it is important to know.