If it took 30,000 years to recover from "Dino-killer"...

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
a reply to: Blaine91555

i think anything further back than a couple of thousand years is entirely guesswork. only stone survives the ages. technology is made of metal and plastics, these things disappear over aeons.

What... lead, gold, silver, platinum, DU, and many many others things would weather time far better than stone.

If a cataclysmic event destroyed humanity and screwed up the majority of the land there would still be traces of our civilization being found hundreds of millions of years later.

Theoretically speaking, can't carbon fiber last "forever"? Plane fuselages are made out of carbon reinforced polymer which, if not constantly exposed to intense UV rays, can supposedly last "forever" and not degrade. Unless my understanding is misinformed...

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Clear your head, and have fun, Ill miss you. Take care!

PS If you ever venture into California, you and your wife are welcome to stay here. Id love to have you both as house guests. You could help me with my garden

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Lumenari

Isn't that kind of a pocket full of crystals for good luck argument? Romanticizing what early humans would have been like?

If they were more advanced, where is the evidence of the evolution of that society to reach that point? Advanced societies don't just pop up with no history behind them.

Unless you're talking about visitors from elsewhere which would be a different topic for another thread I think.

The Hopi believe that this is the 4th time the earth has been remade, it terms of human civilization.

Of course, they also believe that they're originally not from this planet, so yes, perhaps it would be a topic for another thread.

One of my close friends is Hopi. We have discussed these things before. I wish I could get him to come on here. He did have some worries about the future

Well, the Eagle has landed on the moon, after all...

A Hopi reference.

I'm leaving civilization for a bit and going to the real Oraibi.

To get my head straight... I'm starting to think in English and that's never a good sign.

I'll miss y'all but will be back.

A little more grounded, I would hope.

I've family in Fort Bragg and we visit occasionally. I'd love to say hi!

It was nice that my last post for a bit was to you...

Thanks friend.

a reply to: Lumenari Interesting reading, 'Depp Time', by Gregory Benford, on how we communicate through thousands of years. One item that would remain from our time would be atomic waste, and we need to figure how to mark them as a bad thing, to future people or beings, who may well be unlikely to understand any of our languages or writings. Sum: big stones, and ugly and foreboding as possible. Who knows, they may be precious minerals to them!

I think the biggest issue is current perspectives are tainted.

We're assuming that potential past ancient advance civilizations followed a progressive and rate advancement similar to our own.

Perhaps they advanced in other ways lost to us?

a reply to: TheRepublicOfCanada

Depends on what you mean by recover.

But even if there were much more advanced civilizations then this current one. Then by now ie today, not much if anything would remain if things went south on a global scale. If a blast that big would hit today, not much would remain of our civilization in the next 30,000 years, much less millions and million of years latter. Even the stones will be gone.

Our modern skyscrapers would be dust for sure if anywere near or even not that near the blast, and anything that remained in time would decompose and become dust, yes even giant steel and stone building. I mean look at the Titanic, thats an extreme case as seawater will eat away steel and iron like nothing, but even exposed to air and the elements in time it would still be gone even if it took longer.

And everything else, well even these man made objects which were laying around for a few years is integrated back into nature, some the trees are eating them. Like George Carlin said, if plastic is not degradable, then well earth+plastic, but plastic to in time will be gone. As for the dinos? Its always funny when people think they know how things were millions and millions of years ago, when they can barely grasp there day to day existence. At one time they were scaly lizards now there feathered lizards, in time we may even learn more...Or not.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Long after the titanic rusts to nothing there will still be evidence left behind of the people that once lived and died on it. All the jewelry people wore made of gold and silver will still be there.

Steel will rust away with enough time but not the things made out of elements. Why hasn't anyone found these things if there was some great civilization back then? There would be some form of proof of them, but there isn't.

a reply to: Mach2

There are some pretty spify metals out there, the newer Nitrogen and Niobium steels do outperform stainless steels in corrosion no matter how high they put stainless steels chromium content. But even they are not 100% resistance proof, if left in salt water they to will be gone, lets just say that if the titanic or buildings were made of stainless steels which would not happen as it would break in two as stainless steels are brittle, or even nitrogen steels.

Something like the titanic at the bottom of the ocean it would take basically a few generations more for it to be gone.

Then there is stuff like what you said inconel, and things like stellite and talonite. I sometimes make knifes as a hobby, and thought about making one out of talonite from what i read around you can leave it in the ocean come back in a 1000 years and have anything but minor rust on it, and it has the melting point somewere bellow titanium, but still higher then normal steel and iron even inconel, I looked and inconel even has a lower melting point then even steel does.

But things like that it is pretty much # for a knife as it wont hold an edge for long.

However even if something like the titanic was made completely made out of something like talonite or titanium, or inconel it to would be gone eventually and not likely in the hundreds of thousands of years there at the ocean bottom. On land not really applicable as it may be to brittle or to soft of a building material, and more importantly way to expensive to make any buildings out of it, but in time that to would be gone even if they were.

At the end of the day, nothing lasts forever. And even if millions of years ago they had whole cities build out of what we call today super steels, almost impervious to rust or decay or the weather then today they to would be gone and dust given the time and all the things which happen on this planet.

The only way they would still be around is if this whole planet would either be a ice ball to preserve everything or a dust bowl no wind no rain and not things growing.

But if that were so, then no life would be around including humans. So either way. Gone with the wind.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Silver and gold are not exactly stuff that lasts, a heat wave or hickup and to much sun would melt that stuff away and back into the bedrock in no time at all, a meteor blast would pretty much disintegrate that stuff like nothing. Gold is pretty much stain proof even in salt water however. But there is much more to contend with out there then salt water and rust.

If your saying why are there not trinkets made out of gold or silver out there from eons past. Well, trinkets dont last. You could drop a gold pendant at the bottom of the ocean and it will never rust and be there forever in its shinny glory, however it will likely be buried and crushed under the pressure and turn back into a mold or ingot at those pressures, if not be melted away by the underwater volcanoes in a fraction of the time.

A meteor blast or a volcano exploding or a super volcano, would pretty much leave nothing left behind. I mean look at this guy. He lost his head to a rock from the sky during the Pompey explosion, now times that by a million over a million years and you may get the picture. No doubt more then a few were wearing spiffy shiny stuff at Pompey it was pretty prosperous town back then, but even that was gone, by nature. And yes even other humans checking through the wreckage some many many years latter and picking up shinny jewelry is part of nature.

I remember seeingreading somewhere that the "bacteria-line", the depth at which bacteria can and do live on the planet, is extremely deep and it would in fact be VERY difficult to kill all life on the planet.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

First of all, they found all kinds of jewelry buried at Pompeii with the people. Second gold doesn't rust nor many other elements used as jewelry. Third, after 12 feet, underground the pressure isn't going to rise to an extent to crush those artifacts. It is why you can make one tunnel under another after 12 to 15 feet without risking the structural integrity. fourth the pressure of water will not crush gold into a mold if it is dropped into the ocean.

Then for the premise of the thread that an advanced civilization on par with ours existed millions of years ago. If one existed it would be spread out the traces of it would be left everywhere and we know approximately how bad the catastrophes were back then. They were not enough to wipe out all traces of an advanced civilization. If there was such a civilization we would have found traces just like we found dinosaur bones and other remains from that period.

a reply to: charlyv

Or looked at another way - the advanced space faring starseed aliens ( humans ) bombarded the planet with a dinosaur killer projectile, paving the way for terraforming. They are now the ants slaving away for the gods, until the Engineers return and "thin out" the herd again.

originally posted by: charlyv
The planet still, has not gotten over it.

The event produced a species that poisons the environment, kills it's own kind for power and entertainment as well as many other noble creatures, disrespects the rights of most all creatures by comprising their habitat and let's its waste and trash pollute the very water everything requires to survive.

Life re-emerged quickly all right, and with a vengeance probably worse than a world of large scaly monsters.

Life on earth has seen at least 5 major mass extinctions in the last 500 million years that ranged from 75% to 96% all life destroyed. Earth has also seen around 4 snowball earths with one lasting 100 million years where life was almost incapable past simple one cell life forms. Though life started around 4 billion years ago it took over 3 billion years for life to evolve past very simple stages.

Species come and go, that is what they do and that my friend will never stop. Humans have not been kind to many species but compared to good old mother earth we are a flea on an elephant in terms of destruction. Earth doesn't care, earth will continue on, but in totally different directions once mammals have had their turn, and humans will just be another bygone species as the last trillion has been.

a reply to: TheRepublicOfCanada

Possibly lots of plastic

Possibly.

a reply to: sunkuong

If it was like our civilization the sheer amount of computer chips foud would be abundant throughout the world. Many of which have rare metals in them so the designs would be prominent even if everything else turned to dust.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: TheRepublicOfCanada

Plastic. Loads of plastic.

Edit: oh wait, that’d melt. But there would some trace of it.

You forgot twinkies they will probably still be edible.

I’m English so sadly lost on me but I get the jist.

You seem to forget one thing.
The government does Not want you
to know about this kind of thing.
why? many reasons.

stories of old god are from primitive people.
primitive people would see US as gods!
and one day will...

a reply to: Grimpachi

Huh! Your talking about pompeii and jewlery?

Pompey aint even a mosquito fart.

And I did say that one of the traits of gold is that it does not rust, but again, and jewelry does not mean much in 10 million years.

In fact if they want to leave behind some human remains for the long run. Dont dig up that headless guy at pompeii. Leave him there being covered in ash is a great way to leave behind some fossils in 10 million years or so. A few more eruptions, the seas rising up, then subsiding, some landmasses inching, some growth, some fall, trees taking over, then buried again, deserts rolling in, then out, and who knows, maybe one day somebody in that future will find some human fossils on that spot.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Landmasses inching? Do you mean Pangea being broken up?

I totally disagree about 10 mil years making things like recognizable jewelry unrecognizable. Things made out of elements would remain the same without outside force and even then the dispersion and general shapes would still be recognized.

The claim is there was some civilization from millions of years ago on par with ours. If that was true there would be abundant artifacts of it spread across the world. You would also find fossils of the people just like we find fossils of the Dinos. It is an interesting idea but there is no evidence of it. Even if there was some type of civilization they wouldn't have been human since mammals didn't even become a thing for millions of years later.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Dude for some reason your under the impression that the earth and everything on it is a complete and sealed off vacum chamber were nothing ever happens. If you think your gold pendant will be here in 10 million years.

Talk about dreaming.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Well, believe what you want. You obviously are anyway, devoid of a single shred of evidence and in opposition of the facts.