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Whistle blower allegation proves dems, media corruption in Biden Ukraine story

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posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Extorris

John Kerry was Secretary of State during this time. His step son was also on the board in question. Perhaps we need to investigate them too? Why isn't Trump all over that? Oh I know, Kerry's not running for president.


edit on 23-9-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: Extorris

You know I was referring to Biden Sr who should not have been involved in this issue due to the impropriety of his own son's involvement with an investigation. Why he did not let another handle such negotiation is beyond me.

I am sick of hearing 'Intent' was not there, so all is good...just careless. Time for all politicians to face responsibility of their actions and poor decisions.

Just as a drunk driver never intended to run someone over or a woman never intended to get pregnant! Lack of intent does not absolve one from responsibilty for one's poor decision nor actions.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Extorris

John Kerry was Secretary of State during this time. His step son was also on the board in question. Perhaps we need to investigate them too? Why isn't Trump all over that? Oh I know, Kerry's not running for president.



You may be confusing your Biden family international cronyism issues.

Kerry's stepson was a partner with Hunter Biden and Whitey Bulger's nephew in the CHINA deal.



Hunter Biden’s China Deal Partners Include Mobster Whitey Bulger’s Nephew, John Kerry’s Stepson

freebeacon.com...



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: Extorris

Biden Sr who should not have been involved in this issue due to the impropriety of his own son's involvement with an investigation. Why he did not let another handle such negotiation is beyond me.

I am sick of hearing 'Intent' was not there, so all is good...just careless. Time for all politicians to face responsibility of their actions and poor decisions.



OK, so we have VP Joe Biden, who should not have been involved in calling for the firing because his son was one of many that sat on an energy companies board that at one time the prosecutor was investigating.

DOJ can investigate if they like, though I am pretty sure the outcome will be at best "poor decision", nothing illegal, but have at it even if I think it improper to use DOJ to selectively pursue cases for political purposes where no evidence has been presented that anything illegal occurred.

At the same time a sitting President of the United States extorted a foreign nations security and safety, holding up funds appropriated by congress, in trade for foreign assistance in his Presidential campaign.

I am OK with getting to the bottom of both via appropriate channels. DOJ can examine if Biden did anything wrong and Congress should immediately introduces articles of impeachment and Subpoena all relevant records, transcripts, Rudy and team and the President himself should testify. SCOTUS can immediately jump in if the obstruction continues under impeachment proceedings (like US vs. Nixon).




edit on 23-9-2019 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Extorris
what crime are you impeaching for?


www.washingtonexaminer.com...



Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko denied reports that President Trump pressured Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky during a July phone call that is reportedly the subject of a whistleblower complaint.



Prystaiko, however, dismissed the claims in a Saturday interview, saying, "I know what the conversation was about, and I think there was no pressure. This conversation was long, friendly, and it touched on many questions, sometimes requiring serious answers."


with what evidence?
this is from the Ukrainians....


edit on 23/9/2019 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
what crime are you impeaching for?



"Orange Man Bad!"



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
what crime are you impeaching for?



Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: Extorris
You have a statute on "abuse of power"?
Executive privilege trumps your other 2 "crimes"

Cause you do understand potus calls with other world leaders would fall under "executive privilege"?




Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress

all based on what has been quoted as second hand information?
you do understand the "whistleblower" did not hear the phone conversation?

edit on 23/9/2019 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Mostly, I think you have presented a good argument. However, there are some points that I think your partisan slant has caused you to draw incorrect conclusions. For example you stated:



Intel Agencies Spy on Trump

The most basic thing this whistle blower claim shows is that once more, Trump is correct that the intel agencies spy on him. He was laughed at ridiculed when he made this claim before the election and was proven correct (as we know spies and wiretaps were sent to members of his team) and we see this behavior continues.

Unless there is evidence of an absolute clearcut crime, no intel agent should have the right to report something like this. If its this is the new norm, any intel person can report anything they here that is against their politics. Obama talking about cash to Iran, or improving relations with Chin, etc., all could have been found troubling by intel agents. So if congress gets to hear about conversations one guy disliked from Trump, then they should also get access to all of Obama’s calls, and any other President, on issues that could be politically charged.


Anytime the president has a conversation with a foreign leader the intel community is listening in. It isn't spying, it is to protect the interests of the American people and the president. If the leader the president talks to trys to pull something over on him, the intel community is there to help him not be taken advantage of. This is normal behavior, not in any way spying.

I suppose I can understand why you believe Trump was spied upon, considering he made that accusation late Saturday night.


“It appears that an American spy in one of our intelligence agencies may have been spying on our own president. The complaint suggests that this intel agent was listening in on Trump’s conversation....


twitter.com...

Yet, 17 hours later he even admitted himself that he was aware that the intel community listens in on his conversations.

twitter.com...



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
You have a statute on "abuse of power"?
Executive privilege trumps your other 2 "crimes"

Cause you do understand potus calls with other world leaders would fall under "executive privilege"?




Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress

all based on what has been quoted as second hand information?
you do understand the "whistleblower" did not hear the phone conversation?


My mind can be changed if Trump releases the transcript where he discussed Joe Biden with Ukrainian President (according to Trump) and turns over documents relating to the meeting he had the US State Department arrange for his personal Attorney and an Aide to the Ukrainian President discussing re-opening an investigation into Biden (according to Rudy) as well as all documented deliberations on the mysterious hold he put on the Military Aid appropriated by congress for Ukraine.

It's possible it all just looks like an insane Abuse of Power and extorting a foreign country to help him with his presidential campaign. Absent Trump clearing it up, impeachment proceedings are necessary.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Extorris
I am not really interested in changing your mind.
Executive privilege protects potus's conversations.
Exactly for this reason.
It is a separation of powers issue.
The dems can take it to the scotus if they like.

Why you are disregarding the statement from the Ukraine minister I do not understand.




Absent Trump clearing it up, impeachment proceedings are necessary.

That is not how the process works.
You should look into that.




edit on 23/9/2019 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
You have a statute on "abuse of power"?
Executive privilege trumps your other 2 "crimes"



Impeachment is not a legal proceeding, thus there is not a statute for "Abuse of Power".

You should review US Government 101.

Executive Privilege does not trump Subpoenaed materials in Impeachment Proceedings.

SCOTUS ruled UNANIMOUSLY on that USA vs. NIXON

And BTW, Nixon was impeached for Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress.


edit on 23-9-2019 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: Extorris



Impeachment is not a legal proceeding, thus there is not a statute for "Abuse of Power".

no but classified info is
which is what the communications of a potus with a foreign head of state is

I HOPE the dems take this one to court.

you should look into presidential communications privilege
courts have ruled that the presidential communications privilege “is rooted in constitutional separation of powers principles and the President’s unique constitutional role”



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
You have a statute on "abuse of power"?
Executive privilege trumps your other 2 "crimes"

Cause you do understand potus calls with other world leaders would fall under "executive privilege"?




Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress

all based on what has been quoted as second hand information?
you do understand the "whistleblower" did not hear the phone conversation?


Executive privilege is intended to shield the internal communications of the president and his advisors from disclosure. The Trump administration is attempting to redefine executive privilege to mean "No one can see anything I am doing because I am the president". That is a very dangerous precedent to set indeed. If the Trump admins version of executive privilege is allowed to stand then future presidents, from either party, can pretty much do whatever they please.

However, during the Watergate scandal, the Supreme Court ruled that executive privilege cannot be used to shield a president from an impeachment from Congress.


One lesson of U.S. v. Nixon is that an executive privilege claim is particularly weak when Congress has invoked its power to remove a president from office through impeachment, said Frank Bowman, a law professor at the University of Missouri.

In the impeachment context, “virtually no part of a president’s duties or behavior is exempt from scrutiny,” Bowman said.


www.reuters.com... P1

As it happens, the House has already begun impeachment hearings against the president. If they subpoena the whistleblower complaint, transcript, and recording executive privilege will not protect this president. However, with Bill Barr serving as a personal fixer for this president, it is very unclear how anyone would enforce these laws.

On the second-hand knowledge objection. There is a very small list of individuals who would listen in on the presidents calls live. However, there is a larger, but still small, group of people who would have access to the transcripts. While the whistleblower probably didn't hear the call live, they did see the transcript. On top of that, a Trump-appointed official has declared this complaint to be urgent and serious.

Are you honestly saying that these complaints should not be investigated? Are you saying you think the Presidency is above the law?



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris



Impeachment is not a legal proceeding, thus there is not a statute for "Abuse of Power".

no but classified info is
which is what the communications of a potus with a foreign head of state is



Specifically the material must contain Diplomatic or Military secrets according to SCOTUS before only redactions are permitted, but the material must be turned over regardless.

Nixon originally turned over redacted materials and tapes and claimed Executive Privilege.

The courts ruled unanimously against Executive Privilege.

Trump can try and convince his intelligence community to redact non-secret material in the conversation, or the word "Biden" etc. and claim that is "Secret", but I doubt so many folks want to go to jail.

More to the point, Trump launching a defensive legal filing claiming that a conversation talking to Ukrainian President about re-opening an investigation into his political rival in 2020 is a National "Secret".

Right..Go for that. SCOTUS will be very receptive. Ditto the public at large.
edit on 23-9-2019 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:23 AM
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Did you hear Rudy Guiliani this morning? He straight-up accused the Bidens of laundering money for the Ukrainians. $3 Million routed thru a few different shills (including Biden's son's company) to get the money into the United States without it being tied to Ukraine.

He also implied that Joe Biden was lying when he said he only mentioned the matter once, and that they can prove it.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
Did you hear Rudy Guiliani this morning? He straight-up accused the Bidens of laundering money for the Ukrainians. $3 Million routed thru a few different shills (including Biden's son's company) to get the money into the United States without it being tied to Ukraine.

He also implied that Joe Biden was lying when he said he only mentioned the matter once, and that they can prove it.


Trump should dump Giuliani. Having a raving lunatic speak on his behalf does not help his cause.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: IAMTAT




Kerry's stepson was a partner with Hunter Biden and Whitey Bulger's nephew in the CHINA deal.


Ooh. stand corrected.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
You have a statute on "abuse of power"?
Executive privilege trumps your other 2 "crimes"

Cause you do understand potus calls with other world leaders would fall under "executive privilege"?




Abuse of Power, Obstruction and Contempt of Congress

all based on what has been quoted as second hand information?
you do understand the "whistleblower" did not hear the phone conversation?


Executive privilege is intended to shield the internal communications of the president and his advisors from disclosure. The Trump administration is attempting to redefine executive privilege to mean "No one can see anything I am doing because I am the president". That is a very dangerous precedent to set indeed.


It doesn't fly.

LOL, this is what Nixon's attorney told the US District Courts when Nixon was trying to employ Executive Privilege and not turn over documents.

"The President wants me to argue that he is as powerful a monarch as Louis XIV, only four years at a time, and is not subject to the processes of any court in the land except the court of impeachment."

Of course it went to SCOTUS and SCOTUS ruled unanimously that Exec Privilege does not over-ride Subpoena's.

They left room in the ruling for Military or Diplomatic Secrets to be redacted.

If Trump wants to claim his conversations with the Ukrainian Presdient regarding Biden are National Secrets and convinces some wonk in the intel community to redact those portions, that will obviously open up a new can of worms in itself and not be accepted by any court.



posted on Sep, 23 2019 @ 11:37 AM
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can someone give me a link to the start of the impeachment hearings?


the person making that claim (Gorgonite) will suffice (but his last link was broken)

I do not think impeachment hearings have started.


thanks in advance.

the other question I have is how does the whitehouse know of a whistleblower?



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