Whistle blower allegation proves dems, media corruption in Biden Ukraine story

originally posted by: Grambler
The Democrats and the media are deeply concerned about new claims that a whistle blower in the intelligence community reportedly filed a concern with the intelligence IG over something troubling he heard Trump say to a foreign leader. Reports are now this was most likely with a foreign leader from the Ukraine, and the troubling comment had something to do with a promise Trump made

If that is true, it is most likely relating to Trump wanting the Ukraine to investigate corruption into a company Joe Biden’s son Hunter was on the board of, and more importantly to investigate possible corruption in the actions of Joe Biden withholding one billion dollars in aid to the Ukraine in 2014 until they fired the prosecutor that was looking into the company his son worked for.

The main point of this thread will be that it is my contention that the real story here is sowing how the media and the Democrats have turned a blind eye to Biden’s (and Obama’s) corruption, and are basically demanding Trump be punished for an almost identical incident of what Biden did, only in a less severe way and with much less evidence.

I will go through the allegations of exactly what Biden did, using both John Solomon from the Hill (a left leaning site though admittedly Solomon has been one of the forefront reporters on the intel agencies corruption) and Politifact (left leaning). The reason I chose Politifact is that this was the article that was shown on a thread as proof Biden did nothing I wrong.

But I will briefly hit on some other points as well.

Intel Agencies Spy on Trump

The most basic thing this whistle blower claim shows is that once more, Trump is correct that the intel agencies spy on him. He was laughed at ridiculed when he made this claim before the election and was proven correct (as we know spies and wiretaps were sent to members of his team) and we see this behavior continues.

Unless there is evidence of an absolute clearcut crime, no intel agent should have the right to report something like this. If its this is the new norm, any intel person can report anything they here that is against their politics. Obama talking about cash to Iran, or improving relations with Chin, etc., all could have been found troubling by intel agents. So if congress gets to hear about conversations one guy disliked from Trump, then they should also get access to all of Obama’s calls, and any other President, on issues that could be politically charged.


Does this make Trump guilty

Keep in mind we have no idea what was actually said during this call. So until we get the exact details, everything is speculation.

I can make this prediction though, whatever was said, the democrats and media will say its damning and grounds for impeachment.

So what could he said that would rise to that threshold?

For me, if he promised Ukraine aid or money, or threatened to withhold it, unless they FOUND Biden or his son guilty, that would be grounds for impeachment. That is because Trump would be placing conditions on the outcome of an investigation, which would destroy the fairness and justice of that investigation.

I would say that the chances of that are extremely low but would be very critical of Trump if that is what he said.

Less egregious would be if he withheld aid unless the Ukraine cooperated with US officials in investigating Biden or his son’s company. Now this is still a little shady, but not unprecedented. The US frequently places conditions on aid such as helping fight terrorists or helping with criminal investigations into corruption.

This is the most likely scenario that could be considered shady in my opinion. I do not think this is grounds for impeachment.

The irony is of course the very people that will think this is grounds for impeachment ignore that this is a very similar to what Biden did, only his case personally affected his family. Biden withheld a billion dollars of aid unless the Ukraine FIRED the prosecutor who happened to be looking into his son’s company.

What did Biden do
So here I will just outline the bare facts that we absolutely know to be true (I’ll provide sources for all of this later in the thread). I’m not going to go to much into exactly what Biden’s son’s company was accused of here, but I will provide sources.


Biden’s son Hunter was on the board of a company Burisma, that was owned by a man from Ukraine connected to the ousted former Ukrainian President and was being investigated by the Ukrainian government and others for corruption. Joe Biden admits that Obama gave him the authority to withhold a billion dollars of aid to the Ukraine unless they fired their head prosecutor, a man named Shokin. Shokin was the prosecutor looking into Bursima, the company Biden’s son was on the board of. After Shokin was fired, a prosecutor, Lutsenko, who was “solid” according to Biden took over, and the billion dollars was sent. The investigation in Burisma were handed off to a different office in the Ukraine, that office failed to file paperwork in time, and the investigation into Burisma was stopped.

To the best of my knowledge, none of these facts are in dispute.

I would argue that these alone are enough to show terrible corruption by Biden (and Obama), or at least warrant concern and investigation by the same media and Democrats that are concerned with this whistleblower story, but I digress.

(continued below)

The ENTIRETY OF THE DEMOCRAT/LEFTIST DC RABBLE... is terrified about the forthcoming IG Report on the origins of the !RUSSIA! investigation.... they are grasping desperately for a story to displace the news cycle, and keep it busy until well after the IG report becomes public.

The buzz is, that the IG will find all four FISA applications as fraudulently obtained. That on it's face will cause a s**tstorm. Dig beneath the veneer, and we re talking about conspiracy and sedition. Add the backchannel shenanigans with outside Intel agencies and consultation with America's enemies, advising them to "wait out Trump", and it's straight up treason.

Yeah... at the very least, there's some very unflattering stories rolling down the side of the mountain towards the American polity, and it's going to hit right as we move into the election year.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Breaking on FOX: Ukrainian Pres. just denied Trump put pressure on him to investigate Biden.

I’m looking for a link

If you find one I’d very much like to see that

Just announced as breaking on FOX (Cavuto Live).

Well here is an article where the foriegn minsiter says no pressure was placed on them

Minister of Foreign Affairs Vadym Prystaiko denies the information that U.S. state leader Donald Trump puts pressure on Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky. The Head of the Ministry stated that during the interview with Hromadske on the occasion of The Wall Street Journal publication. The article told about Trump reportedly asked Zelensky to help Giuliani to investigate the work of Joe Biden's son in Ukraine.

112.international...

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Extorris
a reply to: Grambler

That does not AT ALL support your BS claim that the investigation was active.

Docs likely identified dozens if not hundreds of people to follow up with.

It says nothing about the investigation being active at the time Biden AND THE REST OF THE WORLD called for the apparently corrupt prosecutor to be canned. They were actually looking for a Prosecutor that would PROSECUTE>

Where is your proof the investigation was inactive again?

I have the prosecutor saying it was

No you dont.

You haven't posted anything anywhere showing it was active.

You posted an account that documents showed Hunter among people to follow up with. It doesn't say the investigation was active.

THE DEPUTY PROSECUTOR (#2) SAID IT WAS SHELVED/INACTIVE/NADA NOTHING When Biden (AND EVERYONE ELSE) called for the ousting of the do-nothing prosecutor.

The ACTUAL PROSECUTOR #1 said he was investigating

That is not what you claimed though.
You said the CURRENT PROSECUTOR provided documents showing the investigation was ongoing when the last Prosecutor was fired.

IT WAS NOT.

The FIRED CORRUPT PROSECUTOR said he "had plans" to continue investigating.

While THE DEPUTY PROSECUTOR (#2) SAID IT WAS SHELVED/INACTIVE/NADA NOTHING When Biden (AND EVERYONE ELSE) called for the ousting of the do-nothing prosecutor.

NEITHER of those statements say the investigation was open and ongoing and one of those statements (The NOT-disgraced and fired Deputy Prosecutor) clearly says it was shelved.

a reply to: Extorris

Yes current officials provided the documents I mentioned

And of course, predictably you claim the 2 guy must be believed , and the #1 must have lied

Absolutely pathetic

If this was trump there is no way you would say it was perfectly legit

Btw, if the #2 guy was so trust worthy, why didn’t he go after Bursima once the corrupt guy was gone?

Why is the current prosecutor saying the investigation was buried?

I guess he must be a liar too, right?

a reply to: Grambler

I watched a Q&A with Biden this morning at some state fair.

He accused Trump of using the power of his office and the threat of withholding funds in order for the Ukrainians to do something.

I had to check the batteries in my hearing aids.

Isn't that what Biden did, according to Biden?

a reply to: IAMTAT

Bulger and Bidens son I am sure go along....

Kicked out of Navy

No charges???

Biden needs to burn...his drug addict son and his hair sniffing issues...

IMagine if Don Jr got caught with coke...nuclear...

Great OP Grambler.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Yes current officials provided the documents I mentioned

And of course, predictably you claim the 2 guy must be believed , and the #1 must have lied

The #1 was ousted after the UN, IMF, European Leaders and YES the USA said he was corrupt.

Even then, what you are claiming is that THAT GUY said he "had plans" to continue the investigation, NOT that it was ongoing at the time. The whole idea he had to say..."I had plans" aka "I would have" rather than "It was active and ongoing" tells you everything you need to know.

Pretty plain and simple.

originally posted by: Grambler

Btw, if the #2 guy was so trust worthy, why didn’t he go after Bursima once the corrupt guy was gone?

Perhaps because there was nothing to do? The evidence did not warrant prosecution?
Bizarre that you begin with the presumption of guilt.

a reply to: Grambler

So the disgraced and ousted Prosecutor said "I had plans" to investigate, which AT BEST for your argument admits he was not ACTIVELY investigating, he just says he "Had Plans", which is suspect in itself.

BUT NO, what he says above does not say it was "Active" or "Ongoing".

vs.

The #2 who worked under him the whole time:

“There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Vitaliy Kasko, a former official in the prosecutor general’s office, told Bloomberg News in an article published May 7.

“It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

nymag.com...
www.bloomberg.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Yes current officials provided the documents I mentioned

And of course, predictably you claim the 2 guy must be believed , and the #1 must have lied

The #1 was ousted after the UN, IMF, European Leaders and YES the USA said he was corrupt.

Even then, what you are claiming is that THAT GUY said he "had plans" to continue the investigation, NOT that it was ongoing at the time. The whole idea he had to say..."I had plans" aka "I would have" rather than "It was active and ongoing" tells you everything you need to know.

Pretty plain and simple.

originally posted by: Grambler

Btw, if the #2 guy was so trust worthy, why didn’t he go after Bursima once the corrupt guy was gone?

Perhaps because there was nothing to do? The evidence did not warrant prosecution?
Bizarre that you begin with the presumption of guilt.

Hunter got paid $50,000 a MONTH to sit on the board of a gas company in the Ukraine. It started days after his daddy went and had a "visit" with some Ukrainians.

Hunter doesnt have any experience in the Ukraine or in the gas industry.

$50,000 a MONTH! To do what? That was part of the investigation.

His daddy was the most influential US politician dealing with the ukraine at the time.

I dont see how we all cant see a conflict of interest here!

But on another subject, $50k a month and this guy can understand the problems of the working poor.... right?

Lolz🤪

a reply to: Scepticaldem

You are changing topics, but I'll answer anyways

It was an ethical breach by Hunter Biden

Board members can be paid any amount. Walmart pays it's board members around 300k per annum in cash and stock, Typical pay for a board member of smaller companies can be between 50k - 150k.

But companies can pay board members whatever they like.

There is no evidence of quid-pro-quo here and there is a tonnage of factual circumstances (UN, IMF, EU and everyone else calling for the ouster of this prosecutor) to suggest it had nothing to do with Biden Senior. And the case had already been shelved and Biden Jr. was just one board member among many.

originally posted by: Extorris
a reply to: Scepticaldem

You are changing topics, but I'll answer anyways

It was an ethical breach by Hunter Biden

Board members can be paid any amount. Walmart pays it's board members around 300k per annum in cash and stock, Typical pay for a board member of smaller companies can be between 50k - 150k.

But companies can pay board members whatever they like.

There is no evidence of quid-pro-quo here and there is a tonnage of factual circumstances (UN, IMF, EU and everyone else calling for the ouster of this prosecutor) to suggest it had nothing to do with Biden Senior. And the case had already been shelved and Biden Jr. was just one board member among many.

Joe told cnn as of today 9/21/19 that he has never talked to Hunter about any of his overseas dealings.

So yea, I believe that and I also believe you bringing up what people at walmart make per year has alot to do with any of this.

Joe first heard about Hunter working in the ukraine from the media.

That sounds just like when obama first heard about Hillary's private server from the media..... even though he emailed it many times

Try harder with your deflecting. Biden is a crook that got his kid a $50k a month job in the country he had the most influence over.

Lolz🤪

a reply to: Extorris

So trump can withhold funds from any country for investigating his son

All he needs is some people to say they are disgraced

So dumb it defies belief

a reply to: Grambler

The only difference here is first, Ukranian autorities reached out Trump first alleging that Biden withheld money from Ukraine only if they fired the prosecutor which was investigating corruption in the company owned in part by Hunter Biden. BTW, this company is also owned by JOhn Kerry's son, and another rich liberal. Second, Ukraine was involved in helping the HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN. So it is possible this is a set up to try to get POTUS Trump into yet another "fabricated scandal."

Even Biden himself in one of his speeches bragged that he withheld the money from Ukraine, but now he is claiming this is false. POTUS Trump asked Ukraine to investigate if it was true because if the charges are true Biden bribed and committed fraud which is a REAL corruption case. This is an specific case which if true is an actual crime.

POTUS Obama and his administration used lies from the Russians, and used those lies to spy on EVERYTHING and EVERYONE involved with the Trump campaign, and later a sitting POTUS.

One is a REAL CRIME and should be investigated, the other is corruption and abuse of power to spy on the political opposition.

BTW, Joe Biden also bragged about getting the Ukranian prosecutor investigating his son's company fired, and in that same conversation he stated he withheld over a billion dollars from Ukraine unless that prosecutor was fired...



This is a REAL CASE OF CORRUPTION...

Here is some more information about another company in which Biden's son was involved in from March 2018..

Inside the shady private equity firm run by Kerry and Biden’s kids

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
BTW, Joe Biden also bragged about getting the Ukranian prosecutor investigating his son's company fired...

The son who got the $50,000 a MONTH job at the Ukrainian gas company even though he knew nothing about gas or Ukraine? 2 DAYS AFTER HIS POPS, SLEEPY JOE, MET WITH UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS?



nah, nothing to see there.


Lolz
🤪

BTW, the company in which Hunter Biden is involved in and which the Ukrainian prosecutor was investigating is "Burisma" and Robert Hunter Biden is a board member of that company.

You can hear all the details in that link to a video I gave.

Here it is again.



(Hunter Biden was not a owner, or co-owner of Burisma holdings, he was/is a board member)

There is more than one company in which Hunter Biden, among others, were/are involved in and which were mired in corruption scandals. In Burisma holdings Hunter Biden was a board member, and that seems to be the company the ukranian prosecutor was investigating and which Biden used bribery and withheld over a billion dollars unless Ukraine fired the prosecutor investigating that company. I got two of the companies Hunter Biden is involved in confused and erroneously stated Hunter Biden owned/co-owned. But Burisma holdings is not owned or co-owned by Hunter Biden but he is a board member of that company.

a reply to: Grambler

So trump can withhold funds from any country for investigating his son

You keep promoting this false narrative as fact.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

You keep promoting this false narrative as fact.

It isn't a false narrative, you are not honest enough to admit it... Even Biden himself admitted and bragged about it, it is recorded on video, yet left-wingers like yourself want to deny the TRUTH... Like you always do...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It isn't a false narrative

Yes it is.

Even Biden himself admitted and bragged about it

No he didn't. Biden has done nothing to confirm yours and Gamblers' false narrative.

Not everybody is hypnotized and dances to your wild and frenzied flute of confusion and distraction.