Whistle blower allegation proves dems, media corruption in Biden Ukraine story

a reply to: Gorgonite

You have spent this entire thread espousing your opinion that Trump did nothing wrong

no I didn't
I provided quotes from the Ukrainians that said he did not
not the same thing at all
nice try tho

even if he did it’s protected by executive privilege, or no one should listen to the president speak to foreign leaders.

that part is correct, and I think from a legal and constitutional basis, also for which I provided links.
the ic does not get to offer its opinion on diplomacy and is restricted from such by the statute I linked that you didnt read.
I dont think the ic that works for potus should be listening in to potus calls to begin with.
I think potus communications with foreign leaders are privileged and will not be revealed.

Yet, as soon as McConnell announces plans to look into the complaint, you’re all for it? Do you have any principles at all? Or do you just change your values depending on what the Republicans do?

nope
i am all for transparency in our government, no matter who calls for it
imo the only ones to be exposed with mcconnells complaint are not from the executive branch
scotus will smack mcconnell down the same as the dems

Anyone who can change their values as easily as you have is never worth debating against.

as you have been here in a debatable form since only yesterday, you have no idea what my values are
I have been here since 2006
posted against the patriot act, real id, fisa abuse prior to trump, ect
perhaps you should read a bit before tossing out blanket statements
also facts are not debatable, like the statutes I linked that outline the "whistleblower" process in this event, like the potus' privileged communications with other world leaders, like the floor vote that must be taken to start an impeachment in the house of representatives; basic facts that when ignored allow a tempest in a teapot that this garbage has become.

BTW, earlier you stated that the complaint was not deemed “urgent”. It was deemed “urgent” by the Trump appointed inspector general (the IG is the person called out in the law required to deem it urgent). It was later deemed “not urgent” by the AG Bill Barr, who is not required to deem it urgent or not. The AG just butted himself into the process. This is why I have labeled Barr Trumps fixer, because he has made several decisions and moves uncharacteristic of an AG that serve only to protect the interests of the president.

also a load of crap, barr hasn't deemed anything "not urgent"
nice try tho
www.cbsnews.com...

But Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire has refused to share the complaint with Congress. The general counsel for Maguire's office said it had consulted with the Justice Department and determined the complaint did not rise to the level of an "urgent concern" requiring congressional notification. The relevant federal statute defines "urgent concern" as "a serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency" related to an "intelligence activity." "The complaint forwarded to the [inspector general] does not meet the definition of 'urgent concern,'" general counsel Jason Klitenic wrote in a letter to Schiff on Tuesday. "This complaint ... concerned conduct by someone outside the Intelligence Community and did not relate to any 'intelligence activity' under the DNI's supervision."

it appears to me someone got second hand information and attempted to pass it off as something it and they are not
this is something for the dni to assess
sorry you dont like their assesment

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: underwerks
I truly, genuinely hope you're right and this leads to Joe Bidens downfall. I can't think of a bigger win for the left than a controversy that forces Biden to drop out.

He's the only Democrat candidate I don't want to vote for. And I feel confident in saying that goes for most other people on the left as well. I can't think of a more uninspiring, bland candidate.

So here's to hoping Joe gets ran out of town and we can pick between Bernie or Warren.

Might have missed the part where this impugnes Obama and the Dems and media as well

It will impugn the Dems as much as Trump's rampant pussy grabbing has impugned the Repub's.

Precisely none at all.

One is a vile comment. Was that comment illegal? Did republicans embrace it or refuse to denounce it?

The other is the media and dems actively burying a massive corruption scandal.

Um (re: the pussy grabbing), I'd say on the whole Republican's (especially Trump supporters) championed it and supported it as good clean fun. Hell I even saw a facebook photo of some grandma's for Trump sewing group and they all had on shirts (that they sewed/made I believe) that said something to the effect of "you can grab this pussy anytime Mr. President" with beaming smiles on their faces.

I don't see how you can think the Dems are burying a corruption scandal when Trump only has to release the transcripts to show just how silly they all are. The fact he hasn't speaks volumes.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see how you can think the Dems are burying a corruption scandal when Trump only has to release the transcripts to show just how silly they all are. The fact he hasn't speaks volumes.

more of that kavanaugh and muller guilty until proven innocent?
no thanks
also why would any potus give up privilege?

a reply to: shooterbrody


POTUS could releases the transcripts himself...but he is waiting for them to be 'leaked' to the PRESS.

Which they will be.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

also why would any potus give up privilege?

To exonerate himself (as he has been suggesting informally in his recollections of the call). Keeping everyone from seeing the transcripts reeks of suspicion and duplicity.

"I totally did nothing wrong and said only the right things with those folks"...."Whats that? No, no you can't see the transcripts, but they totally exonerate me, but no, you can't see them."

a reply to: Wayfarer

To exonerate himself

wow
when did we start doing that here?

no more innocent until proven guilty here?

pfft

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: shooterbrody


POTUS could releases the transcripts himself...but he is waiting for them to be 'leaked' to the PRESS.

Which they will be.

that would not be surprising
the same was done with calls to other world leaders

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

To exonerate himself

wow
when did we start doing that here?

no more innocent until proven guilty here?

pfft

You're treating him like he's innocent until forever because he's president and above the law so it doesn't matter if he did commit a crime because he's above all crimes. He's bigly and smart, and he's told us nothing untoward occurred on the phone call. He is being refuted by a whistleblower who's read the transcript and disagree's. Even if its too sensitive to let the public see, at the very least he could let other agency officials read the transcript to show them that in fact no malfeasance occurred. Its that easy, but he's refusing to let anyone see the transcripts, and trying to get the whistleblower effect shut down because its , "all fake, TRUST ME'.

If only 'Trust me' was admissible in any kind of legal or judicial sense.

If you need help rationalizing it from the opposite vantage, what would your take on Obama stiffing a whistleblower report for the same thing and refusing to let anyone see the transcript be?

a reply to: Wayfarer

You're treating him like he's innocent until forever because he's president

no
because it is how our county has operated for 200+ years

He is being refuted by a whistleblower who's read the transcript and disagree's.

really?
source that please?
also that would not make them a "whistleblower" by the statute; therefore the entire event would be moot?

Even if its too sensitive to let the public see, at the very least he could let other agency officials read the transcript to show them that in fact no malfeasance occurred.

more of that prove your innocence bs.....

If you need help rationalizing it from the opposite vantage, what would your take on Obama stiffing a whistleblower report for the same thing and refusing to let anyone see the transcript be?

see the fast and furious event....
or the irs scandal....

we do not do guilty until proven innocent

the most hilarious thing imo is the dems cant even get enough of their own votes to attempt to impeach the potus
if he is as bad as you say he is why wont the dems do their constitutional duty?

perhaps because it is all the easily identifiable bs the public at large sees it to be?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: underwerks
I truly, genuinely hope you're right and this leads to Joe Bidens downfall. I can't think of a bigger win for the left than a controversy that forces Biden to drop out.

He's the only Democrat candidate I don't want to vote for. And I feel confident in saying that goes for most other people on the left as well. I can't think of a more uninspiring, bland candidate.

So here's to hoping Joe gets ran out of town and we can pick between Bernie or Warren.

Might have missed the part where this impugnes Obama and the Dems and media as well

It will impugn the Dems as much as Trump's rampant pussy grabbing has impugned the Repub's.

Precisely none at all.

One is a vile comment. Was that comment illegal? Did republicans embrace it or refuse to denounce it?

The other is the media and dems actively burying a massive corruption scandal.

Um (re: the pussy grabbing), I'd say on the whole Republican's (especially Trump supporters) championed it and supported it as good clean fun. Hell I even saw a facebook photo of some grandma's for Trump sewing group and they all had on shirts (that they sewed/made I believe) that said something to the effect of "you can grab this pussy anytime Mr. President" with beaming smiles on their faces.

Do you remember when Corey Booker admitted to groping a woman against her will (back when he was still pretending to be straight)? None of the Democrats care. As far as I know, not a single one has even mentioned it.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
the dems cant even get enough of their own votes to attempt to impeach the potus
if he is as bad as you say he is why wont the dems do their constitutional duty?

perhaps because it is all the easily identifiable bs the public at large sees it to be?

Uh, I think you've misunderstood my whistleblower reference (though I now see I've worded it confusingly). The whistleblower is claiming the transcript says something other than what Trump has claimed. Its a disagreement only inasmuch as Trump says its wrong but (in entirely a non suspicious way) refuses to let anyone see the transcript. You see, we just have to trust him.

Re: Impeachment - A little birdy has been whispering in my ear that the Dems may just be about to get off their asses and start impeachment in the next day or two (so that hackneyed little quip may be about at the end of its useful life).

However, you and I both know of course Trump won't be impeached because the Republicans won't vote to impeach him regardless of any evidence of crimes whatsoever, so the aforementioned quip is disingenuous as a response because you didn't make it in good faith.

Furthermore, the only folks who view Trump's awfulness as 'BS' are Trump supporters, which doesn't really reinforce your position or change the paradigm of the discussion since his core supporters of course aren't going to have a 'come to Jesus moment - "you mean grabbing women's genitals against their wishes is actually bad - who would have thought!?!"

Again, I'll reference my best friend who is an ardent Trump supporter. He's a money account manager (he works with very high profile large sum accounts) for investment management, and his main reason for voting Trump was because he thought Trump would make his hyper-rich (think 9 figures for most of them) clients even richer, which in turn means more money for him to manage and a larger % cut of fee's. I love him for the fact that he's unabashed in his reasoning (though I entirely disagree with him). Even he has in the last few months expressed dismay and weariness over the never ending cavalcade of Trump absurdities that both make his job a nightmare (re: stock market fluctuations), Trump saying really stupid # and feeling embarrassed because of it, the ugliness of how Trump is championing child detentions, and a host of other slightly more minor issues (such as abortion access, wildlife/land management & protection, china trade war).

Its only an anecdotal reference (and just a single one to boot), but from someone who was riding high as a Trump supporter in 2016 to now a 'wait and see who the dems put up as their candidate' kind of shift based just on his disappointment over a gaggle of issues, its likely not unfair to assume there are others like him.

a reply to: Wayfarer

The whistleblower is claiming the transcript says something other than what Trump has claimed.

So then they are not really a "whistleblower" according to the statute.
As the acting dni will testify to on thursday before congress.
That fact is actually important in all this mess.

Re: Impeachment - A little birdy has been whispering in my ear that the Dems may just be about to get off their asses and start impeachment in the next day or two (so that hackneyed little quip may be about at the end of its useful life).

oh please be so
let them attempt impeachment over something that will turn out to be a separation of powers issue
who in our system of government has the power to make foreign policy and conduct diplomacy?
certainly not the intelligence community


as to your anecdotal reference
I am not a "trump supporter"
he was merely better than she was
he, at this point, still appears to be better than any of the dnc approved candidates

the crap he has had to deal with from the dems, never trumpers, ect is unprecedented
just because he is a jackass does not mean he should have the benefit of innocent until proven guilty
nor should he not wield executive power as he sees fit

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: underwerks
I truly, genuinely hope you're right and this leads to Joe Bidens downfall. I can't think of a bigger win for the left than a controversy that forces Biden to drop out.

He's the only Democrat candidate I don't want to vote for. And I feel confident in saying that goes for most other people on the left as well. I can't think of a more uninspiring, bland candidate.

So here's to hoping Joe gets ran out of town and we can pick between Bernie or Warren.

Might have missed the part where this impugnes Obama and the Dems and media as well

It will impugn the Dems as much as Trump's rampant pussy grabbing has impugned the Repub's.

Precisely none at all.

One is a vile comment. Was that comment illegal? Did republicans embrace it or refuse to denounce it?

The other is the media and dems actively burying a massive corruption scandal.

Um (re: the pussy grabbing), I'd say on the whole Republican's (especially Trump supporters) championed it and supported it as good clean fun. Hell I even saw a facebook photo of some grandma's for Trump sewing group and they all had on shirts (that they sewed/made I believe) that said something to the effect of "you can grab this pussy anytime Mr. President" with beaming smiles on their faces.

Do you remember when Corey Booker admitted to groping a woman against her will (back when he was still pretending to be straight)? None of the Democrats care. As far as I know, not a single one has even mentioned it.

Well I can't speak for all Democrats of course but in my own circles Booker is donzo and effectively ostracized for that very thing. Nobody I hang out with that shares my political views thinks Booker has any future (or wants him to for that matter, myself included).

originally posted by: shooterbrody
the crap he has had to deal with from the dems, never trumpers, ect is unprecedented
just because he is a jackass does not mean he should have the benefit of innocent until proven guilty
nor should he not wield executive power as he sees fit

I don't get it. Are you for real upset at how much 'crap' Trump has had to deal with? This seems both petty and likely hypocritical....

Were you this upset over the same amount of crap Obama had to deal with? I mean, for god's sake, there were people who were championing the theory that Obama wasn't even an American and that he was a Muslim. McConnell literally slow walked a SC nomination out from under his feet. I can totally understand that from your likely vantage its a case of "its ok when they did it to Obama because he's the bad guy, and they were/are the good guys', but surely you can conceptualize that everyone raging against Trump is thinking the same thing in reverse.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Were you this upset over the same amount of crap Obama had to deal with?

quite frankly yes
the birther stuff was and is intolerable
congress not working for the people to find compromise is to this day inexcusable
none of the bs washington "business as usual" is ok no matter who is in the white house

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

Were you this upset over the same amount of crap Obama had to deal with?

quite frankly yes
the birther stuff was and is intolerable
congress not working for the people to find compromise is to this day inexcusable
none of the bs washington "business as usual" is ok no matter who is in the white house

Awesome. I'm genuinely happy to hear you say that. I agree with everything you said above.

Much Respect.

a reply to: Wayfarer
potus has tweeted he will release the transcript of the call with the Ukrainian president tomorrow

if there is nothing on that call damning the potus who has really won?

not one thing has passed the house.


why are they getting paid?


if I didn't work for 18 months I would not be paid, would YOU.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer
potus has tweeted he will release the transcript of the call with the Ukrainian president tomorrow

if there is nothing on that call damning the potus who has really won?

Well, if its a transcript of the call (or one of the calls) in question having been referenced by the whistleblower (and not another similar but unrelated call) and its truly un-redacted/unedited and contains no malfeasance then I would say Trump wins soundly.

a reply to: Wayfarer
It appears the dems are bringing impeachment.
Imo this woll break them.
Mueller didnt tecommend charges with an actual investigation.
There is none here.
They are nuts.