What would getting rid of individually-owned cars do?

a reply to: Oleandra88

Yes I see what you mean but please do not act like we are all brain-dead devout bucklings.

(If I may interject) ... hear you on that sentiment. However, the problem is two-fold (and it affects more than just your country):

1 - Group mentality differs from individual outlooks and is often coarser and more simple-minded. Unfortunately, group mentality tends to have more influence in politics than principled individuals.

2 - The principled individuals are locked out of influential positions by the collusive networks of the elites.

My impression was that in terms of corruption, Germany was a study in contrasts. Individual Germans I knew were honest, and God save any idiot who tries to bribe the Polizei ... yet, the networks of the powerful in the country do a great job of keeping various agendas moving forward regardless of what the "little people" think. Collusive, mutual back-scratching at its finest.

I think these conditions exist in many countries, but somehow the contrast between individual behavior and group think seemed more glaring. At least to me.

Cheers--

a reply to: Oleandra88

Be careful, you observations might be a bit off. Remember, often it is a small group of people who make a fuss and noise.

Also "they". Please differ between the government and the people. Yes there are those people who want to be "followers". But then, we would not be such a strong nation with so many self made companies, if we were all like you described.

You’re not wrong. Hence I wrote ‘parts pf the populace’
The problem however is, a small group of people who make fuss and noise is all you need.
The opinion of the prevailing majority actually doesn’t matter, a committed minority will conform the rest of the society in the long run.
The latest research on the subject that I’m aware off puts the tipping point at 25 percent:
www.theatlantic.com...
They’re already nearly there: www.wahlrecht.de...
And you know what’s coming next election with Merkel gone and AKK (or Merz lol) vs Habeck on the ballot.

It very depends on where you live, though. South, North, East, West.

The south for example is very traditional and has innovative industry. We were (ancestors in this region) all very poor here for a long time, this is when people started to be smart and inventive. The "we make that even better, because we can -thought" is very dominant here in the south.

Yes, Germany is a very diverse country. Even without migrants.
But as for the south (southwest really based on your description, Bavaria is a slightly different case). I dare say you (as in the Southwest) were innovative, diligent and capable. It made you rich. And thus happened what always happens. Your rulers got arrogant and you grew complacent.
Too many of you have already forgotten how past generations acquired the wealth you now enjoy. You think you still have your can-do attitude, but I think you’ve lost it long ago and are hard at work tearing down the fabric of what prior, less spoiled generations have built up. Not just you, the entirety of Germany really. It’ll last another decade or so, but the day will come and everyone will see the hollow corpse as what it is.

Yes I see what you mean but please do not act like we are all brain-dead devout bucklings.

Sure sure. That would be about 30 percent of voting Germans I’d say? FDP looks pretty decent, at least on economic freedoms, they consistently forget about any other… half to a third of the AfD who actually don’t want to have a do over on that national thingy and maybe about half of the CDU/CSU who still hasn’t figured out why they still voting for them… how else would you describe the rest?

Can you name any govermental or party initative during Merkels rule that actually would have increased personal freedoms in any meaningfull way? We can play the 'but not everyone' tune all day but we all know the direction the wind is blowing. And it'll only get worse.

a reply to: mightmight
Oh I must have overseen the "parts of populace", not my intent in anyway.

I can not disagree with you here, and yes, technically it would be south west. Good observation

What you write about with us sort of "resting on our achievements", I see it that way. Look at the automobile industry, topic, electric cars.

The Japanese sell fully electric cars for a while now... But now WE come, look at US, WE Germans now take a look at the problem and solve it. This mentality will ruin us, is already ruining us. Connected with the newer Generations, where I count myself into, it will not get better. Globalisation adds more to this.

I can not speak for the people or any industry or if the "can-do-it" attitude is still big or not. I can not judge and you may be right, this might be a invalid statement now.

Can you name any govermental or party initative during Merkels rule that actually would have increased personal freedoms in any meaningfull way? We can play the 'but not everyone' tune all day but we all know the direction the wind is blowing. And it'll only get worse.

Not one. I am aware of it. There is no opposition really when it comes to that. Not even the Linke, once the anti establishment... now they are the most dictator-ish of them all, when I look at what they want.

You know your stuff about our political system but say "your country", are you from Europe or did you live here for a while?

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2
Yes at least the Polizei I can confidently say I trust them. Never had any uncalled rudeness from them to endure or similar. I do not fear them if I see them in the mirror and I will also greet them on the street. Actually I got away pretty mild most of the time.

But yes, corruption is there (there has to be) but hidden and not so obvious.

Since I live here and am immersed in it, I value inputs like yours and mightmight very much. Yeah the lobby is strong in many fields, no doubt.

You know, I was raised to say things like I think them. Bluntly and direct. Many times it works wonderful, especially in a eye-to-eye talk but over the internet or via SMS it is always difficult. My sarcasm is extra dry, too.

So if you or anyone read my messages in the future, they are not attacks and I am always open for discussion and changing my mind/opinion.

"I do not know, what I do not know and life is a constant learning process."

You all can stay the hell away from my gas guzzling classic.

a reply to: CryHavoc

Not only buses, but trains and other systems (hyperloop anyone). Most of the world manages fine without individual cars.

There would still need trucks for craftspeople and deliveries.

Personally (and I spent a large part of my twenties on buses to and from work), I find mass transit systems much less stressful to use. A bit more time consuming but I can read or work while commuting.

Remember the internet and working from home were going to fix help with 'traffic' as well. It hasn't because we see the real human need for face to face interaction.

See Asimov's "The Naked Sun" for a take on the possibilities of 'remote' society.

Although it is true that this would help emissions, I don’t think anyone is considering something as radical as this. It might evolve naturally in society if technology progresses, who knows. And electric car technology is getting better.

16 superfreighter ships produce more CO2 emmisions vs all the automobiles in the world combined. There are over 50,000 freighter ships. Unlike personal vehicles, freighter ships run on dirty bunker oil with no emmisions stadards. These ships transport consumer goods, including green energy goods like solar panels, batteries, electric vehicles, etc. from halfway around the world. In China, where the solar panels & batteries are manufactured, the land is so polluted plants can't even grow there, making the planet less green. Plants thrive on CO2, making the planet greener. Plants use CO2 along with sunlight & water to survive, in a process known as photosynthesis. Plants also create the oxygen we breathe. Most people should've learned this in elementary school. Jet airplanes also produce lots of CO2 emmisons.

originally posted by: Deplorable
a reply to: Oleandra88

Sounds like everything your government wants for you and your kids.

As a bonus, you can get a male robot for your home, so you won't exactly have to be 'single' anymore.

Orwell didn't think everything all the way through, did he?

Anatomically correct?? Hmm Ok, Ill give it a whirl.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Have you ever been on a bus?

This ends the argument. The microphone can be dropped. Nothing more needs to be said.

What would getting rid of individually-owned cars do?

You will lose freedom.

If you wake up and decide you would like to travel from Orlando to Memphis it's going to suck.

And if you say "How often do you live that spontaneously?" I would reply:

That's none of your business.

Which is another freedom you will lose, privacy.

If it's your car, your comings and goings are far more private than if you must rely on public busing or giant corporation ride share.

Also, in the case of buses and car shares...

Cleanliness. I like to keep my vehicle spotless. The car club business model kinda sickens me. I don't want to ride in a car that the last occupant used for a bachelor party with people puking and having sex in... Regardless of how well it was "cleaned".

Public buses are never clean, and I have no faith that will change.

But all this is just a thought process. It'll never happen.

A group of politicians has a better chance at removing private gun ownership than private vehicle ownership in America.

I live 150 miles from my VA doctors and there is NO busess that run between where i live and LA calif where my doctors are.

There was once a grayhound bus route that had a stop where i live but they shut it down 20 years ago.

I'm go to go ahead and bet the OP lives in New York City, or some other dense urban core with good public transportation.

To those of us who live anywhere else, owning a car is really not optional. Busses are infrequent, and the bus stop may be far from where you actually want to go. And if you want to go out of town? Forget it.

It would be nice if reality worked like that. So a bus fits 20 people so logically a bus offsets the carbon footprint of 20 cars? A bus uses more gas, and will only travel to specific routes. Say you don't live in an urban environment, how efficient or practical is it where there are only 50people/sq mile?

Let me guess, you're in LA or NYC. And everyone who uses the MTA hates it's terrible service.

It's not even a talking point because people who have thought deeper about the subject understand it's not a good option. But yes, restrict our rights for your thought experiment...

a reply to: CryHavoc

!!!! I was not aware that a mere 16 ships produce the same carbon emission as ALL consumer cars.
So you're saying cheap foreign goods are actually the cause of climate change?!?! And ... trump slowing the trade with China is actually saving the world from the dreaded CO2?!!! Amazing.


a reply to: JBIZZ

First, about bus cleanliness. Here(Las Vegas) they are really clean. I haven't ridden a bus in another city in 30-plus years and cannot comment on other cities but here they are nice and clean, albeit many times packed and all sorts of crazies can be riding along.

Anyway......

So were talking about getting rid of cars. It's interesting to note that the corporations forced us into a car lifestyle in the early 20th century by, well, just read the thread it explains it better than I could. Now the politicians want to take the car away from us, it really is priceless.

The Great American Streetcar Scandal

small businesses would be impossible without "personal" vehicles.

Does your plumber get a truck for his one man business? Or does he have to haul a bunch of tool boxes on the A-line, switching trains uptown?

What about your grammy's home health nurse? Is she waiting on a bus with a bag of meds and some depends for gram?

Or the lawn guys, in their truck pulling a low-boy trailer. Or can they get a pass since they're undocumented?


To make a short story long, are you going to stifle all small-business, and thus cement the power of your corporate overlords? Or do I get a pass, and freedom, if I trade-mark my 9-to-5?

a reply to: CryHavoc

It's like saying get rid of dating and just assign people spouses to marry. Individual Car ownership are just not only wanted universally but also integral to a functioning economy. This will be a short lived thread.

Where do you live? Someplace metro and with decent public transit. Most of America does not have this. And what say you about the authoritarian aspect of the OP, not allowing folks the option of individual cars and forcing them to rely on public transit?

(Talk about an urban vs rural issue)

a reply to: FyreByrd

I guess DNC Nominee DJ Yang has said we need to get rid of Individual cars by 2050.

See, here's the problem with politicians in general and democrats in particular.

They have a precise prescription for your life. They know what you should eat and drink, how you should get to work, and where you should live.

I want the party that says "do your own thing, baby!"

but it won't happen anytime soon.