An interesting perspective from Judaism - a clue to the meaning & purpose of life itself.

Hi folks,

If you're like me, you spend a lot of time ruminating on the big questions. And if you're not that sort of person, then perhaps you could lean towards the contemplation of such matters as life, death, the soul, eternity, the meaning of life & the origins of life on Earth - even if it's just for the time it takes to read & reflect on this thread.

In Christianity - the religion I practice, as a mainstream charismatic evangelical (though in some regards, compared to many, I see my spiritual journey in a more contemplative & expansive sense than standard churchy doctrine - I question everything & colour outside the lines to discover more about the mystic wonders I have known through the practice of my faith..) I've come to learn about forces which control things in this world, and something of the nature of those beings that keep everything on track, as near as possible. Free will leads to some interesting, heartbreaking, sometimes bizarre & complex scenarios, afflicting or blessing the lives of men & women all over the world in ways which can be either wonderfully inspirational, or devastatingly chaotic. There are forces which try to trap, mislead, kill, steal & destroy you, and there are forces - messengers - who keep things more or less civilised & prevent the End of Days (halting nuclear tensions & preventing MAD scenarios during the Cold War, I'm pretty sure they had something to do with our survival of that period in history). Everything is more or less on track in terms of the infrastructure of the civilised world, and that is strictly the result of the progress of Christianity, followed by the Enlightenment. Big Ideas emanating from the study & practice of Christian theology at every level of society, finessed by the Enlightenment, causing important principles to be endowed in the way we order & manage our lives, and our legacy on this Earth. Everything is more or less the result of the civilising power of the Judeo-Christian worldview, and its development & progress down the centuries, until these modern times. But soon, I think, we'll be moving on to the next level, during the period which will come to be known as the End fo Days. At which point there's bound to be a lot of surprises in store for us, and many tests of our character & vision for life itself. Those days may not be far away, and I base that assumption on some personal insights which I won't derail the thread with at this point. I also base it on the observation of the modern world & its evolution over the past thirty years or so, not only the mundane, but also the woo. And the woo is the edge upon which all is cut & refined, in the space between dreaming & waking, when the weird happenings of our dream lives, and our out of body experiences, and our near-death experiences, all play into the fabric of our morals, our character, our thoughts & inspirations, our vision for what life should be, and how it should be lived.

I think we're approaching a singularity event, if we haven't already reached that point. A greater part of me thinks that maybe we already have - the Mandela Effect is to my mind the proof that our weirdest experimentation has worked, and that somewhere on Earth, some sort of Event took place, which slipped the boundaries of the Multiverse, causing us to either go into, or skirt around, a black hole sort of artefact, which has screwed with the universe & caused us to falter around the edges of a Brave New World. Possibly, someone has accidentally opened up the Bottomless Pit, or the void, the hellish realm of banished demonic forces & other unfortunates, with a fate perhaps worse than death. This was prophesied by St John in the Book of Revelations, or rather, apparently, the 'Revelation of St John the Divine' (Mandela Effect imho).

What I wanted to share with you all is a quirk of Judaic thought, which may have in some sense a real power to lift us up, out of the dross & chaos which may be affecting us, by giving us a new insight into our collective 'origin story'. You all know that at the beginning, there was a Fall which effectively cursed Mankind to a life of toil & pain, which seems to have been, in my mind, an event deeply steeped in metaphor but also in real magical power. The Jewish thinkers have said (I think it is in the Talmud, but I may be wrong - there are a number of Judaic wisdom teachings, and I can't quite remember from which on it came..) - (PARAPHRASED BROADLY)

"When Adam, the first man, was cast out of Paradise, his soul shattered into billions of pieces, with the shards & sparks falling down into the deepest darkness, a place referred to as Qlippoth [ed - perhaps we could call it the void]. Those shards of his soul were then left with the need to ascend back again, a hard road up away from the torment of being in such an abysmal place. So when a soul reaches up, or rather is called up into our realm, it is lifted & placed into the womb of a human mother, into an embryo which then gestates & ultimately is born. So when we look at the world & see all the troubles thereupon as the result of the sins of Man - do not wonder why a pure & noble soul is causing chaos in this world - rather consider that human souls are by their nature darkened & twisted in some inward part, due to the connection to that dark void. Life is about ascending from that darkness, towards the light of God. Mankind is Fallen. From Below, not from Above. This puts it all into perspective."

And so when we look at our lives - whether we are wealthy or poor, surrounded by friends & family, or alone with our thoughts - bear in mind that as we are thus fallen, and as we are therefore reaching for the light, what can life be, other than a quest, to learn how to love, and to fully abandon any sinful ways which keep our souls tied firmly to the Qlippoth. In the Qabalah there are realms which we reach for - the Sefirot - interlinked domains of principle, morals & power. Grace, mercy, justice, power, and more. We are to forge connections to these realms, and to sever our connections to the darkness of Qlippoth, which is basically an evil reflection of the goodness of the spiritual path which is referenced in Qabalah. Although I am Christian, I take courage from this teaching, knowing where I am from, knowing whom I am called upon to follow, and causing me to revere the mystic & grand design of the Cosmos, the way that everything is a race, a causeway which leads us upwards, into ascension, away from the Hells of Qlippoth & into the Heavens which Qabalah speaks of. The questions of why it has to be like this have some grounding in the nature of free will, and the need for a framework which permits for both justice & mercy - we are called to humbly follow the path which is laid before us, trusting that we will be guided so long as our hearts are sincere, in that we desire to be good, and to love those around us.

Learning to love is the purest & most noble thing we can base our lives upon. Whether we have wealth or not, life is nothing without love, and without love we're walking backwards, repeating our fall, landing further back than we began. We climb, we ascend, we love those around us & support them in every little way that we ever can - every choice matters, every choice takes us further.

Thanks, FITO.

Genesis 3:6 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 3:7 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Adam deliberately ate the fruit (believed to be a fig in the Talmud) after seeing Eve did not die after eating it.

This quote from the Talmud may apply to Adam deciding to eat the fruit.

The world is a dark place for one who looks to the table of others [for his sustenance] (Rav, Beitza 32b).

It's your road and your road alone.

a reply to: InTheLight

Interesting quotes, but I'm failing to see the actual point you're trying to make? Are you suggesting that I'm a leech? If so I'm not sure where you get your information from. And with regards to the "your road alone" part - seriously? It's a shared road dear, and that's kind of the whole point. We are a fallen race, and we're seeking ascension. It's the oldest story ever told, and we're all a part of it, so perhaps add some further thoughts to clarify your rather cryptic somments?

I've always had this feeling. Human kind is too twisted to be still graced by God - I always figured this world was about coming out of the darkness, regardless of peer pressure, ego, status and above all - Your own beliefs.

Everything on this earth is mis-information and focused on keeping you in the "system". Keeping you distracted with what may feel right, instead of what is actually right.

I was always told by a very enlightened friend to always stray from being "too human" - It helps to keep you away from desires, lust, addictions, hatred, jealously, etc.

Thanks for sharing! Loved it.

I for one, follow what you are saying. I am a Christian, outside the box....I am at work right now and cant give a reference, but Paul said "milk is for babies, meet is for man". I have always interpreted that to mean 2 layers of teachings in the bible.

I cant explain what I mean, but I think you get it.

As an aside, I have always loved the old Jewish wifestale about babies who are about to be born. The babies know their whole life, but just as they are about to be born, an angel puts their fingers to its kips... hence that little divot on your upper lip....and says shhhhh. And we forget our whole life until we live it.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Let me guess, the purpose of life is for everyone to serve Israel.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
I've come to learn about forces which control things in this world, and something of the nature of those beings that keep everything on track, as near as possible.

People only take away from you what you let them take. Don't let them. Nobody controls anyone else without first having permission.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Free will leads to some interesting, heartbreaking, sometimes bizarre & complex scenarios, afflicting or blessing the lives of men & women all over the world in ways which can be either wonderfully inspirational, or devastatingly chaotic.

We are free to choose from a list of choices we have no control over. Unless we have control over our choices nobody has free-will.

My problem with Christianity and Christians is they have no love for non-believers. They are intolerant to other religions like Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism. The majority of the World is non-Christian for a reason. Christianity is born out of slavery.

Friedrich Nietzsche had some interesting criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted, too weak to fight for, while praising what they did not want, but did have in abundance, as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness."

My problem with Christians and Christianity is that it is not a religion at all. It's more like fandom or rooting for your favorite NFL football team. People idolize the words in the Bible. These idols have no meaning. It's all about rooting.

And on top of that Jesus never came back to restore Eden. And the promise land already had many people living in it and there has been nothing but conflict there ever since.

I'm pretty confident our omnipotent God knew exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. If God really cared about sin he would not have created man with so many imperfections the first place. As far as I can tell, there is no amount of unnecessary evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our illusion of having free-will. I think our imperfections are a never ending source of amusement for God.

I agree our goal is to to return back to the perfection that is God. It's just everything else you said presumes God is a willing participate in your megalomania. There is no evil. There are no "forces" out there trying to take over our will. If we crap in our own bed we just wallow in it until we do something about it. Sorry, if you are looking for Heavenly Jerusalem on Earth it's NOT going to come from God or the Bible. It's going to come from good old socialism and building a commonwealth for everyone to share. And not just the Dominionist billionaires and well-off who think they are chosen by God to rule over others because they pay no taxes or they are born into obscene levels of wealth.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It sounds like Friedrich Nietzsche was just a bitter man who had nothing more than his own philosophies to comfort him, which obviously didn't do any good...

Nietzsche resigned in 1879 due to health problems that plagued him most of his life; he completed much of his core writing in the following decade. In 1889 at age 44, he suffered a collapse and afterward, a complete loss of his mental faculties. He lived his remaining years in the care of his mother until her death in 1897 and then with his sister Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche. Nietzsche died in 1900.

The fact that you think "good old socialism" is the answer to society's problems over God is laughable. The people who you would need to tax to death to pay for it would just leave or commit corruption to hide their wealth. The more you see government take from the people, the more corruption you're going to witness from the citizens. You're hilarious.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: InTheLight

Interesting quotes, but I'm failing to see the actual point you're trying to make? Are you suggesting that I'm a leech? If so I'm not sure where you get your information from. And with regards to the "your road alone" part - seriously? It's a shared road dear, and that's kind of the whole point. We are a fallen race, and we're seeking ascension. It's the oldest story ever told, and we're all a part of it, so perhaps add some further thoughts to clarify your rather cryptic somments?

We are only a fallen race if you believe we are a fallen race, I don't believe that. I believe each person is responsible for their own path (road) in life and not everyone seeks ascension, some are very happy to remain earthy. Remaining earthy may be some people's road in life, so why define other people's needs or what other's are seeking, or should seek? To match yours perhaps?

My comments and quotes are very clear. I was commenting on the passages you posted not about you. I am not sure why you are so mistrusting of others - perhaps you should travel the road alone for a while and try to figure that one out.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Interestingly, the story of creation from the different religions do not put us as 'fallen'. So, perhaps your take on the roots of early Christianity may have some basis in fact.

Islam -

Adam is according to Islam, both the first human and the first prophet.[citation needed] The Quran says that he and his wife dwelled in Garden of Eden. The Quranic counterpart of the fall of man differs in some regards from the Book of Genesis. The Quran does not blame women for seducing men, since both Adam and his wife, whose name is not mentioned in the Quran at all, eat from the forbidden tree. Further, the forbidden tree is not identified as Tree of the knowledge of good and evil but as Tree of Eternity. The Quran does not mention the serpent as a symbol for the devil, but only Satan himself. While the Old Testament curses the earth for Adams transgression, according to the Quran, God declares the earth as a dwelling place for humans, but not curses it nor is Adam destined to die for his sin,[24] thus lacking the doctrine of original sin, prevailing in Christian theology. Islamic theology gives a more optimistic attitude towards humanity's fall. Only due to free will, humans are able to produce good. Thus, although Adam's disobedience created evil, only this made it possible to create good.[according to whom?][25] The disobediences of Adam and his wife were already forgiven by God during their life.[26][27] Islamic traditions are more extensive, adding further details into the Quranic creation narrative. A

Buddhism - The Three Universal Truths

1. Nothing is lost in the universe
2. Everything Changes
3. The Law of Cause and Effect

Also, there is no creator.

Hinduism has varied creation stories, but I found this one quite interesting.

Hindus find support for, or foreshadowing of evolutionary ideas in scriptures.[5] For example, the concept of Dashavatara can be seen as having some similarities to Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.The first incarnation of Vishnu in the form of a fish resembles the evolutionary origin of fish in the Silurian Period.

a reply to: dfnj2015

My problem with Christianity and Christians is they have no love for non-believers. They are intolerant to other religions like Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism. The majority of the World is non-Christian for a reason. Christianity is born out of slavery.

I think it's hard to see other people's perspectives if we allow ourselves to have 'beef' with a whole demographic - religion, class, colour - you begin by saying 'my problem with Christianity', which is a really negative starting point. You can't know the complex web of connections, choices, actions, interactions, and esoteric forces which have shaped the entire body of people who cling to some belief in Christ.

The beginnings of Christianity was among slaves to be sure - because it's about the attainment of spiritual liberty, from anger and unforgiveness, in the main. But don't be fooled into thinking it's a poor, ignorant man's religion - people of every class & station in life have lived devoted to Christ, and some amazing works of theological discourse & dispensation have had a tremendously positive impact on the world.

You're starting from a post-popst-modernist millennial perspective, which brackets the whole tradition based on the bull# of a few charlatans & empty headed buffoons who happen to be very prominent. And why do you suppose that is? Because there are esoteric forces seeking its destruction, sowing division & strife, false teaching & deliberate misrepresentation, with the deliberate aim of bringing down the faith.

Where I was brought into the faith, we had a witch come to us, from a coven which was actively seeking to corrupt the young leaders - she was very attractive, and had misrepresented her intentions to a young leader, she came into one of our meetings, and when the congregation was in worship, she suddenly manifested with a host of demonic forces which couldn't bear to be around the atmosphere which was soaked in the presence of God. The girl agreed to receive prayer for deliverance & again, these spirits shook her, contorted her features into beast-like horrors, but the power of God won out & she was set free.

She renounced the coven, the practice of witchcraft, and apologised for her intentions before the church. She immediately moved away from the coven & began a new life with a liberated, happy, fresh spirit, totally set free from the darkness which had poisoned her mind & spirit. In the faith - the true faith - we know each other by our works, and we understand that rebels & usurpers are always trying to tear down what God has built.

Jesus said "I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it". We aren't negative about other faiths, or other types of people - we're from all walks of life, and we recognise each other also by the presence of the Spirit of God upon us, which people often comment upon as being a certain kind of freshness & light.

Jesus said "You are salt & light of the Earth". That doesn't mean we're special in ourselves, but when God moves in a person's heart, we can be there to help heal old wounds, and to help restore them back to brightness of spirit, where once there was perhaps conflict & confusion.

Let others come & meet us, let them know what we're about - don't be fooled by the ones who seem to go out of their way to be obnoxious & judgemental - often they're under the influence of some person or some spirit that is not of the Lord, and you have to be "wise as serpents, innocent as doves" in order to get through the obstacles these deceivers put in our path.

The purpose of life is to keep the DNA train rolling. That's about it. The things most people talk about that supposedly give life purpose like love and service and remembrance are just there to motivate you to breed. The reproduction is the ultimate goal, not the stuff you do or think or feel to accomplish it.

In bowling, your immediate goal is to knock down the pins. The ultimate goal is to win the game.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
The purpose of life is to keep the DNA train rolling. That's about it. The things most people talk about that supposedly give life purpose like love and service and remembrance are just there to motivate you to breed. The reproduction is the ultimate goal, not the stuff you do or think or feel to accomplish it.

In bowling, your immediate goal is to knock down the pins. The ultimate goal is to win the game.

*Insert extreme sarcasm*
But what if the game is just a distraction and you were actually supposed to hit on the cute bar tender because you no longer have any self control from drinking too much at the bowling alley?

Now you can ultimately fulfill your destiny; Breed.

a reply to: Blue Shift

What a depressing & feeble attitude. That's about the laziest outlook I've come across. If youu can't see the magic, then you're just waiting for the coffin. Sad way to live, never seeing beyond the end of your own nose.

a reply to: Blue Shift

yes, the purpose of us can be that pragmatic...

but on a higher level.... the Angels fell & humans fell from grace (immortality)...these problems/outcomes were known to the creator God before they ever happened in linear time


the 'love' answer is bogus, 'love' can be corrupted and actually be viewed as a bias...
but Altruism in any measure of practicing it is way more better than 'love' that can be twisted into horrible natures


Gods experiment is for humans to transform a sterile universe of matter into a organic entity with a morality & intelligence & a sustainability...perhaps even a reproduction capability to boot

originally posted by: IrateCanadian
*Insert extreme sarcasm*
But what if the game is just a distraction and you were actually supposed to hit on the cute bar tender because you no longer have any self control from drinking too much at the bowling alley?
Now you can ultimately fulfill your destiny; Breed.

It's not wrong.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: Blue Shift

What a depressing & feeble attitude. That's about the laziest outlook I've come across. If youu can't see the magic, then you're just waiting for the coffin. Sad way to live, never seeing beyond the end of your own nose.

I definitely agree that very often a "functional delusion" and entertaining distractions are all that get people through life without ending it all. But if you can't see that we're all driven by pain and (minimal) pleasure to reproduce and are forgotten dust not long after we're dead and the next generations take over, then you're really not paying attention.

It's not lazy. It's hard and harsh.

originally posted by: St Udio
Gods experiment is for humans to transform a sterile universe of matter into a organic entity with a morality & intelligence & a sustainability...perhaps even a reproduction capability to boot.

Why do people always want to put limits on the God that they imagine? The fundamental paradox of a transtemporal, omniscient and all-powerful creator is that it has no motivation to do anything. It simply IS. And now you have turned it into some kind of weak scientist who tinkers and waits for outcomes. For no reason.

a reply to: Blue Shift

the idea for this thread, is itself compartmentalizing a God or Creator ...to wit:

… a clue to the meaning & purpose of life itself.

the thread is about viewpoints, not about contemplating Ones navel…

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: Blue Shift

the idea for this thread, is itself compartmentalizing a God or Creator ...to wit:

… a clue to the meaning & purpose of life itself.

the thread is about viewpoints, not about contemplating Ones navel…

And I have both.