NEWS: China warns US-Japan military cooperation should not include Taiwan

China has issued a warning to the United States and Japan to not include Taiwan in its military alliance. Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing insisted that any alliance with the island nation would encroach on its sovereignty stating "The Chinese government and people are firmly against such activities". He further stated that Tokyo must act properly in regards to Taiwan and back down to its claims on the disputed Senkaku, or Diaoyu Islands.



Watching the Chinese saber rattle kind of reminds me alot of Kim only less comic book like and the threats are a bit more subtle. So what exactly are they going to do if the U.S. and Japan more saber rattling? China's hot button is clearly Taiwan and its the hole in thier amour. The question is how far would they be willing to go with Taiwan?

Edit: Changed Phrase

[edit on 3/6/05 by FredT]

I have absolutely no proof in what I'm going to say but it's more of a hunch then anything else so here goes, I believe this whole row over Taiwan is a classic Bait and Switch tactic. Why are they so twisted up about Taiwanees independance? If they take it over by military force they would effictevly destroy the entire island infrastructure as I do not see the USA, Japan and South Korea sitting out of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. It's a negative sum scenario, everyone looses UNLESS there is something deeper going on behind the doors of the Commies.

Who gains?

Who looses?

Is there any other less prominent but more strategic POI's in the region? Like for instance a known Oil reserve?

[edit on 6-3-2005 by sardion2000]

The thing about sabre rattling is that it is never one way, nonetheless the brinkmanship will continue on both sides.

I see Japan's entrance into the Taiwan problem as a deliberately calculated provocation to China, China would be wise not to take the bait.

-----

No, the question of Taiwan is more then geopolitical, it is a question of national pride "face". People can behave irrationally when pride is involved.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Is there any other less prominent but more strategic POI's in the region? Like for instance a known Oil reserve?

The Spratly Island are claimed by Phillipines, China, and Taiwan. There is oil there I think. Given Taiwans geology, I doubt they are sitting on a huge bubble of oil.

China wants access to Taiwans technology and modern infrastructure and highly trained workforce. Intergrating the Taiwanese economy would be a boom for them.

However, given how bad they have handled Hong Kong I doubt this is any comfort to the Taiwanese.

But thats the thing. An invasion of Taiwan will destroy alot of the infrastructure in the battle of the city(and would kill alot of people from both Chinese munitions and America "Smart" munitions I do not think that USA and Japan and some others will sit it out), heck it could even escalate into WW3 and I don't think China is that stupid. Spratley Island seems like it could be a target, but the info on the amount of Gas and Oil is nonexistant.

I still cannot shake this hunch though, when Geopolitics are involved the situation is rarely what it seems.

Originally posted by FredT
However, given how bad they have handled Hong Kong I doubt this is any comfort to the Taiwanese.

The only thing China interferes in Hong Kong is the appointment of Tung-Chee Hua and half the parliament. Basically, the politics that have nothing to do with the economy.

The Hong-Kong economy was over-inflated, unit-prices were too high, Hong Kong was helped by the mainland economy which is why the HK economy is improving right now.

Are you actually suggesting that that is the only thing????

Explain to me why last year 100,000+ hit the streets to portest Chinese policies in Hong Kong??????

Originally posted by FredT
Are you actually suggesting that that is the only thing????

Explain to me why last year 100,000+ hit the streets to portest Chinese policies in Hong Kong??????

It's THAT thing.

They were protesting against the pseudo-democratic parliament that China has implemented which doesn't allow universal sufferage.

Only half the parliament is up for elections, and the chief executive is appointed.

Oh yeah, sorry FredT, i forgot, They were also protesting against a bill that would curb freedom of speech in HK (was later dropped due to protests).
The bill was like the Patriot Act, IRONY

[edit on 6-3-2005 by rapier28]

Sabre rattling is two sided. The Bush Administration warhawks pro-active stance on the Taiwan issue and the interference of the US and Japan in an internal issue only makes China feel that they have to respond to this.

And so the circle continues.

The Americans and the Taiwanese are fools if they think they can hold Taiwan forever...

thanks,
drfunk

I think its a Chinese hot-button (love that phrase) because it threatens China's national border integrity. There are over 40 ethnicities within China and also the annexation of Tibet.

If Taiwan is allowed to seceed from their nation then it will open the door to the idea that others can do it as well. They saw what happend in the domino effect of the crumbling of the USSR and they know all too well that it can happen to them.

They rightly see it as a direct threat to the further existance of the Peoples Republic of China.

Originally posted by FredT
China's hot button is clearly Taiwan and its the chink in thier amour.

"chink"? I find that offensive and so would any other chinese person. Nice to know what you regard us as.

Originally posted by Channy

Originally posted by FredT
China's hot button is clearly Taiwan and its the chink in thier amour.

"chink"? I find that offensive and so would any other chinese person. Nice to know what you regard us as.

I think I'll forward the collective "huh?" are you being facetious or serious?

Chink: A narrow opening, such as a crack or fissure
Probably alteration of obsolete chine, from Middle English, crack, from Old English cine.

[edit on 6/3/05 by subz]

Originally posted by Channy

Originally posted by FredT
China's hot button is clearly Taiwan and its the chink in thier amour.

"chink"? I find that offensive and so would any other chinese person. Nice to know what you regard us as.

Perhaps a "no pun intented" would have made the statement clearer. My father, who is not know as the most "sensitive" person would never say "chink" it would come across more as CHINK

But then again a person of Ashian persuasion could always get the upper hand by repling "WHOP or GINNIE.

I believe people in glass houses should not cast stones, but then again I'm just a DUMMY

I have a question:

Several years ago when the Taiwan issue first emerged, I recalled that a treaty had established a date for returning Taiwan to China from the British Empire. ...I found the treaty and that's what it said.

...Now, I can't find any evidence at all of this treaty - only other unrelated ones. The one I'm referring to deals very specifically with Taiwan. Anyone out there have any more info?

Originally posted by soficrow
Anyone out there have any more info?

Morning sofi!

Is this the agreement you are thinking of?

Sino-British Joint Declaration

1. The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that to recover the Hong Kong area (including Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, hereinafter referred to as Hong Kong) is the common aspiration of the entire Chinese people, and that it has decided to resume the exercise of sovereignty over Hong Kong with effect from 1 July 1997.

2. The Government of the United Kingdom declares that it will restore Hong Kong to the People's Republic of China with effect from 1 July 1997.

Originally posted by soficrow
I have a question:

Several years ago when the Taiwan issue first emerged, I recalled that a treaty had established a date for returning Taiwan to China from the British Empire. ...I found the treaty and that's what it said.

Taiwan was not a mandate of the Brittish empire ever that i know of, much less in recent history. i think what you mean is what Duzey is excerpting in his post, but it dealt with Hong Kong, not Taiwan.

Well, something did happen right after WWII in which the Brittish were involved, but i would have to look it up.

---edited for errors---

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Here is what happened during WWII to Taiwan.

Occupation by the Chinese Nationalists
The next major event which affected Taiwan's status was WW II: during the War, in 1943, the Allied Powers held the Cairo Conference, and on one sleepy afternoon in the hot Cairo sun, they decided to agree with Chiang Kai-shek's request that Taiwan be "returned to (Nationalist) China." This text found its way into the Cairo Declaration, but of course occurred without any presence or agreement of representatives of the Taiwanese people.

When the War actually ended in 1945, the Allied powers agreed that Chiang's troops would "temporarily occupy Taiwan, on behalf of the Allied forces." As we see, this "temporary" has become rather permanent. Initially, the Taiwanese were glad to get rid of the Japanese, but soon their joy turned into sorrow and anger: the newcomers from China turned out to be corrupt, repressive, and uncivilized.

Excerpted from.
www.taiwandc.org...

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by soficrow
Anyone out there have any more info?

Morning sofi!

Is this the agreement you are thinking of?

Sino-British Joint Declaration

No. ...The agreement I'm thinking of dealt specifically with Taiwan. ...and it's disappeared from the net. Had a copy on my old computer, but the hard drive's in storage.

...Course, could be misremembering the whole thing and it really was about Hong Kong all along...

Here is a link to the Cairo Declaration.

www.ndl.go.jp...

Here is an excerpt of the section which deals with Taiwan.

It is their purpose that Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the first World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China.

Excerpted from above link.

Formosa is one of the old names of Taiwan.

But, before this the Manchu officials had helped make Taiwan the first Asian Independent Republic. So they first agreed to make them independent and then they went back on their word and decided to occupy it?...

Oh and btw, Japan did not steal Formosa (Taiwan) the chinese agreed to give Taiwan in perpetuity (forever) to Japan.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Muaddib]