Is public transit only for low income minorities?

According to Milwaukee County Transit System it is.

I live in the country but I do my shopping in the suburbs. I noticed buses there all the time (seriously every single time) and they are almost always empty. I think at most I've seen 2 people in them. I've always thought, what a total waste of money. Today I looked up the bus service and found this article.


www.jsonline.com...

"proposing $5.9 million in reductions in bus service — a move that could mean cutting more than a dozen bus routes. Sixteen bus routes, Freeway Flyers, and special services to such events as Summerfest, ethnic festivals, the Wisconsin State Fair and Brewers home games are in limbo, according to MCTS officials.

If you look at us being stewards of services for low-income, minority populations that have endured 400 years of racism, it's hard for us to say we're going to take two miles of a bus route off of this road in the county so that we can preserve park-ride service for — and I'm overgeneralizing — a suburbanite who can afford their own car," said Dan Boehm, MCTS president and managing director.

I find that statement both racist and not surprising. These clowns are shutting down service (park-ride) which actually produce income vs ones that don't. The events buses are also not regularly scheduled routes, and are always filled to the brim. The other thing is that the state helps fund these services, 45%, that means we all pay, but apparently some of us are too "suburbanite" to use it!

Anyone that has brain cells should know that they should cut service routes that are used the least, it should not be based on what you think "suburbanites" might afford. I love public transportation and when it is geared toward everyone, it works and it works well,(I think of DC) when it is geared only for a certain segment it fails (Milwaukee). Some people are too stupid to figure that out, don't come crying when more cuts are needed next year!

a reply to: JAGStorm

And just in case anyone thought I was going to far in calling out the MCTS check out this bus, keep in mind it is a public funded bus!

The mural also lists instructions on "What to do if ICE comes to your door" and on the back reads "Celebrating over 160 years of Dreamers: Milwaukee is immigrant strong."

www.wpr.org...

a reply to: JAGStorm

The bus in the photo, and the policies it represents: Weird. Absurd. Dysfunctional.

Cheers

I can only speak to my experience, but when I lived in Portland, I used the train quite often. They were almost always full and included people from all types of race and backgrounds. Sure, you would occasionally see a homeless person on one late at night but otherwise a good mix of white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. Some young student types. Some white collar workers.

Again, this is one example and obviously it's not the same in other metro areas. I agree that if there is not enough ridership (that a word?), regardless of skin color or status, budget needs to be cut or funds need to be reallocated to routes that need it.

Wow you really seem to have a thing for poor and or minorities what with the 'Can poor people have babies" thread

That being said:

Having frequented NYC you see a large cross section of humanity taking the subway. Rich, poor (I mean who knows for sure really) so lets say Rich looking and poor looking, old, young, crazy etc. as it is mandatory to get around UNLESS you are mega rich

Suburban areas you will see old and young.

Its area dependent etc.

a reply to: JAGStorm

You can make it out as politics run amok and its true While the BUS in and of itself is paid for by city taxpayers, transit systems worldwide take in paid advertising to offset costs. If you look at the bus in question you see a section of white near the door. I could not blow up you pic enough to read the sponsor but its no doubt a community group.

But far be it for me to get in the way of a good strawman or poorman as the case may be

www.ridemcts.com...

It depends on the metro area.

Here in Chicago, everyone rides the "L" because it is so convenient. The same with buses. Obviously, it depends on the route, but I like living in a city with good public transportation. Chicago's train system is only second to NYCs. NYCs is so developed and convenient that there is absolutely no reason to own a car. In fact, most people don't own cars.

On the other hand, there are some cities that simply aren't dense enough to sustain public transportation financially. It will always be a money losing proposition. The big problem is that most people don't want to give up the convenience of driving and their own schedule. In smaller cities, public transit is often less convenient. The train stops are too infrequent or you need to change buses to get where you want to go.

With all that said, I do think public transit is worthy of the expense in general, but it needs to be managed effectively. If a route isn't being used, it needs to be cut.

I think cities need to find alternative methods of getting people out of cars.

I've long advocated for encouraging people to ride scooters and motorcycles (heck, even allow ATVs with turn signals or golf carts). Allow legal lane filtering / splitting in urban areas. Offer free street parking for bikes. This would do far more to alleviate traffic at a fraction of the cost of public transit.

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: JAGStorm

You can make it out as politics run amok and its true While the BUS in and of itself is paid for by city taxpayers, transit systems worldwide take in paid advertising to offset costs. If you look at the bus in question you see a section of white near the door. I could not blow up you pic enough to read the sponsor but its no doubt a community group.

But far be it for me to get in the way of a good strawman or poorman as the case may be

www.ridemcts.com...

Nope the bus is paid 45% by the state 12% local (city taxpayers) 16% federal, and 27% passenger fare.

www.ridemcts.com...

I'm sure it might be a community group or such, but is that appropriate on a bus that is publicly funded was my question.
If so would everyone be ok if a White Pride group advertised, or an anti-abortion group, or ............One with Trump on it??

originally posted by: FredT
Wow you really seem to have a thing for poor and or minorities what with the 'Can poor people have babies" thread

That being said:

Having frequented NYC you see a large cross section of humanity taking the subway. Rich, poor (I mean who knows for sure really) so lets say Rich looking and poor looking, old, young, crazy etc. as it is mandatory to get around UNLESS you are mega rich

Suburban areas you will see old and young.

Its area dependent etc.

Nope, have nothing against the poor at all, I have a big problem with wasteful spending of my money. And obviously I'm right because of the wastefulness they are having to cut routes. Instead of cutting the right routes (little used ones) they are cutting "suburbanite" ones. That is wrong.

Oh and speaking of wasteful spending, one of the reasons they are in trouble is because of pensions... apparently they let bus drivers retire at ...................47 years old!!

a reply to: JAGStorm

JAGStorm, what I noted in your original comments were the words "park-ride". Yeah, if they're cutting that out, and it is a money maker, then they're just being stupid. But a what a great opportunity for them to signal their self-perceived virtue.

Cheers

I would do public transportation like the system set up on International Drive in Orlando, FL (iTrolly) for non-hurried trips.

a reply to: Edumakated

I've long advocated for encouraging people to ride scooters and motorcycles (heck, even allow ATVs with turn signals or golf carts). Allow legal lane filtering / splitting in urban areas. Offer free street parking for bikes. This would do far more to alleviate traffic at a fraction of the cost of public transit.

I had a long discussion about this with my brother. I happen to love the bike and scooter rentals. Apparently a lot of people don't. People in Seattle are throwing in them water, destroying them and lighting them on fire. I can't tell you how many lone tires I saw. Some homeless guy even fashioned a rickshaw out of one. Good idea but how can they keep that business afloat with people destroying them....

seattle.cbslocal.com...

a reply to: JAGStorm

Fair enough I do admit ignorance on the degree of public funding but:

Yes it would be okay and the MTC would be hard pressed to say no to a Trump 2020 ad IF they allowed others. A hate group on the other hand? Not likely. Some systems MTA, SFMuni and other have banned ALL political adds and it would be up to those cities to decide if the ICE message was a political ad or social commentary (again for the community itself to decide)

The landmark 1974 case 1974 Lehman v. City of Shaker Heights SCOTUS ruled that city owned public transportation was not a public forum thus the 1st and 14th amendment was not applicable "The only additional standard that the city must meet is that its allocation of advertisement space “must not be arbitrary, capricious, or invidious.”

a reply to: JAGStorm

Woah we have common ground here. The whole scooter bike thing is out of hand and its a modern day plague blocking streets and the like

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

I've long advocated for encouraging people to ride scooters and motorcycles (heck, even allow ATVs with turn signals or golf carts). Allow legal lane filtering / splitting in urban areas. Offer free street parking for bikes. This would do far more to alleviate traffic at a fraction of the cost of public transit.

I had a long discussion about this with my brother. I happen to love the bike and scooter rentals. Apparently a lot of people don't. People in Seattle are throwing in them water, destroying them and lighting them on fire. I can't tell you how many lone tires I saw. Some homeless guy even fashioned a rickshaw out of one. Good idea but how can they keep that business afloat with people destroying them....

seattle.cbslocal.com...

I'm not talking about those stupid millennial scooters that are popping up everywhere (although they are quite popular in some neighborhoods here now). I mean scooters like Vespas and motorcycles.

In most heavily populated countries, scooters and motorcycles are the best way to get around an urban environment. Pretty much every country except the US allows lane filtering/sharing where people on scooters/motorcycles can ride between slow moving or stopped cars. THis helps alleviate traffic. Only CA allows it here in the states, although I believe WA (or Oregon) just made it a version of it legal.

This video explains how it works and why it is safer for motorcyclist.

a reply to: Edumakated

I'm not talking about those stupid millennial scooters that are popping up

Not so sure I'd be OK with that. Ever seen traffic in India with those scooters?
I think we might have missed that bandwagon too, Americans are notorious about not being courteous to
motorcycle/scooter riders where other countries have always had it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

My only thought... WTF?

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: JAGStorm

My only thought... WTF?

Do expand, the whole thing, Me , Milwaukee?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

I'm not talking about those stupid millennial scooters that are popping up

Not so sure I'd be OK with that. Ever seen traffic in India with those scooters?
I think we might have missed that bandwagon too, Americans are notorious about not being courteous to
motorcycle riders where other countries have always had it.

Yeah, the traffic rules/laws over there are a bit "lax" to say the least. Not really what is being advocated though.

Motorcycles/scooters take up far less space than a car. Every bike is one less car. Further, allowing that bike to move to the front with lane filter/sharing reduces the traffic queue.

The point is people need an incentive to ditch the car. I rode a motorcycle for my 10 mile commute because it was a bit faster than driving because there were places I could lane split in heavy traffic where a car could not. In addition, parking was cheaper. It just made sense. Faster and cheaper.