Pope Francis 'not afraid' of schism with US Catholics

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: Gandalf77

Just use your favorite search engine and use the search term 'Church abuse of minors'

Why could you not do that yourself?

P

I'm well aware of the abuse scandal. I was asking if you could provide proof/evidence that Pope Francis and the last Pope (Benedict) are "heavily involved."

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: pheonix358

Do you have proof, evidence, sources, etc. that you’d care to share?

A report released this weekend by a former Vatican ambassador to the United States charges that Pope Francis knew about sexual abuse by former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, removed a suspension placed on him by Pope Benedict, and proceeded to make the known abuser one of his most trusted advisors. Pope Francis “knew from at least June 23, 2013 that McCarrick was a serial predator, [but] he covered for him to the bitter end,” wrote Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, nuncio to Washington from 2011-2016, before demanding the pontiff resign.

The pope knew.

That is a damning allegation coming from a very senior church leader. It also corresponds to anecdotal evidence piling up against Francis. Earlier this year, Pope Francis attacked Chilean sex-abuse victims for “calumny” and defended the bishop who covered up for a pedophile priest. The pope ignored complaints about the enabling bishop before promoting him in 2015.

www.usatoday.com...

Thank you. I wondered if McCarrick and Vigano might come up. That's a tangled web to unpack.
Pope Francis defrocked McCarrick and ordered him to a life of prayer and penance. McCarrick is rotten, and it doesn't seem like the Pope is covering for him.

Vigano has leveled some heavy-duty allegations at Pope Francis, but that's really all they are at this point--allegations.
In many ways, Vigano represents the old, conservative guard in the church--the folks who don't like the reforms Francis has put in place. Figures like Vigano stand to lose money and influence with Francis at the helm, and of course they don't like it. Pope Francis does things like turn properties that were being used like museums to display a bunch of ostentatious decorations, relics, etc. into homeless shelters. The politics (Romanita) are complex to say the least, and in many ways Vigano represents the political opposition to Francis that we can see in the US with movements like the neo-traditionalists. There are still plenty of Catholics who think the church went astray with the reforms of Vatican II.

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: Gandalf77
Thoughtful thread OP--S&F.

I love Pope Francis. True to his name, he's walking the walk and doing the Lord's work.
The ultraconservatives in the US are annoying and need to pipe down.

Funny because his fellow catholics all over the world dont feel the same way, they borderline think the guy is the antichrist.

The majority of catholics like him. The ultraconservatives hate him.

The pope (any pope) cannot be theoretically the antichrist. According to prophet Daniel the antichrist is a political figure, a king, and he will come from the Roman empire, quite a large place indeed. Prophet Isaiah narrowed it down to call the antichrist "The Assyrian". That means anywhere from the East coast of the Mediterranean to Euphrates river, the land of ancient Assyria that mostly has been part of the Roman empire. So much of the pope antichrist who is born in Argentina. Not even theoretically fit, let alone what he teaches.

I suggest that the ultraconservatives anticipate a major event that will radicalize them even further. And the pope knows that too, therefore his fatherly warning in advance. Why on earth they would attack the pope for saying the Climate must be protected, the planet we are living in, the living species, and of course the most vulnerable among the humans the poor ones from the poor countries? Isn't it exactly what the Gospel preaches? And what other popes preached? As he said in the interview, he only repeats the words of St John Paul II.

Maybe the change of energy source, that the pope advocates for years, will involve a radical new technology that will border scifi. I wrote in other threads and here only will mention it. Zero point energy or the energy of the vacuum is nothing new for the specialized science, and in no way sci fi serial. Check Arxiv.org. If such new quantum energy exchanges the carbon fuel, it may well develop in the next decades to be fit enough to power more advanced spaceships than today's and ultimately to allow humanity to settle on a nearby habitable planet...

That would be a death sentence for the ultraconservatives, who battle the idea of other worlds since the time of Galileo. So maybe that's why so much hatred against anything good this pope is doing, particularly about the Climate, and against anything the international community is doing for the climate too. There is no logical explanation why the ultraconservatives will hate the Climate efforts so much, and will pretend all is a hoax. How hoax if we burn up every summer more and more? Seems they are motivated much beyond the visible explanations. Because one cannot just find a clean energy source without opening the door of all that hidden research started by Tesla and continued in secret during the Cold war.

In other words, the ultraconservatives have already decided their action, and only wait the moment to announce it. Maybe that moment approaches now, with the so much anticipated Climate summit in the UN, especially if the new energy source will be revealed on it (I am eager to see what will happen). And that's why pope Francis warns them and tells the majority of Catholics to be prepared of the possibility of a schism. Sure he has his sources to know in advance. He has never spoken like that for 6 years as pope.

Let me repeat once more the words of pope Francis said on Sept 1:
"Now is the time to abandon our dependence on fossil fuels and move, quickly and decisively, towards forms of clean energy and a sustainable and circular economy. Our prayers and appeals are directed first at raising the awareness of political and civil leaders… [who should] renew commitments decisive for directing the planet towards life, not death.” www.edie.net...

How could those be words of an evil person who "paves the way of the antichrist", as the ultraconservatives usually say, to avoid naming him antichrist? those are words of a person who deeply cares for the world that Jesus Christ died for!

a reply to: Gandalf77

Thanks Gandalf! I appreciate it!

a reply to: 2012newstart

You're very welcome! Glad I can help.

The issues you raise in this thread are near and dear to me--particularly what you're saying about climate and the environment. I'm going to check out that site about zero-point energy--fascinating.

a reply to: Gandalf77

thanks, we all help, it is not just my or your cause

All those Fridays for future show that the young generation just don't buy the status quo anymore
Greta traveled by sail to New York, as a center figure although just a girl, I believe not without a good reason.
Hope the UN conference will go beyond the usual wind power and solar panels, that are good but not in the capability to substitute the fossil fuels. Otherwise, for decades of their use, we wouldn't be where we are now.

In Arxiv.org you need to put keywords, maybe with "quotes", you may try other exotic words. Amazing how far they go. And that is not even secret.

And the deniers will say again, sci fi, impossible, or...all the global warming hysteria is political, against Trump, or against the traditional catholicism, in the case of the fanatical catholics. Cause - effect for them do not matter. The light show of rare animals projected on St Peter's,w as called by the fanatics "abomination". Why didn't they add to it "of desolation"?

It is a miracle this pope has been elected, after all. But I believe the majority common catholics have nothing to do with that fanaticism and will choose the life of the planet and of themselves over the medieval lies that have nothing in common with the Gospel.



OK I will take a break in posting, waiting for the next week big events

a reply to: Gandalf77

I'm well aware of the abuse scandal. I was asking if you could provide proof/evidence that Pope Francis and the last Pope (Benedict) are "heavily involved."

Just research what job the last pope had prior to him being elected Pope.

That is all you need to know.

P

a reply to: Gandalf77

Here is him supporting the priest and saying the accusers are lying.

Pope Francis has accused victims of Chile’s most notorious paedophile of slander, in an astonishing end to a visit meant to help heal the wounds of a sex abuse scandal that has cost the Catholic church its credibility in the country.

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: 2012newstart

Many of us have realized this long ago. This Pope has only reaffirmed our feelings that he is not only out of touch, but anti- American.

a reply to: GD

In his interview he said, the opposition comes from everywhere not only from America, there are even individuals within the Curia.
But yes, if part of the American catholics group themselves around fanatic priests in communities known as "Latin mass" churches, and oppose openly pope Francis, then the possibility for them to go in schism is pretty real. Too bad for them, who think they are the best of the best among the 1.2 bln Catholics many of who live much much poorer than they do.