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WTF? UK lawmakers physically restrain the speaker of the house to keep him from leaving.

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posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: Aspie


So why not hold another vote right now? It's a very big issue for all of the peoples future. Why not hold a conformation vote of the PEOPLE right now?




posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Thank you Sook



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: Middleoftheroad

People over here are saying that the deals being proposed are predatory in some cases, giving US firms the right to sue the British NHS (National Health Service) under spurious circumstances, potentially #ing up our healthcare system. I have no problem with deals being done, so long as they leave our most hallowed institutions firmly alone. The NHS isn't perfect, but the healthcare in this country, when properly engaged with, is some of the best in the world, and it is free at the point of use. I have a friend whose medical implants surpassed the cost of £1,000,000 when he was 25 years old - a special pacemaker had been replaced several times with upgraded versions since childhood - he probably would have died as a teenager without it. It is a situation which NOBODY complains about, because we know that if it was us in his situation, the system would provide us all equally with the treatments & technologies which are necessary to keep us alive & comfortable, and we know that this would carry on throughout our lives, cradle to grave, and even though I hate Marxists on principle, healthcare systems such as the NHS can still remain in place as 'charitable' institutions at the hands of conservatives, and do not need to be shackled with dodgy financial scams from abroad. They do not need to be privatised or meddled with in terms of weird new insurance practices, etc.

Everyone should tread carefully around the NHS, because if it was damaged by reckless deals with outsiders, then the people of the UK would be up in arms against those that caused its downfall. We don't have any actual arms, as you will be aware - but sternly worded letters will flow like rivers in the streets, mark my words.......




posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

I don't know their laws, that would be a crime in America. Their people/laws can decide.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04
They're re-enacting a scene from history, from the time of Charles I. "Petition of Right", March 1629.
www.parliament.uk...
In other words, a bit of self-conscious posturing.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Thanks for that. Although from what I read holding him was really an act of rebellion against the King. So unless they are defying the Queen I don't think it's quite the same. But thank you for showing me what their idea was.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Aspie

If parliment opens again in a few weeks with the Queen making a speech, why doesn't she just call for another Brexit vote, That should easily decide for the direction to take.



Ummm...knowing your absolutely absurd leftist ideology...its really no surprise that you would champion...holding repeated votes until your preferred outcome is reached...

Not shocking at all...true to form In fact...








YouSir
edit on 10-9-2019 by YouSir because: damned tiny phone interface...



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:05 PM
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You should see the security for the chambers inside the house, Old men dressed like pirates, armed with swords.
All of this parliment is old fashion crap. More for show than anything else.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Aspie

If parliment opens again in a few weeks with the Queen making a speech, why doesn't she just call for another Brexit vote, That should easily decide for the direction to take.



Ummm...knowing your absolutely absurd leftist ideology...its really no surprise that you would champion...holding repeated votes until your preferred outcome is reached...

Not shocking at all...true to form In fact...








YouSir


2016: "We have to leave the EU in order to assert the supreme sovereignty of UK law."
2019: "We have to ignore the supreme sovereignty of UK Law in order to leave the EU."



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Brexit 101

To answer your specific point, the act is symbolic, as is a lot of stuff in the UK parliament to show displeasure at Parliament being prorogued/suspended/call it what you will.

There are various acts of ceremonial theatre that crop up from time to time, the most famous being Black Rod and the state opening of Parliament. Worth a google read.

As for Brexit....

This all started with Dave Camerons ego, in an attempt to appease the Euro Sceptics in the Tory party. He ran an election manifesto that called for a vote on EU membership, so eventually we had to have a referendum.

The referendum had no legal bearing. It was designed to guide parliament and the government of the day on the opinion of the country. Both sides of the argument fought dirty and lied a whole lot but Cameron's government smugly believed the vote would be to remain, and everyone in it went to bed on the night of the referendum expecting that they would wake up the following day with a remain vote, and a better power base in the Tory party, and build off their considerable parliamentary majority to move forward.

Except, that didn't happen.

So Cameron buggered off, even though he said he wouldn't if he lost, and eventually Teresa May took charge.

May then decided to throw a snap election to consolidate her majority and pass a deal. That backfired spectacularly and she ended up with an agreement with the DUP (Irish fanatics) that barely propped up her government.

Somewhere along the line - even though the referendum wasn't legally binding and probably to save face - (and without a majority) May decided that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that's when it all hit the fan, because instead of negotiating a deal first, then triggering the leave mechanism, she did it the other way round.

That then set up a storm, because the leave side of the argument didn't really have a plan (because they thought they weren't going to win and were relying on bull# in the main) and the 'negotiations' started from a position of absolute chaos.

Eventually May came up with a deal with the EU, but the leave side of the Tory party weren't happy with it because 'Brexit means Brexit' and the whole set of shenannigans surrounding her deal fell through, because she couldn't command a parliamentary majority to pass it into law.

Two years later and May had got no where, and after trying to pass the same bill regarding her deal three times, resigned.

That then triggered another leadership contest, which Boris Johnston won. Johnston is a hard line eurosceptic and wants to leave the EU without a deal, which is akin to essentially ripping the UK out of a long term mutual partnership arrangement by cutting off an arm. Johnston's government seems to believe that only the UK side of the argument matters and the other EU member states who have been the UK's partners for a long time can go stuff themselves.

In the meantime - following May's attempt at a deal - other MP's and the public have realised that the leave camp didn't have a clue what they were talking about and were winging it all along, so the calls for a second referendum have increased.

At this point you have to understand that even Nigel Farage, the bloated windbag mouthpiece of UKIP recognised at the time of the referendum that if it was a close result there might need to be a second referendum (although he seems to have amnesia about that now)

So, in a country of 68 million people, 44 million were eligible to vote in the referendum. 72% of that number voted, and the winning margin for leave was just over 1.5 million votes.

This is then is the 'majority' that ardent leavers stick to as the 'will of the people'

The remain side argue that the landscape has changed - a lot - and that most people hadn't realised what a snow job was being done on them during the original referendum.

Boris Johnston doesn't want a second referendum. He wants to leave the EU on the 31st October with no deal. Parliament has passed a law that says he can't do that - but that law hasn't been formally accepted and come into being yet, so, in a sneaky move Johnston has attempted to prorogue (suspend) parliament to prevent further debates and simply drop out by default with no deal on October 31st.

That has backfired, so he has attempted to call an election. The election call is clever because he can go to the Queen, ask to dissolve parliament and set a date for the election and in doing so the law would not be passed until the next sitting of a new parliament, which would (amazingly) be after 31st October and then be too late.

The opposition parties know this, and won't agree to an election, so we are now in a state of deadlock, and parliament has been suspended, with the opposition parties not willing to hold an election until the law is in place to prevent no deal.

So thats how we got here, in a nutshell.



edit on 10/9/19 by neformore because: tidying up



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: ManFromEurope

The GCHQ just called to say thank you very much for ensuring you do as they say and not as they do...

Fail



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: contextual

So doing what they are supposed to do is ignoring the law? They have to ignore the law to not leave the EU, you have it backwards.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Aspie


So why not hold another vote right now? It's a very big issue for all of the peoples future. Why not hold a conformation vote of the PEOPLE right now?

WE don't need that for general elections and we don't need that for referenda. Otherwise, losers would want a third vote, and so on.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: 11SK1180
You should see the security for the chambers inside the house, Old men dressed like pirates, armed with swords.
All of this parliment is old fashion crap. More for show than anything else.


Granted, old man pirates are probably the best security. To survive being a pirate into old age means you must be one BAMF.

On topic: I'm going to leave the politics out and just watch this situation unfold. Should be interesting.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: micpsi

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Aspie


So why not hold another vote right now? It's a very big issue for all of the peoples future. Why not hold a conformation vote of the PEOPLE right now?

WE don't need that for general elections and we don't need that for referenda. Otherwise, losers would want a third vote, and so on.


We do that for General ejections. Since ww2 we have averaged one every 3 and half years.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 03:08 PM
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Was quite sad to see that, just more drama though we're getting used to it but that was quite shocking.

I like Bercow, as speaker he has acted in his role and I understand that some might not like some of the decisions he has made, but he has been a respected member of parliament for years and its shameful how he has been treated by the Tories whose side he once sat on and who elected him to the chair. To then run against him (against convention) and treat him the way they have is a disgrace, he is one of very few politicians (on both sides of the house) I have respect for.

Lets be clear though I think here is a bit of over exaggeration here, we was not "physically restrained" he freely got up from the chair and lead parliament out. There was quite the protest on the side of the opposition about him doing this and he himself had some harsh words to say about the nature of proroguing parliament but that he would pay his part.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: contextual

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Aspie

If parliment opens again in a few weeks with the Queen making a speech, why doesn't she just call for another Brexit vote, That should easily decide for the direction to take.



Ummm...knowing your absolutely absurd leftist ideology...its really no surprise that you would champion...holding repeated votes until your preferred outcome is reached...

Not shocking at all...true to form In fact...








YouSir


2016: "We have to leave the EU in order to assert the supreme sovereignty of UK law."
2019: "We have to ignore the supreme sovereignty of UK Law in order to leave the EU."


Its #ing crazy isn't it, thats exactly whats happening in a nutshell.

You can't have a second referendum that would be undemocratic....

Lets go against the democratic will of parliament.



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan
To answer your specific point, the act is symbolic, as is a lot of stuff in the UK parliament to show displeasure at Parliament being prorogued/suspended/call it what you will.
There are various acts of ceremonial theatre that crop up from time to time, the most famous being Black Rod and the state opening of Parliament. Worth a google read.
As for Brexit....
This all started with Dave Camerons ego, in an attempt to appease the Euro Sceptics in the Tory party. He ran an election manifesto that called for a vote on EU membership, so eventually we had to have a referendum.
The referendum had no legal bearing. It was designed to guide parliament and the government of the day on the opinion of the country. Both sides of the argument fought dirty and lied a whole lot but Cameron's government smugly believed the vote would be to remain, and everyone in it went to bed on the night of the referendum expecting that they would wake up the following day with a remain vote, and a better power base in the Tory party, and build off their considerable parliamentary majority to move forward.
Except, that didn't happen.
So Cameron buggered off, even though he said he wouldn't if he lost, and eventually Teresa May took charge.
May then decided to throw a snap election to consolidate her majority and pass a deal. That backfired spectacularly and she ended up with an agreement with the DUP (Irish fanatics) that barely propped up her government.

Somewhere along the line - even though the referendum wasn't legally binding and probably to save face - (and without a majority) May decided that 'Brexit means Brexit' and that's when it all hit the fan, because instead of negotiating a deal first, then triggering the leave mechanism, she did it the other way round.
That then set up a storm, because the leave side of the argument didn't really have a plan (because they thought they weren't going to win and were relying on bull# in the main) and the 'negotiations' started from a position of absolute chaos.


Correct up to that point!



Eventually May came up with a deal with the EU, but the leave side of the Tory party weren't happy with it because 'Brexit means Brexit' and the whole set of shenannigans surrounding her deal fell through, because she couldn't command a parliamentary majority to pass it into law.
Two years later and May had got no where, and after trying to pass the same bill regarding her deal three times, resigned.


No body was happy with Mrs Mays deal......she also said "No deal is better than

a bad deal"
and thats exactly what her deal was, it was worse than staying in

the EU, and the EU would decide WHEN or IF we would actually be allowed to leave

of course the EU were happy with the deal they were taking everything and conceding

nothing.

Who in their right minds keeps on presenting the same thing when it has been turned

down not just twice but THREE TIMES and she is apparently trying to resurect it yet

again





That then triggered another leadership contest, which Boris Johnston won. Johnston is a hard line eurosceptic and wants to leave the EU without a deal, which is akin to essentially ripping the UK out of a long term mutual partnership arrangement by cutting off an arm. Johnston's government seems to believe that only the UK side of the argument matters and the other EU member states who have been the UK's partners for a long time can go stuff themselves.


Oh the ^^^drama^^^^


Boris Johnson would like a deal, but unlike May is prepared to carry out the result

of the referendum and leave without a deal.

Partners?? The second largest financial contributer of 27 countries of course they

wont want to loose their *cash cow*



In the meantime - following May's attempt at a deal - other MP's and the public have realised that the leave camp didn't have a clue what they were talking about and were winging it all along, so the calls for a second referendum have increased.


Ask anyone from the leave camp if they didn't know what they were voting for

They ALL KNOW/KNEW exactly what they were voting for, leaving the

corrupt undemocractic EU. The UK only ever joined a common market, NOT a

political union.


At this point you have to understand that even Nigel Farage, the bloated windbag mouthpiece of UKIP recognised at the time of the referendum that if it was a close result there might need to be a second referendum (although he seems to have amnesia about that now)


You cannot have a second referendum if you havent implemented the first.

That is a EU tactic that they regularly perform......keep voting till we (the EU)

get the verdict we want.


So, in a country of 68 million people, 44 million were eligible to vote in the referendum. 72% of that number voted, and the winning margin for leave was just over 1.5 million votes.


Voting in the UK is a right, and not compulsary If they cant be bothered to vote

they have no right to complain at the result? However it was the highest

ever election turn out



This is then is the 'majority' that ardent leavers stick to as the 'will of the people'


Are you saying it wasn't a majority?



The remain side argue that the landscape has changed - a lot - and that most people hadn't realised what a snow job was being done on them during the original referendum.


Well they would wouldn't they?

But ask any leaver and they will say 'they knew exactly what they were voting for'



Boris Johnston doesn't want a second referendum. He wants to leave the EU on the 31st October with no deal. Parliament has passed a law that says he can't do that - but that law hasn't been formally accepted and come into being yet, so, in a sneaky move Johnston has attempted to prorogue (suspend) parliament to prevent further debates and simply drop out by default with no deal on October 31st.


Boris Johnson is attempting to give the people of the UK what they voted for



That has backfired, so he has attempted to call an election. The election call is clever because he can go to the Queen, ask to dissolve parliament and set a date for the election and in doing so the law would not be passed until the next sitting of a new parliament, which would (amazingly) be after 31st October and then be too late.
The opposition parties know this, and won't agree to an election, so we are now in a state of deadlock, and parliament has been suspended, with the opposition parties not willing to hold an election until the law is in place to prevent no deal.



He is infact giving the opposition party what they have spent five years arguing

for........



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You hold a referendum and the result should be implemented.

Only the losers want to have it re-run.

What should we do? best of 3? best of 5? or just keep going until the moaning windbags get their way and win one?



posted on Sep, 10 2019 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: micpsi
I can see that cry for a third vote if it was an open ended situation, but this, if it is going to be done has to be done by the end of next month. Couldn't they even try?



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