August jobs report showed a strong economy — and that's very bad for Democrats

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Bad or Good Dems have zero chance of winning they got some crazy ideas that would literally cause a massive sell off if they ever win. The economy would imploid and everyone would hold on to cash.

I'm sorry that I brought up inability to understand this specialized unemployment math, but it sure seems different than factual numbers to me. I only bring up the obvious to make a point about the topic, so I'll spell it out here.

What I'm trying to point out is that these economic reports are being run through the spinner to try and make it look good (for Republicans apparently). If the report defies common sense and basic math, then just redefine a few words, toss in some variables and juggle the stats around until you can make it sound legit.

As far as people not looking for work, they must have an income of some kind to live. But let's not count the self-employed worker who does contract work, he's just working under the table. No need to include people who gave up job hunting, they are probably just freeloaders or bums, we can't count income from salvaging metals or collecting returnable bottles as a from of employment. Black market criminals? Like prostitutes and drug dealers? You've got to be kidding me.

If we redefine people not looking for work as self-employed, the employment figures would look great. As far as those who are unemployed, I have to stick with the common sense definition, people who are not employed.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

If we redefine people not looking for work as self-employed, the employment figures would look great. As far as those who are unemployed, I have to stick with the common sense definition, people who are not employed.

No they wouldn't.

Because you would also have to go back to every single jobs report and apply that redefinition and review the result and compare every recomputed result to every other recomputed result. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.

Furthermore, you cannot just say that people not looking for work are self-employed. Self employed folks are working. Folks not looking for work are not working. They could be students, early retirement, recovering from health problems, caring for family who have health problems, or just flat up given up hope, or any number of other reasons.

a reply to: rnaa

I see your point, but do you see mine? You seem to defend a system that obfuscates and spins the truth to make things appear to be better than they actually are.

Those examples you gave of certain types of people who aren't looking for a job is valid enough, but only those people looking for work who have applied for unemployment are counted as unemployed. Is there a definition for people who are not employed, looking for work or not, making any money how they can and not receiving unemployment benefits? What are they called? Nobody? Let's call them the unenjoyed.

Im in Sales. Life Safety Systems for a large multinational corporation to be Specific. I see the ups and downs of the economy...Im on track to make over 60K on commissions/bonuses this year along with my decent salary and average benefits package. I have been in this business for near a decade. The last two years have been gang busters. I have made more money in the last two years than the for years combined before those last two years. Business Expenditures are how you can see the true state of the economy. If things are running good, company's spend money. If the economy is in the tank, company's hoard money. Not only are other businesses spending like there is no tomorrow, my money hungry company is on track to add another 300 sales people by the end of the year. That will also entail hiring another 500 admin and a handful of managers and supervisors for them all.


The American Economy is strong and shows no signs of slowing.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Definitions of Employment

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics has defined the basic employment concepts as follows:[23]

• People with jobs are employed.
  
• People who are jobless, looking for jobs within the last 4 weeks, and available for work are unemployed.
  
• People who are neither employed nor have looked for a job within the last 4 weeks are not included in the labor force.
  

Employed

Employed persons consist of:

• All people who did any work for pay or profit during the survey reference week.
  
• All people who did at least 15 hours of unpaid work in a family-owned enterprise operated by someone in their household.
  
• All people who were temporarily absent from their regular jobs, whether they were paid or not.
  

Full-time employed persons work 35 hours or more, considering all jobs, while part-time employed persons work less than 35 hours.


Unemployed

Who is counted as unemployed?

• People are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work.
  
• Workers expecting to be recalled from layoff are counted as unemployed, whether or not they have engaged in a specific job-seeking activity.
  
• In all other cases, the individual must have been engaged in at least one active job search activity in the 4 weeks preceding the interview and be available for work (except for temporary illness) in order to be counted as unemployed.
  

Labor force

Who is not in the labor force?

• Persons not in the labor force are those who are not classified as employed or unemployed during the survey reference week.
  
• Labor force measures are based on the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years old and over. (Excluded are persons under 16 years of age, all persons confined to institutions such as nursing homes and prisons, and persons on active duty in the Armed Forces.)
  
• The labor force is made up of the employed and those defined as unemployed. Expressed as a formula, the labor force equals employed plus unemployed persons.
  
• The remainder (those who have no job and have not looked for one in the last 4 weeks) are counted as "not in the labor force." Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep some others out of the labor force.
  
• "Marginally attached" workers are those not in the labor force because they have not searched for a job in the prior 4 weeks. However, they have searched in the prior 12 months and are both available for work and want to do so. Most marginally attached workers are not searching due to being discouraged over job prospects or due to being in school.

These definitions allow valid comparisons across all data and for people to understand what is being measured.

United States Bureau of Labor statistics

The Bureau of Labor Statistics also calculates six alternate measures of unemployment, U1 through U6, that measure different aspects of unemployment:[50]

• U1: Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
  
• U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
  
• U3: Official unemployment rate per the ILO definition occurs when people are without jobs and they have actively looked for work within the past four weeks.
  
• U4: U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
  
• U5: U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
  
• U6: U5 + Part-time workers who want to work full-time, but cannot due to economic reasons (underemployment).
  

a reply to: rnaa

The definition sucks, but you are correct, it is the one we have and it does allow for valid comparisons. People need to stop being hung up on whether the term captures what it should capture, and simply use it to make comparisons.

"Unemployment" as defined by the government is low. Actual employment, defined by people actually working, is high.

According to AOC, Trump's economy is so good there are so many jobs everyone can have 2 or 3. I don't know why she would make such a glowing endorsement for Trump but she did.

Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs.

So everyone can have 2 jobs, and unemployment can be at record lows. Normally there are not enough jobs for everyone to have 1, now they can all get 2. (Disclaimer: AOC is an idiot and wrong, just funny)

a reply to: butcherguy

What about those who steal and hurt many people so that they don't have to work and end up being rich, they are unemployed too.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: rnaa

I see your point, but do you see mine? You seem to defend a system that obfuscates and spins the truth to make things appear to be better than they actually are.

Those examples you gave of certain types of people who aren't looking for a job is valid enough, but only those people looking for work who have applied for unemployment are counted as unemployed. Is there a definition for people who are not employed, looking for work or not, making any money how they can and not receiving unemployment benefits? What are they called? Nobody? Let's call them the unenjoyed.

Actually only those who get unemployment ebneifits are counted as unemployed. Once the benefits run out they are considered out of the work force.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

that's not how they calculated unemployment, I would read the website if I were you. It's a poll

a reply to: rnaa

Thanks, those definitions actually do make sense to me now. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics U1 through U6, I had never heard of before, so I see how they break things down to the details. Actually, I never looked into the Bureau before, just knew about the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Agency and some of their stuff.

originally posted by:

Actually only those who get unemployment ebneifits are counted as unemployed. Once the benefits run out they are considered out of the work force.

That is simply NOT correct.

Not all unemployed are on benefits for whatever reason. Furthermore, every state and/or county and/or city has its own benefit qualification schedules, but the unemployment statistics operate under a consistent definition nationwide.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

that's not how they calculated unemployment, I would read the website if I were you. It's a poll

Feel free to explain to all of us stupid people how it actually works....

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Someone is not paying attention.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

wage growth is not crazy high for the average american... Stop listening to trump he is a liar.
wage growth is stagnant as it has been.
More jobs were expected than were actually added. Dont ignore the real news for the fake # trump pumps out on a daily basis. He is full of it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

PS Orange man sucks.

a reply to: ambassado12

Then explain the blue wave.
The right is spinning right now and they dont know what to do to stave off their own demise.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

wage growth is not crazy high for the average american... Stop listening to trump he is a liar.
wage growth is stagnant as it has been.
More jobs were expected than were actually added. Dont ignore the real news for the fake # trump pumps out on a daily basis. He is full of it.

I didn't source Trump, I didn't listen to Trump. How about the NYT.

Wage growth, long stuck in neutral, has at last found a higher gear.

wages rose at a healthy clip, and people who had not been looking for work returned to the job market

www.nytimes.com...

We had a mid year pay raise never happened before. They announced a tentative bonus multiplier yesterday that would give me 25% of my pay as a bonus. The best in 20 years. The dims want that money bad even the ones working here.

a reply to: mikell

Didn't happen Trump lies #OrangeManBad.