Door blows off 777X in stress test

a reply to: thebozeian

I would lean for scrapped. The case for the short model always give way to the sheer economics of more seats as we saw with the 787-3 and the A350-800

Boeing will make it worth Qantas's while to drop the model in favor of a slightly bigger one.

As far a a cargo 777X, given the number of legacy 777 that will be available the metrics for now may favor conversion vs. new

a reply to: FredT
Thats my feeling to Fred. As you say the history of the short body models for virtually every widebody has been less than stellar. The only one I can think of that had any success would be the 767-200, and only then because it was the initial model and one of the very first modern twins. Even as far back as the 707 short fuse airliner derivatives have had limited appeal (the 707-138 specials built for Qantas in 1958 come to mind). The 747SP never attracted many takers around 50 from the top of my head, and short body A-340's didn't sell half as well as their A-330 twins. The 777-200's sold reasonably well but were mostly overtaken by the -300ER in later years. And as you pointed to, the 787-3 and 350-800 both died stillborn.

Boeing have offered QF 777-9's with only around 300 pax and an aux tank in the Fwd cargo a la the 744ER. Presumably the offer assumed that the -8ULR model would be built and the -9's later reconfigured with higher seating. Pricing was also said to be very good. My money is on the 350 though, the only potential stumbling block there is the currently disastrous relationship with RR that QF has which could sour the deal. However money and performance talks.

I think pax 777-200 conversions to freighters will most likely target replacement of current 747 conversions and up scaling from 767 freighters. I still think that a dedicated 777X freighter is likely though, in whatever fuselage length they eventually settle on.

a reply to: thebozeian

Well the current RR and QF relationship, and the hot mess the Trent has become overall.

a reply to: Zaphod58
The T900 fiasco is what caused it to get so ugly. But as I said time, performance and money will tell.

Boeing said the failure occurred at 99% of ultimate load. They said the aircraft suffered an aft fuselage depressurization during the test. The root cause assessment is expected to take several weeks but they don't expect it to impact their schedule.

australianaviation.com.au...

a reply to: Zaphod58
I wonder if it was the whole aft cargo door or just the bulk cargo?

assessment is expected to take several weeks but they don't expect it to impact their schedule.

A more regularly uttered sentence at Boeing , of increasingly less relevance to reality it would seem. Isn't that exactly what they said about MAX and KC-46? This may very well just be an engineering issue that could have happened to any development team. BUT it just seems to keep rearing its ugly head at Boeing more and more regularly. I dont think its a problem of pushing technical envelopes per se or limits of material science, although that has certainly contributed particularly with engine technology. It rather seems to be cultural, bad designs being promoted like 787 battery chargers, KC-46 cargo locks, forgetting to highlight MCAS, continous FOD problems in the tanker program and now this.
As Fred said in the KC-46 thread, the entire Executive team needs a mass purge and probably should move HQ back to its old digs.

a reply to: thebozeian

They had a FOD problem with the Dreamliners, too, along with falsifying records. Rumour was Qatar rejected several on delivery, and made them re-inspect all of them before they'd accept them.

Not a Boeing-hater. We're stronger with a strong Boeing. But personal experience collaborating with Boeing was that it was a #show. And it seems like every major project has a string of problems right now. There's an institutional problem that needs solving.

The first flight certified engine was delivered to Boeing the 18th. They expect the aircraft to be powered up by mid November and fly in January. First delivery now is set for early 2021.

Initial reports were wrong. The door that came out was a passenger door, but it was unrelated to the failure. The failure initiated at the keel and ripped up the fuselage causing the passenger door above where it occurred to fail and detach. Boeing will most likely not have to retest however. The failure occurred at 99% of maximum load. They have enough data to accurately show that any redesign will reinforce the structure enough.



www.seattletimes.com...

a reply to: thebozeian
A 747 variant that never went to production.

a reply to: Zaphod58
99% of the redundancy number or the working number..??
Off memory redundancy is 250% of working stress needed..

a reply to: Blackfinger
Ultimate load is 150% of design maximum load. This aircraft test failed at around 148% of max load, so therefore about 99% of the ultimate load test goal.

a reply to: Blackfinger

At the time of failure the wings were at 28 feet, the cabin was at 10 psi, and they had both the forward and aft fuselage bent down with thousands of tons of weight to bend it. Since it was so close, all they will have to do is model the changes made to strengthen the fuselage, they won't have to retest it.

a reply to: Zaphod58
It will be interesting to see photos of a high blow test if or when they perform it on the 777X. Its scary enough standing outside of one when you go to max dif and see the door and pax windows bulge, let alone add another 5-7 PSIG on top!

a reply to: thebozeian

They might not do it now with this one letting go. They've probably got enough data to model it. I hope they do though. That and the wing bend are my favorite tests.

Noone thought it would be a passenger door because those are larger than the hole they fit in. That's a nasty rip in the fuselage. Fun times for Boeing.

Various sources are saying Thursday at 10am for first flight.

First flight postponed. They're looking at Friday, but the weather isn't great until late next week.

The webcast is scheduled to start at about 0920 PST.

www.boeing.com...

Winds out of limits all day. Boeing will announce the next attempt after looking through the data and the aircraft.

Saturday at 10am for the next attempt.