It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Alan Turing did not beak the Enigma Code

page: 1
15
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:08 AM
link   
The mythology of Allied Superiority holds that one man's genius gave the Allies a view into the plans of the German High Command. This is how they knew that the Germans believed D-DAY would occur in Flanders. It's how they knew that the German's had no effective radar of their own. Etc.& etc.

The problem is, you can find ENIGMA emulator software online. And there are several fora that publish dispatches that were supposedly decrypted by Turing's "bomb" computer.

The problem is, if you actually go through the ENIGMA-encrypted dispatches using his algorithm, you cannot isolate the sensible solutions from about 4-16 million non-sense 'solutions' to the text. Basically, the argument is that the ENIGMA apparatus advances one setting every time an input key is pressed. This means that if there is a doubled letter, two letters in a row, that you know it DOES NOT represent doubled letters in the original plain text. Because if you JJ or QQ in the encryption, is CANNOT be SS or LL in the original---the advancement of one of the code wheels would make that impossible. And while German has many more doubled consonants than English, the Germans rarely included the second letter when encoding a text.

To make a short story long, the British had no way to Isolate a single solution from several millions of solutions, of which probably several thousand would "look" enough like a believable dispatch that the decoders could not be sure which was the REAL answer.

So why this lie?

To cover up an embarrassing truth.

The truth is, the Brits had no clue what the initial Enigma-box settings were, except when Their traitor in the German High Command would set one for them. More on that later.

The fact is British intel didn't come from a genius cracking the Ultra-code. It came from a traitor in Hitler's office. And all the stories of Partisans being aided by British spies behind enemy lines are simply that---adventure stories.

The traitor was Wilhelm Canaris, and the whole top tier of the Abwehr, the German Military Intelligence Agency.

They only controlled certain parts of Nazi intel, and so the Allies only had information from the Army and Luftwaffe. The German Navy made private changes to it's own machines (using up to 7 rotors, rewiring the plug board, and elaborate initial setting procedures). Canaris had been an admiral in the Navy before heading military intelligence, and was known to be an anti-nazi. For this reason, the Kriegsmarine (navy) refused to follow the ENIGMA rulebook laid down by Abwehr.

Canaris ran the Abwehr until after D-Day, when it became obvious to Hitler's staff that the allied invasion of France could not have succeeded so well unless the Abwehr was helping the allies behind the scenes. It was Canaris who used the initial codes as HITLER and TOMMIX (tom mix, an American Cartoon character), to tip off the Allies that he could control the codes of the 2 branches of the military, and that the intel coming from Bletchley park could be counted on.

Canaris was arrested by the SS in July after D-Day, and the German's reverses ceased. The German army began putting up the stiffest resistance of the whole war, and the battle of the bulge, a desperate Gamble by Hitler very nearly succeeded.

The fact that Canaris was arrested and executing for spying as the regime was crumbling should be a red flag that he really had served the Brits all along.


So why does any of this matter? Why did the Allies not even tell their own people about the "breaking of the Ultra code" until 1980, and the 40 years after the war started?

Because, it would beg the question. If the head of German military intelligence could sell out his own people, and make his own separate peace with the Allies..... then, what's to keep OUR intel agencies from betraying their own government???

I believe the truth is that both MI6 and the US CIA have both betrayed their executive leaders and their own populaces, in order to carry out their own foreign policy issues, that were not in UK or US interests.

The brits in the US revolution hoped that forcing an enemy general (Benedict Arnold) to defect, would bring cheers to the secret service. Instead, many people sympathized with Washington and the continental congress.

IF Germany could be betrayed by its own spymasters, then what about us. Are WE being betrayed, by foreign intel agents?


More on that later.

all the best.




posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:24 AM
link   
Cool story 👍🏻🇬🇧

Yes, there are traitors.
edit on 6-9-2019 by FinallyAwake because: Half asleep



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:53 AM
link   
I thought the code was figured out when the Brits got an Enigma machine and the wheels from a U boat whose scuttling charge failed..or they disarmed it?



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 01:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: vonclod
I thought the code was figured out when the Brits got an Enigma machine and the wheels from a U boat whose scuttling charge failed..or they disarmed it?


i remember that as being some of the reasons aswell. another big one i remember hearing about was the fact that the germans ended every message with "heil hitler" so cracking that simple bit of every msg opened up the door to decrypt the rest at a faster rate.

i find this post very interesting though because i also remember that they could only crack the older enigma machines with less spools in them. so i wouldnt be surprised at all if they were being fed intel from a spy which also helped them out.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 01:24 AM
link   
Just because my cryptic crossword book tells me the answers in the back doesn't mean I can't work out the clues for myself.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 01:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: vonclod
I thought the code was figured out when the Brits got an Enigma machine and the wheels from a U boat whose scuttling charge failed..or they disarmed it?


i remember that as being some of the reasons aswell. another big one i remember hearing about was the fact that the germans ended every message with "heil hitler" so cracking that simple bit of every msg opened up the door to decrypt the rest at a faster rate.

i find this post very interesting though because i also remember that they could only crack the older enigma machines with less spools in them. so i wouldnt be surprised at all if they were being fed intel from a spy which also helped them out.


Makes sense, I'm sure there were spies.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 02:54 AM
link   
There was a lot of laxity when it came to using the machines as a lot of the time keys would be set to certain values to save time and distribution of the settings was itself a difficult task so quite often if you could break either the first or last 3 wheels you could tell the others so if it went HIT for the first three then LER was probably the second grouping.

Theres rumours that the Russians used enigma machines until the mid 60's and the machines from the park were moved and kept running to help decrypt Russian comms until better solid state electronics could do the work a lot quicker and simpler.

Having spies being able to provide code books or individual keys and other intel would make the job of the codebreaking team a lot easier as if you know a message is about a high ranking commanders movements then you'll know quicker if its legit as you'll have some sort of confirmation from other sources.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 05:24 AM
link   
a reply to: Graysen

The battle of the bulge was doomed from the beginning and Hilary Clinton was a traitor who nearly became president
As for the code, meh, blood and sweat grease the gears of war, ask the Ruskies



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 05:29 AM
link   
a reply to: vonclod

When the first three letters of that message key were LON, it does not take Einstein to work out the other three letters were DON does it ?



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 05:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: vonclod
I thought the code was figured out when the Brits got an Enigma machine and the wheels from a U boat whose scuttling charge failed..or they disarmed it?


Not according to Hollywood in the film U 571....




posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 09:46 AM
link   
Wow! another thread about a subject the poster didn't take the effort to edumakate himself with....



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 10:20 AM
link   
a reply to: Graysen
Technically no one broke the Enigma code. Firstly Turing was part of a team that developed "the Bombe" a basic computer that gave them an insight to enigma. The workings of an Enigma were already known before the war. Polish cryptographers had worked that out.
The British already had an enigma machine from a German spy trawler off Iceland a good year before they got the break from the submarine.
By the way, the man responsible for the saving of the equipment from the submarine was a naval rating called Colin Grazier, a man from Tamworth Staffordshire.
The break from the submarine were not so much the machine but the operational code book for first setting the machine which gave them the toe in for all naval messages. The Canaris story is just a flight of fancy.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: crayzeed

Correct!

And if you add the story of U-505 it gets more interesting...



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Graysen

Pretty sure that the Allies never declared "superiority" over the Germans or anyone else. That was the Nazis who declared superiority over the world, the reason they felt compelled to rule globally. Mr. Turing's contributions to the war effort involved his intellect and a whole team of intellectuals composed of cryptoanyalyst who were able to use a number of techniques that speeded efforts to crack the Nazis coded messages. The team included Italians and a number of other nationalities.

And if the story of Canaris is true, history as written from the Allies perspectives, the Victor's, then he should he referred to as a hero and not a traitor. The only way he could seen as a traitor to the Nazis is if one were sympathetic to the Nazis. Alan Turing played a large part in deciphering the codes as I am sure many spies aided in the cause as well, as it's often the case in wars. Mr. Turing was without doubt an early genius when it comes to mechanical and now digital machines, often considered the father of modern artificial intelligence.
edit on 9/6/2019 by DJMSN because: additions



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 12:04 PM
link   
recorded history is at best 50% factual.



posted on Sep, 6 2019 @ 09:51 PM
link   
The official story claims is that the British had broken the enigma code by November of 1940. But if this were true, why weren't the British able to stop Rommel in North Africa, when Rommel relied on ENIGMA machine-issued orders to his regimental commanders?

And the British weren't able to warn the Americans of what German submariner's called "the second happy time", operation Paukenshlag/drumbeat. The losses of war material en route to the UK were crippling, and the US Navy was slow to deal with the losses of shipping to German U-boats. Certainly if they had intel from ENIGMA texts, the Brits would have shared them with the Yanks. But didn't seem to.

Meanwhile, every German spy ring in the US was shut down and the members arrested; every last one of them. Even though there has never been a claim that any of the spies were mentioned in Enigma dispatches. So the Allies did have great success against German operations not mentioned in coded messages (The US based Duquesne spy ring, 33 convictions; Operation Pastorius, overseen by Canaris), but no such sweeping success against German operations of which they could supposedly read the Enigma texts (Rommel, the Kriegsmarine).



posted on Sep, 7 2019 @ 04:50 AM
link   
a reply to: Graysen

Sound travels 4.3 times faster in water than air.

Submarines were considered stealth technology by the Germans so its no surprise they had a secure phone that hut 6 could not intercept.

Tommy Flowers was credited with Colossus, one of the pioneer parallel computer human intelligence hybrids.



posted on Sep, 7 2019 @ 12:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: Graysen
The official story claims is that the British had broken the enigma code by November of 1940. But if this were true, why weren't the British able to stop Rommel in North Africa, when Rommel relied on ENIGMA machine-issued orders to his regimental commanders?

And the British weren't able to warn the Americans of what German submariner's called "the second happy time", operation Paukenshlag/drumbeat. The losses of war material en route to the UK were crippling, and the US Navy was slow to deal with the losses of shipping to German U-boats. Certainly if they had intel from ENIGMA texts, the Brits would have shared them with the Yanks. But didn't seem to.




You are failing to grasp that having such information is one thing. Using it is another. Forces have to be in place and in sufficient strength.

This was highlight with Ultra and Rommel' shipping convoys. If the forces weren't in place then they couldn't attack them despite knowing the routes and timings.


In the first half of 1941 and 1942 the Brits had the information but could not attack the convoys because they lacked the necessary ships and aircraft.


Ultra Intelligence and Rommel Convoys


Radio Failings The Germans were also listening in on British radio signals. It was the undoing of some of the earliest British offensives. Pushed by Churchill into attacking before they were ready, the British advanced against Rommel and the Germans. Listening in on the signals between British tanks, the Germans discovered their opponents had almost no grasp of communications security. They found out about British plans and used the information to gain victory. Rommel Gets Tricky When he went on the offensive, Rommel turned the issue of signals intelligence around. By putting out false radio signals, he deceived the British about the location of a convoy of tanks. It allowed him to gain the element of surprise. It was a case in which the British could have known better but failed to connect the dots of different intelligence sources.


Link


However, the code-breakers at Bletchley Park had a constant battle to keep their information current. German changes to the naval Enigma code at the beginning of 1942 led to a rise in Allied sinkings, as the flow of Ultra intelligence temporarily ceased. This problem was compounded by the fact that although the USA had entered the war, it did not immediately put into place some protective measures - such as introducing convoys, and 'blacking out' coastal towns. A handful of U-boats operating on the North American and Caribbean seaboards area in the first half of 1942 accounted for nearly 500 Allied ships. The period of this campaign, called Operation Drumbeat, was the second 'happy time' for the German submariners.


BBC Link



posted on Sep, 7 2019 @ 05:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Graysen
You must realise Rommel would have been using the army Enigma which was totally different than the navy Enigma.



posted on Sep, 7 2019 @ 05:13 PM
link   
I can't remember what it was called, but there was a special unit who's job was to make it look like enigma information that got acted on was obtained by other means. A sort of double, double bluff.

And one of the cribs Turing used in setting the bombes, was the frequent occurrence of the phrase Heil Hitler that ended so many messages and reduced the number of possible combinations exponentially.



new topics




 
15
<<   2 >>

log in

join