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For Those Against Trump, Win or Lose

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posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 07:04 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I know a politician changing his or her mind based on what voters think is an entirely novel concept. Maybe think about it a little. Maybe give up on the petty and useless tantrums. Maybe just try to become a supporter and change the face of politics by advocating for progressive policy. Trump has proven himself subject to the will of his voter base. Imagine a compromise of political ideology. It's never been possible in modern presidential elections and you have the first chance to make it happen.



I've been saying this very thing for ages.

Biggest missed opportunity I've witnessed in my lifetime.



Just so I can wrap my head around this ...

You believe trump is doing more than just saying what it is you want to hear but he is actually doing what you want him to do ?

Which leads me to my next question what exactly has changed since he has been president?


I noticed you didn't ask me even though I'm the one who said it and another member just agreed. It's very amusing to me how so many on the left try to avoid responding to me directly. I guess after all the spanking a number of people have very sore bottoms. The cat lady won't respond to me at all anymore and Mr. Mississippi street fight ignores me too. Funny how all the people who accuse Trump of slinging BS don't like when I talk about the BS they happen to be slinging.

If you have a question or comment about what I said feel free to ask me directly. You never know. Maybe you'll end up with a nickname too.




posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.


As I understand it, he's undoing Nasa's climate change budget, he's allowing developers to build on lands which were supposed to be set aside for national parks, and he's trying to allow drilling in the Arctic. All of which are efforts to boost himself or someone else, economically. As I've said many times, I don't dislike Trump. I have no problem with him being President. I have problems with him claiming the high road in our face(s) then going the lowroad while our back(s) are turned. He's getting things done but I just worry that we'll suffer for it later because of his way of doing those things.


The Arctic is, well, the Arctic. It's barren. We're not talking about rainforests here... which if you care are being burned down right now. The budget for NASA, which is a space agency, should be going to space exploration. I have a degree in environmental science and I think carbon as a climate issue is absolute BS. When somebody can explain to me how carbon is worse than methane with a cogent scientific argument I would LOVE to listen. A bunch of idiots telling me fairy tales about it isn't going to convince me.

A couple years ago people on ATS that told me how bad carbon is asked me what I thought would happen. I told them that plants would start growing faster and packing on more matter. They laughed at me... then we found out it's true, because it's BIOLOGY. Science works in very predictable ways. No matter how many stupid models you make science is just going to keep happening. I said start using more wood products. They laugh. People are stupid, don't emulate them.


Yes, the rainforests are burning....... there is also more flooding globally. Globally, the Earth continues to break heat records. Something isn't right. Carbon does effect the environment. I'm not a scientist so I can't explain all of the reasons why but I know that it traps heat; heat which leads to global warming. Warming=more evaporation and that=more rain. Warmer oceans mean more powerful storms/hurricanes/ tornadoes.

I have heard that Methane is worse than Carbon, however. Trump won't even acknowledge the warming environment. Why? Sure, there will be more plant growth but those plants will be less nutritious as I understand.


Plants will be less nutritious? As you understand it? I would be very reluctant to use the word understand along with that whole statement.

Here you go Democrats... this is the lesson you've managed to teach your base. Plants will be less nutritious. I've heard some real zingers and this one takes the cake.

Trump is now removing the nutrients from your f-ing plants. Is there no limit to the horrors Trump is delivering upon us? Stealing our plant nutrients? What a monster.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.


As I understand it, he's undoing Nasa's climate change budget, he's allowing developers to build on lands which were supposed to be set aside for national parks, and he's trying to allow drilling in the Arctic. All of which are efforts to boost himself or someone else, economically. As I've said many times, I don't dislike Trump. I have no problem with him being President. I have problems with him claiming the high road in our face(s) then going the lowroad while our back(s) are turned. He's getting things done but I just worry that we'll suffer for it later because of his way of doing those things.


The Arctic is, well, the Arctic. It's barren. We're not talking about rainforests here... which if you care are being burned down right now. The budget for NASA, which is a space agency, should be going to space exploration. I have a degree in environmental science and I think carbon as a climate issue is absolute BS. When somebody can explain to me how carbon is worse than methane with a cogent scientific argument I would LOVE to listen. A bunch of idiots telling me fairy tales about it isn't going to convince me.

A couple years ago people on ATS that told me how bad carbon is asked me what I thought would happen. I told them that plants would start growing faster and packing on more matter. They laughed at me... then we found out it's true, because it's BIOLOGY. Science works in very predictable ways. No matter how many stupid models you make science is just going to keep happening. I said start using more wood products. They laugh. People are stupid, don't emulate them.


Yes, the rainforests are burning....... there is also more flooding globally. Globally, the Earth continues to break heat records. Something isn't right. Carbon does effect the environment. I'm not a scientist so I can't explain all of the reasons why but I know that it traps heat; heat which leads to global warming. Warming=more evaporation and that=more rain. Warmer oceans mean more powerful storms/hurricanes/ tornadoes.

I have heard that Methane is worse than Carbon, however. Trump won't even acknowledge the warming environment. Why? Sure, there will be more plant growth but those plants will be less nutritious as I understand.


Plants will be less nutritious? As you understand it? I would be very reluctant to use the word understand along with that whole statement.

Here you go Democrats... this is the lesson you've managed to teach your base. Plants will be less nutritious. I've heard some real zingers and this one takes the cake.

Trump is now removing the nutrients from your f-ing plants. Is there no limit to the horrors Trump is delivering upon us? Stealing our plant nutrients? What a monster.


There are published scientific papers about it:

This isn't a political issue for me and I don't blame Trump for the warming. However, I do question his reasons in denying it.



The latest paper on the topic, published earlier this year in Science Advances, found that concentrations of essential nutrients decreased in 18 strains of rice after being exposed to increased carbon dioxide levels in an experiment. The study was the first to show that B vitamins like riboflavin, which helps your body break down food to make energy, and folate, which is important for fetal development, dropped by as much as 30 percent.


Here's a link from Scientific American
blogs.scientificamerican.com...

Here's another link for NPR
www.npr.org...

Here's National Geographic
www.nationalgeographic.com...



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I focus on policy, not personality. I'll always go with the candidate who is in most agreement with me on policy issues.

An analogy I like is;

You have your choice of surgeons. One is really nice but will kill you, the other is a complete dick and save your life.

Which one do you choose?



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I think anyone who understands government's purpose would agree, but it seems many people get really worked up if Congress isn't passing a thousand bills a session.

Remember back in 2016 when the Dems were whining about the "do-nothing Congress" and using that to whip up votes to take back Congress so they can "get things done?"

It seems, like you suggested, most of what they get done is only making things worse but many think that means Congress is doing their job and are all too happy to keep voting for the same politicians.


And you're welcome for my resonable response.






posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Actually good post! s&f, didn't vote in 2016 but as I see the blatant corruption in our Government & Lamestream media also what POTUS has done for the economy (yes I believe trade should be fair & balanced) I will vote in 2020.

edit on 4-9-2019 by manuelram16 because: sp



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

Yeah because human caused climate change is a bunch of #.

Jaden

I'm for protecting the environment, stop corporate chemical dumping, etc. Anything to do with co2 is horse crap .



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: lostbook

Yeah because human caused climate change is a bunch of #.

Jaden

I'm for protecting the environment, stop corporate chemical dumping, etc. Anything to do with co2 is horse crap .



My last point was to show that there is some publications concerning how excessive C02 affects crops. Is it something to look at.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe


Plants will be less nutritious? As you understand it? I would be very reluctant to use the word understand along with that whole statement.

Here you go Democrats... this is the lesson you've managed to teach your base. Plants will be less nutritious. I've heard some real zingers and this one takes the cake.


Ahem.


Climate change is hitting us where it counts: the stomach — not to mention the forests, plants and animals, a new United Nations scientific report finds. Human-caused climate change is already making food more expensive, scarcer and even less nutritious.



Scientists had long thought one of the few benefits of higher levels of carbon dioxide, the major heat-trapping gas, was that it made plants grow more and the world greener, Rosenzweig said. But numerous studies show that the high levels of carbon dioxide reduce protein and nutrients in many crops.


CBS



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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I always thought that plants do better with more CO2 and warmer climates.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: SammyB0476
I always thought that plants do better with more CO2 and warmer climates.


Nope



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

That's a very interesting and thought provoking OP! Thanks.

I am a fiscal a fiscal conservative as well. I was, at one time, something of a limited social progressive but I've given up on all that. Thinking through your OP, I can literally not think of one social progressive idea I could get behind. Maybe you could suggest one.

I see two real problems with social progressive ideas. First, they always seem to comprise an element that costs me something. I'm done paying and every one I've been forced to pay for has turned out to be a broken idea in terms of its execution.

The bigger, second reason is that from a "social" standpoint, it seems to me too late. I don't see this as a unified society in any shape or form. In fact, from where I live, it seems to be more breaking down every day. It will take only one major stress to rip the social fabric entirely asunder and you end up with a "Lord of the Flies" situation much like was seen after the break up of Yugoslavia.

Another and final point.........its looking ever less likely clear to me that Trump will win a second term. Why would he lose? The economy is great and unemployment at record lows. It appears to me however that he's losing support of "right-leaning" suburban females and the next election will, as usual, be all about turnout.

Thanks, S&F



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: shanjuran

What war has he started?? go ahead, I'll wait.

dynasty...? What dynasty? Oh, you mean his kids?? So? Can Chelsea Clinton run for office?? Amy Carter? Reagans kids? Other Bush kids??

The answer is yes, they can. Am I required to vote for 'em? Nope. Nor are you.

So...found that war yet. It's been over two years now...surely he'll have started one by now??



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: SammyB0476
I always thought that plants do better with more CO2 and warmer climates.


Nope



Bummer, normally people with your vast knowledge give us a few statements, facts, links etc.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: manuelram16

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: SammyB0476
I always thought that plants do better with more CO2 and warmer climates.


Nope



Bummer, normally people with your vast knowledge give us a few statements, facts, links etc.


Sorry to have upset you. Just want to be to the point. In several of the articles/ papers I've read, studies show that too much Co2 has the opposite effect than the normal amount of Co2 and plants lose nutrients rather than gain nutrients. I posted links to the articles in this thread.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 04:09 PM
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always surprises me when people go trump didnt do X.... burn trump but they are totally quiet on congress being bought and sold and typically doing nothing beyond getting more power and getting filthy rich.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I know a politician changing his or her mind based on what voters think is an entirely novel concept. Maybe think about it a little. Maybe give up on the petty and useless tantrums. Maybe just try to become a supporter and change the face of politics by advocating for progressive policy. Trump has proven himself subject to the will of his voter base. Imagine a compromise of political ideology. It's never been possible in modern presidential elections and you have the first chance to make it happen.



I've been saying this very thing for ages.

Biggest missed opportunity I've witnessed in my lifetime.



Just so I can wrap my head around this ...

You believe trump is doing more than just saying what it is you want to hear but he is actually doing what you want him to do ?

Which leads me to my next question what exactly has changed since he has been president?


I noticed you didn't ask me even though I'm the one who said it and another member just agreed. It's very amusing to me how so many on the left try to avoid responding to me directly. I guess after all the spanking a number of people have very sore bottoms. The cat lady won't respond to me at all anymore and Mr. Mississippi street fight ignores me too. Funny how all the people who accuse Trump of slinging BS don't like when I talk about the BS they happen to be slinging.

If you have a question or comment about what I said feel free to ask me directly. You never know. Maybe you'll end up with a nickname too.




I asked that member because i was interested to know why he thought things he were changing for the better as he generally is quite articulate and I believe that member to be reasonabley intelligent .

Feel free though to answer the question if you like, im all ears.

As far as coming up with a new nickname for me goes, if it gives you some sense of achievement or ego boost you should do it.

edit on 4-9-2019 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Check your PM's.




posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 07:04 PM
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Also I would vote for Charlie manson if he had a halfway solid plan for the US economy and bringing jobs back.



posted on Sep, 5 2019 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari



I didn't vote for Trump last time......... I'll vote for him next time because......
I'm going to have to vote for the party that isn't currently crazy.


I think this statement sums up why Trump will win 2020







 
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