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For Those Against Trump, Win or Lose

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+52 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 07:44 PM
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I haven't started a thread about Trump for 3 years. It was several months before the election even happened. I'm not terribly prolific at any rate. I've noticed, probably much to the delight of many here, that I've also posted less and less in threads about Trump. To be honest I'm just tired. It's the same exact back and forth on every thread about everything Trump does.

The absurd number of dire predictions about him have been proven wrong. Time and time and time again we've seen that the sky was not falling. Some people even disappeared for a while after their months and years of unfounded accusations went up in a wisp of smoke. I remember back before Mueller failed to do anything other than entrap a few people. He prosecuted people after clear violations of legal precedent. There is no deep state though. High profile investigations. People threatened by very the powerful do not constitute the influence of a deep state action against them. Aside from the ethical dilemma that arises from threatening the family of suspects we have just pure sleaziness.

Then the whole failure happened. Then we saw how there were active efforts to lie, conspire, and upend the normal process of law. We were introduced to the two-tier justice system with nary a peep from those who demanded law and order. They demanded impeachment for grievous violations of various laws that every politician has been getting away with for decades.

After all this it's still going on. He doesn't know about hurricanes. He didn't visit Puerto Rico right after the storm. He threw paper towels to the crowd some other time. He gets two scoops, which according to my wife probably would have been the most damning of his actions. She likes her ice cream.

I don't speak for all the people who voted for him. I know that many of them have been as disappointed as I was at some of the things he's seemed to support. Unlike the endless rhetoric about Cult45 and Trumphumpers and whatever the hell else you believe it's just not true. I think a large number of supporters have been critical. It's been a long time since I was young enough for fables, but I believe this is becoming an even more cautionary tale than the boy who cried wolf or chicken little.

Everything he does elicits an unreasonably alarmist response. Don't be at all surprised if your legitimate complaints are ignored. Call it a cult or make up whatever names you wish. When you chicken little about the sky falling all day every day eventually people stop listening. When the wolf is eating you nobody is going to come running. Yes, I know in the fable it is the sheep that are eaten and not the boy. Make no mistake in this story it is you that are the sheep.

You can talk about how he says dumb things. I don't care. When he takes stupid policy positions and then changes his mind I consider it a good thing. He can make mistakes and stick his foot in his mouth every morning, afternoon, and evening. If he comes to his senses before he signs the EO or the law into effect then I'm delighted. Politicians have been lying and subsequently denying they lied by following through for so long that I find it refreshing. No more Friday afternoon press releases about the latest screw up. It's all right there on Twitter.

When he leaves office in 2024 the political landscape will have changed. It will have changed in a way I approve of. Less inauthentic sanitized sound clips. For 8 years under Obama we had the press pissing down our leg and telling us it was raining. Fed policy almost guaranteed an eventual collapse like every other president before him. All of them just hoped that the house of cards would stay up long enough to get them through 2 terms. Then it wasn't their fault. If we can gain concessions from China on trade it may remediate some of the impact. Maybe. So throw your barbs about the impact on farmers (who by growing their homogenous crops are destroying the planet which you like to bitch about so much and who have been getting subsidies for decades. Did you know that most of them are now big corporate farms that are losing on the tariffs? Of course you did, but TRUMP. I don't post much cupcakes, but I am very tuned in. Blow your smoke up another a@#).

So, to save you time, keep in mind some of us are thinking about a much bigger picture than a couple stupid comments or Tweets. If you really, really, really actually cared you would be advocating policy you support rather than getting a poopy diaper over every time he makes a comment. All that energy might make a difference. If you'd shut up and stop having a tantrum long enough you might find that Trump will actually change his mind if enough people show interest.

I know a politician changing his or her mind based on what voters think is an entirely novel concept. Maybe think about it a little. Maybe give up on the petty and useless tantrums. Maybe just try to become a supporter and change the face of politics by advocating for progressive policy. Trump has proven himself subject to the will of his voter base. Imagine a compromise of political ideology. It's never been possible in modern presidential elections and you have the first chance to make it happen.

This may all seem a little insulting and I won't deny it actually is. I find the behavior a lot like a physiological response. The way you've been behaving hasn't seemed really convincing for a group they says they have the moral authority to tell others what to think. I know supporters have said some things that were completely on par with what you have said. I think we could have a real discussion but I do suspect, like everything else, this will degenerate into tired little petty jabs. So here we are in the mud-pit. I don't know how closely I'll follow this thread as I've said most of what I want to say, but if you make childish comments expect a childish response. I'm good at it. I cut with great precision. Sometimes they don't even get deleted. I can think of a few who may not post here, but to be honest I'd like to hear more from people who have maybe warmed up to him and are open to the idea of advocating for some progressive policy positions. Don't expect it, but hope for it. I'm very much a social progressive as much as I am a fiscal conservative.



edit on 9/3/19 by Ksihkehe because: typo

edit on 9/3/19 by Ksihkehe because: So many typo corrections. Thank god I'm not the leader of the free world.

edit on 9/3/19 by Ksihkehe because: ANOTHER typo, next thing you know I will be a social and political pariah.



+31 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Actually, I was impressed with your post because it mirrors a lot of how I feel.

I didn't vote for Trump last time.

On a personal level, I think he's an asshat.

But BUT... he gets results that I like.

So I'll vote for him next time because of 3 things.

1./ He gets results that I like.

2./ I am so sick and F###ing tired of being insulted, called a cult member, a Trumptard, a racist, a whatever else that if he was actually setting the world on fire I'd probably vote for him anyways just out of spite.

3./ Of the two options (Republican or Democrat) I'm going to have to vote for the party that isn't currently crazy.

S&F and thank you so much for posting again.

Perhaps do it more often.




posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Good post mate, I didn't vote for him and probably wont vote for him in 2020 but its nothing specifically about him its just I swore to never vote for an R or a D again since both parties are complicit in the issues we are facing.


If he ran on a third party I would probably vote for him in 2020.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 09:01 PM
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Well written post. I have no problems with Trump as president, however I think he's a terrible human being. I didn't vote for him because he's claimed the high road while belittling others and pointing out their deficiencies when he has just as many deficiencies if not more. Yes, he's given the US a booming economy but it's at the expense of the environment. Sure other countries are not keeping with environmental pacts and laying waste to the environment but why should we join them; especially when we, the US, are one of the few countries curbing greenhouse emissions...?

All of that said, he is a big wake up call to the establishment and they don't know what to do with him. Trump is a wild-card with the emphasis on "wild." I think he's meant to bring the apocalypse; a revelation.



"Apocalypse" (ἀποκάλυψις) is a Greek word meaning "revelation", "an unveiling or unfolding of things not previously known and which could not be known apart from the unveiling"


I think the Space Force is a part of this revelation. Will watch to see how things unfold.


+3 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I didn't vote for Trump; I also didn't vote for Hillary.
I didn't vote for Trump for several reasons.
I think he's childish and impulsive but the main reason was - I genuinely thought Clinton would win and so my not voting for Trump wouldn't matter in the grand scheme. I miscalculated that.

At this point, I will be voting for Trump in 2020 mostly because right now it doesn't appear there is a likely candidate on the Democrat side who wouldn't be a complete disaster, and I think this time my vote for Trump might just be needed to keep out a crazy from the other side.

Trump's Presidency hasn't really done much to cause me concern. I happen to be one of those voters who prefers my politicians to do very little. I don't need to be governed and coddled and taken care of by the government. If anything I'm more wary of a Pence Presidency more than anything I think Trump will ever do. Why the left is so keen to move him up by removing Trump I have no idea...

As for those suffering from TDS - they make me laugh. I'm thinking election night 2020 is going to be spectacular. These people having tantrums because they have never before been denied who they voted for. They will survive. The country will survive. Trump is not the end.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: Identified

To be honest I think most people actually want their politicians to do as little as possible. They only seem to make things worse. No changes are better than bad changes. Thank you for a reasonable response.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

People expect too much from politicians especially from their leaders when they are only human with the same human weaknesses as everyone else. Trump is primarily concerned with himself and his own and he will send the USA to war with the rest of the world if that is what it takes to build his dynasty. That is the simple truth. It is what should be of concern to everyone.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.


As I understand it, he's undoing Nasa's climate change budget, he's allowing developers to build on lands which were supposed to be set aside for national parks, and he's trying to allow drilling in the Arctic. All of which are efforts to boost himself or someone else, economically. As I've said many times, I don't dislike Trump. I have no problem with him being President. I have problems with him claiming the high road in our face(s) then going the lowroad while our back(s) are turned. He's getting things done but I just worry that we'll suffer for it later because of his way of doing those things.


+8 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:43 PM
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Trump isn’t perfect.

But the alternative...Is friggin bat sh!t crazy.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: shanjuran

WAR, WWIII, ALARM ALARM.

Jesus, did you bother to actually read?

You will likely be banned within a week or so. Like all the others that just post this nonsense with no basis in reality.

How do you feel about your life and your behavior? Does it give you even a little pause to be such a pawn, just a cog... hell not even a cog, just a tooth in the cog.

Every week you all sign up in the scores. Give it a rest.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 10:56 PM
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originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.


As I understand it, he's undoing Nasa's climate change budget, he's allowing developers to build on lands which were supposed to be set aside for national parks, and he's trying to allow drilling in the Arctic. All of which are efforts to boost himself or someone else, economically. As I've said many times, I don't dislike Trump. I have no problem with him being President. I have problems with him claiming the high road in our face(s) then going the lowroad while our back(s) are turned. He's getting things done but I just worry that we'll suffer for it later because of his way of doing those things.


The Arctic is, well, the Arctic. It's barren. We're not talking about rainforests here... which if you care are being burned down right now. The budget for NASA, which is a space agency, should be going to space exploration. I have a degree in environmental science and I think carbon as a climate issue is absolute BS. When somebody can explain to me how carbon is worse than methane with a cogent scientific argument I would LOVE to listen. A bunch of idiots telling me fairy tales about it isn't going to convince me.

A couple years ago people on ATS that told me how bad carbon is asked me what I thought would happen. I told them that plants would start growing faster and packing on more matter. They laughed at me... then we found out it's true, because it's BIOLOGY. Science works in very predictable ways. No matter how many stupid models you make science is just going to keep happening. I said start using more wood products. They laugh. People are stupid, don't emulate them.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Those of you that did not have a posted response please check your messages. I am trying to respond to all. Some of what I say will be off topic and not further the actual conversation, I still very much mean it.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: shanjuran

WAR, WWIII, ALARM ALARM.

Jesus, did you bother to actually read?

You will likely be banned within a week or so. Like all the others that just post this nonsense with no basis in reality.

How do you feel about your life and your behavior? Does it give you even a little pause to be such a pawn, just a cog... hell not even a cog, just a tooth in the cog.

Every week you all sign up in the scores. Give it a rest.


I'm not scaremongering just saying how it is. You sure have a short fuse.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 11:39 PM
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originally posted by: shanjuran

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: shanjuran

WAR, WWIII, ALARM ALARM.

Jesus, did you bother to actually read?

You will likely be banned within a week or so. Like all the others that just post this nonsense with no basis in reality.

How do you feel about your life and your behavior? Does it give you even a little pause to be such a pawn, just a cog... hell not even a cog, just a tooth in the cog.

Every week you all sign up in the scores. Give it a rest.


I'm not scaremongering just saying how it is. You sure have a short fuse.


LOL.

You didn't even light my fuse. Telling the truth is not an unreasonable response.

I noticed you did manage to avoid the question about the environment by trying to gaslight me though.

LOL.

Not me. I don't like gaslights. When you can explain the environmental damage we'll have a talk like grown ups. Have you ever had one of those?



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 12:15 AM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
Trump isn’t perfect.

But the alternative...Is friggin bat sh!t crazy.



That's messed up, there literally isn't anyone running that is a better option than trump.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 01:45 AM
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Sometimes its best to let the dog hunt . A really useful kind is not just a flushing dog, but a treeing dog too. Trump is an arrogant megalomaniacal hunting dog. They dont always make great house pets, but they do a particular job really well.

Im still waiting for term limits. If he manages that then all of the grief is so worth it. Life doesnt end just with me or my contentment. Id love future generations of mine to actually taste a little of that dream we hang on to. If that means pissing a few people off and letting the dog dig up the flowerbed .. then so be it.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 02:46 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I know a politician changing his or her mind based on what voters think is an entirely novel concept. Maybe think about it a little. Maybe give up on the petty and useless tantrums. Maybe just try to become a supporter and change the face of politics by advocating for progressive policy. Trump has proven himself subject to the will of his voter base. Imagine a compromise of political ideology. It's never been possible in modern presidential elections and you have the first chance to make it happen.



I've been saying this very thing for ages.

Biggest missed opportunity I've witnessed in my lifetime.



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 03:41 AM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I know a politician changing his or her mind based on what voters think is an entirely novel concept. Maybe think about it a little. Maybe give up on the petty and useless tantrums. Maybe just try to become a supporter and change the face of politics by advocating for progressive policy. Trump has proven himself subject to the will of his voter base. Imagine a compromise of political ideology. It's never been possible in modern presidential elections and you have the first chance to make it happen.



I've been saying this very thing for ages.

Biggest missed opportunity I've witnessed in my lifetime.



Just so I can wrap my head around this ...

You believe trump is doing more than just saying what it is you want to hear but he is actually doing what you want him to do ?

Which leads me to my next question what exactly has changed since he has been president?



posted on Sep, 4 2019 @ 07:00 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: lostbook

Perhaps you can tell me exactly what he has done to boost the economy at the expense of the environment? Keep in mind we have exceeded the carbon emission goals, in spite of how useless they are, since he was president.

I was not kidding when I say I keep up on things. My education is in environmental science. I've kept up on it in spite of my career being slightly untraditional.

What has he actually done? When in the past century have we not been destroying the natural environment? When did the first world start exceeding the environmental destruction of the planet more than the third world?

Did it start to matter when people decided they didn't like Trump?

You are correct though. I don't believe he is a paragon of human excellence. He's the right tool for the right job. We have a nail and we need a hammer.


As I understand it, he's undoing Nasa's climate change budget, he's allowing developers to build on lands which were supposed to be set aside for national parks, and he's trying to allow drilling in the Arctic. All of which are efforts to boost himself or someone else, economically. As I've said many times, I don't dislike Trump. I have no problem with him being President. I have problems with him claiming the high road in our face(s) then going the lowroad while our back(s) are turned. He's getting things done but I just worry that we'll suffer for it later because of his way of doing those things.


The Arctic is, well, the Arctic. It's barren. We're not talking about rainforests here... which if you care are being burned down right now. The budget for NASA, which is a space agency, should be going to space exploration. I have a degree in environmental science and I think carbon as a climate issue is absolute BS. When somebody can explain to me how carbon is worse than methane with a cogent scientific argument I would LOVE to listen. A bunch of idiots telling me fairy tales about it isn't going to convince me.

A couple years ago people on ATS that told me how bad carbon is asked me what I thought would happen. I told them that plants would start growing faster and packing on more matter. They laughed at me... then we found out it's true, because it's BIOLOGY. Science works in very predictable ways. No matter how many stupid models you make science is just going to keep happening. I said start using more wood products. They laugh. People are stupid, don't emulate them.


Yes, the rainforests are burning....... there is also more flooding globally. Globally, the Earth continues to break heat records. Something isn't right. Carbon does effect the environment. I'm not a scientist so I can't explain all of the reasons why but I know that it traps heat; heat which leads to global warming. Warming=more evaporation and that=more rain. Warmer oceans mean more powerful storms/hurricanes/ tornadoes.

I have heard that Methane is worse than Carbon, however. Trump won't even acknowledge the warming environment. Why? Sure, there will be more plant growth but those plants will be less nutritious as I understand.



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