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Breixt: Another week of crazy political drama

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posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Bluntone22




I was under the impression it meant British exit from the European union.



That is exactly what it means, within that however are quite a few complexities.


There are no complexities. It's really very simple.
We voted to leave.


Yeah no complexities other than but not limited to

Economic impact of no deal.

Irish border.

Status of UK citizens living in EU.

Lack capacity to deal with checks at border.

Potential shortage of essential goods (including medicine).





They are not complexities in the People's decision to leave.
They are administrative challenges (some real, some not, some opportunities) for the Post Brexit Govt.

The decision to leave by the people is very clear and very simple.



Yes it was a very simple vote.

Doesn't make it a simple process and certainly not one without consequences.



The process of leaving is also very simple. What IS complex is the effort to subvert the will of the people. Very complex indeed. That's a different thing, though.
The administrative challenges are great and the commercial challenges are significant.


And blindly charging on without workable solutions to the complexities is not really a viable option either.


Nice rhetoric, but I don't see anyone blindly charging out without workable solutions. Regardless that has nothing to do with the process of leaving the EU.
You're confusing leaving itself with the challenges of a post Brexit Briatin.


No I am stating leaving without a solution to many of the fundamental challenges is grossly irresponsible.

Hoping for the best doesnt really cut it.


That's not the same argument. But if you have moved on, my response to your new argument would be to ask you to list the fundamental challenges that we have that we have no solution for.


Is the same argument and have already done so.




posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


This is actually a fair point, how can the same group of people who were unable to agree upon a deal for leaving can then be expected to deal with the fallout form that failure.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.

edit on 3/9/2019 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


This is actually a fair point, how can the same group of people who were unable to agree upon a deal for leaving can then be expected to deal with the fallout form that failure.


By everyone in the country simultaneously closing their eyes, putting their fingers in their ears and singing kumbaya.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Bluntone22




I was under the impression it meant British exit from the European union.



That is exactly what it means, within that however are quite a few complexities.


There are no complexities. It's really very simple.
We voted to leave.


Yeah no complexities other than but not limited to

Economic impact of no deal.

Irish border.

Status of UK citizens living in EU.

Lack capacity to deal with checks at border.

Potential shortage of essential goods (including medicine).





They are not complexities in the People's decision to leave.
They are administrative challenges (some real, some not, some opportunities) for the Post Brexit Govt.

The decision to leave by the people is very clear and very simple.



Yes it was a very simple vote.

Doesn't make it a simple process and certainly not one without consequences.



The process of leaving is also very simple. What IS complex is the effort to subvert the will of the people. Very complex indeed. That's a different thing, though.
The administrative challenges are great and the commercial challenges are significant.


And blindly charging on without workable solutions to the complexities is not really a viable option either.


Nice rhetoric, but I don't see anyone blindly charging out without workable solutions. Regardless that has nothing to do with the process of leaving the EU.
You're confusing leaving itself with the challenges of a post Brexit Briatin.


No I am stating leaving without a solution to many of the fundamental challenges is grossly irresponsible.

Hoping for the best doesnt really cut it.


That's not the same argument. But if you have moved on, my response to your new argument would be to ask you to list the fundamental challenges that we have that we have no solution for.


Is the same argument and have already done so.



No, you haven't. You made some emotive and accusatory claims but not backed any up.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Bluntone22




I was under the impression it meant British exit from the European union.



That is exactly what it means, within that however are quite a few complexities.



I understand that you cant just flip a switch and be out. Nobody is really suggesting that.
But it sure looks like the British government isnt even trying.

After the EU appointed their leadership recently I would think the British people would be getting nervous. Those "leaders" would be better described as losers..



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluntone22




I understand that you cant just flip a switch and be out. Nobody is really suggesting that.
But it sure looks like the British government isnt even trying.



That is actually quite literally what the government are dong, they are trying to force through a "no-deal" which would see the UK just taken right out out of the EU on the 31st of October with no transition period, just right out of there and thats it. If the government get their way they will flip that switch and we will be out. Parliament however does not want this and are trying to block the government doing this.
edit on 3-9-2019 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:20 PM
link   
a reply to: UKTruth

I'm what most people would probably consider a traditional Labour supporter simply because historically they've always been the party most compatible with my personal beliefs.
That is no longer true; I could never vote for a party that Jeremy Corbyn leads and Labour has betrayed and completely dismissed its traditional core vote.
And many in Labour are trying to make it the party of Remain.

I am a passionate supporter of Brexit - I like the idea of a Free Trade Association and recognise that now more than ever we have many shared interests, but I want no part of political union and also believe the EU to be amoral, corrupt and undemocratic.

With that in mind I'm in line with some of the more anti-EU Tory MP's.

Yet I'm strongly opposed to the majority of The Conservative Party's principles and policies.

Who do I vote for in a General Election?

Say I vote Tory and we get Brexit; what happens post-Brexit?
I then have to endure a Tory party in government for five more years along with all their policies that I vehemently disagree with whilst also watching the likely dissolution of the UK.

That's not a prospect I can vote for.....literally caught between a rock and a hard place.


edit on 3/9/19 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:21 PM
link   
Way back when boris was merely an buffoon Mp in 2016 rather than a buffoon PM

he stated that Britain would


“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. “British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down.



Mr Johnson said: “I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be.



Boris Johnson has said the UK there will be “still have access to the single market”, despite Britain’s historic vote to leave the EU.


Boris Johnson: UK will 'still have access to single market’ despite Brexit

Peter piper is playing his fiddle again, yet people still belive he is competent


In a no-deal scenario, the UK would immediately leave the European Union (EU) with no agreement about the "divorce" process. Overnight, the UK would leave the single market and customs union - arrangements designed to help trade between EU members by eliminating checks and tariffs (taxes on imports).


What is 'no-deal Brexit'?

and despite earlier accusations of me lying about being a Brexit voter (of which I am) I say again, I did vote leave on the provisio these idiots could negotiate something to be proud of, lets not forget we already missed our first leave date, I would never change my leave vote but I also do not want a no deal worse case scenario of, tough snip Great British public we just gonna make your savings shrink and life get harder than the Austerity measures already happening, will it effect the MP's of westminster and their above average salaries (with all the c̶r̶i̶m̶i̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶n̶e̶f̶i̶t̶s̶ salary top ups when cheating the public with false expense claims and 2nd house BS)

i wanted out of the EU because i hate expense cheats who are cheating the very people they are being paid to represent, once we leave the EU can we make westminster leave the UK, please



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Bluntone22




I was under the impression it meant British exit from the European union.



That is exactly what it means, within that however are quite a few complexities.


There are no complexities. It's really very simple.
We voted to leave.


Yeah no complexities other than but not limited to

Economic impact of no deal.

Irish border.

Status of UK citizens living in EU.

Lack capacity to deal with checks at border.

Potential shortage of essential goods (including medicine).





They are not complexities in the People's decision to leave.
They are administrative challenges (some real, some not, some opportunities) for the Post Brexit Govt.

The decision to leave by the people is very clear and very simple.



Yes it was a very simple vote.

Doesn't make it a simple process and certainly not one without consequences.



The process of leaving is also very simple. What IS complex is the effort to subvert the will of the people. Very complex indeed. That's a different thing, though.
The administrative challenges are great and the commercial challenges are significant.


And blindly charging on without workable solutions to the complexities is not really a viable option either.


Nice rhetoric, but I don't see anyone blindly charging out without workable solutions. Regardless that has nothing to do with the process of leaving the EU.
You're confusing leaving itself with the challenges of a post Brexit Briatin.


No I am stating leaving without a solution to many of the fundamental challenges is grossly irresponsible.

Hoping for the best doesnt really cut it.


That's not the same argument. But if you have moved on, my response to your new argument would be to ask you to list the fundamental challenges that we have that we have no solution for.


Is the same argument and have already done so.



No, you haven't. You made some emotive and accusatory claims but not backed any up.


Just because you don't want accept them doesn't make them emotive or accusatory. The are legitimate concerns identified in official government planning.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.


The well being and economy of the UK very much is parliaments job.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


This is actually a fair point, how can the same group of people who were unable to agree upon a deal for leaving can then be expected to deal with the fallout form that failure.


Ahem, the esteemed member of the house Mr ScepticScot was responding to my suggestion

PRAISE ME, lol

May i just say whatever happens we must not EVER, EVER let idiot politicians seperate the nation, it will always be WE THE PEOPLE Vs them, they despise us. I really appreciate how in the thread we have some (shame not all) Brits who voted differently being civil, keep it that way and we will never be defeated

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: UKTruth

I'm what most people would probably consider a traditional Labour supporter simply because historically they've always been the party most compatible with my personal beliefs.
That is no longer true; I could never vote for a party that Jeremy Corbyn leads and Labour has betrayed and completely dismissed its traditional core vote.
And many in Labour are trying to make it the party of Remain.

I am a passionate supporter of Brexit - I like the idea of a Free Trade Association and recognise that now more than ever we have many shared interests, but I want no part of political union and also believe the EU to be amoral, corrupt and undemocratic.

With that in mind I'm in line with some of the more anti-EU Tory MP's.

Yet I'm strongly opposed to the majority of The Conservative Party's principles and policies.

Who do I vote for in a General Election?

Say I vote Tory and we get Brexit; what happens post-Brexit?
I then have to endure a Tory party in government for five more years along with all their policies that I vehemently disagree with whilst also watching the likely dissolution of the UK.

That's not a prospect I can vote for.....literally caught between a rock and a hard place.



Regardless of peoples view on Brexit I think a lot of people are going to be in a similar position to you. I obviously prefer to remain but the thought of Corbyn as PM is frankly terrifying.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 01:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.


The well being and economy of the UK very much is parliaments job.


Parliament
- Check and challenge the work of the Government (scrutiny)
- Make and change laws (legislation)
- Debate the important issues of the day (debating)
- Check and approve Government spending (budget/taxes)

They are not in the business of "resolving all the fallout from a no deal Brexit".

The vast majority of all the preparations, mitigation and implementation of new processes to manage post Brexit Britain is led by the Govt. Most of the people involved in the work will not even be politicians.
Again, you show you don't understand the difference between Parliament and Govt.
The job of running the country falls to the Govt, not Parliament.


edit on 3/9/2019 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 01:38 PM
link   
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



That is actually quite literally what the government are dong, they are trying to force through a "no-deal" which would see the UK just taken right out out of the EU on the 31st of October with no transition period, just right out of there and thats it.


dong indeed....



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 01:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.


The well being and economy of the UK very much is parliaments job.


Parliament
- Check and challenge the work of the Government (scrutiny)
- Make and change laws (legislation)
- Debate the important issues of the day (debating)
- Check and approve Government spending (budget/taxes)

They are not in the business of "resolving all the fallout from a no deal Brexit".

The vast majority of all the preparations, mitigation and implementation of new processes to manage post Brexit Britain is led by the Govt. Most of the people involved in the work will not even be politicians.
Again, you show you don't understand the difference between Parliament and Govt.
The job of running the country falls to the Govt, not Parliament.



Remind me how did government get on with the brexit deal without parliament?

Prime minister is a member of parliament .

Ministers come from parliament.

Powers of government comes from parliament.

Not sure what point you think you are making but if it pleases you to replace with inability of government resolve then feel free as it has absolutely zero impact on the point being made.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 02:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.


The well being and economy of the UK very much is parliaments job.


Parliament
- Check and challenge the work of the Government (scrutiny)
- Make and change laws (legislation)
- Debate the important issues of the day (debating)
- Check and approve Government spending (budget/taxes)

They are not in the business of "resolving all the fallout from a no deal Brexit".

The vast majority of all the preparations, mitigation and implementation of new processes to manage post Brexit Britain is led by the Govt. Most of the people involved in the work will not even be politicians.
Again, you show you don't understand the difference between Parliament and Govt.
The job of running the country falls to the Govt, not Parliament.



Remind me how did government get on with the brexit deal without parliament?

Prime minister is a member of parliament .

Ministers come from parliament.

Powers of government comes from parliament.

Not sure what point you think you are making but if it pleases you to replace with inability of government resolve then feel free as it has absolutely zero impact on the point being made.



The point I am correctly making is that the vast majority of all activity related to managing Post Brexit Britain will be handled by the Govt (and the Private sector), not Parliament.

Further - you have no idea what plans the Govt have made. I know this because Parliament have not even seen the Govt's plans.

You're original statement here:

Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...
..

...is riddled with inaccuracies and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Govt and Parliament.
edit on 3/9/2019 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 02:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: ScepticScot

3 years we have been waiting for a sign of competency from the MPs in westminster, to get a deal to be proud of, to be left with a clusterfunk instead, what happens when this bunch of idiots from all sides have really got to put some work in on November 1st



Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...


It's not Parliaments job to resolve all the fallout from a no deal Brexit.


The well being and economy of the UK very much is parliaments job.


Parliament
- Check and challenge the work of the Government (scrutiny)
- Make and change laws (legislation)
- Debate the important issues of the day (debating)
- Check and approve Government spending (budget/taxes)

They are not in the business of "resolving all the fallout from a no deal Brexit".

The vast majority of all the preparations, mitigation and implementation of new processes to manage post Brexit Britain is led by the Govt. Most of the people involved in the work will not even be politicians.
Again, you show you don't understand the difference between Parliament and Govt.
The job of running the country falls to the Govt, not Parliament.



Remind me how did government get on with the brexit deal without parliament?

Prime minister is a member of parliament .

Ministers come from parliament.

Powers of government comes from parliament.

Not sure what point you think you are making but if it pleases you to replace with inability of government resolve then feel free as it has absolutely zero impact on the point being made.



The point I am correctly making is that the vast majority of all activity related to managing Post Brexit Britain will be handled by the Govt (and the Private sector), not Parliament.

Further - you have no idea what plans the Govt have made. I know this because Parliament have not even seen the Govt's plans.

You're original statement here:

Apparently the same parliament that hasn't yet worked out an agreeable deal will miraculously be able to resolve all the inevitable fall out from a no deal brexit...
..

...is riddled with inaccuracies and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Govt and Parliament.


You are taking an over literal and out of context interpretation of my post.

Either you know that and your position is so weak you are trying to derail the thread. Or if you don't then maybe this topic, and possibly the internet, isn't the thing for you.

Not interested in playing either way.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 02:59 PM
link   
Sir Nicholas Soames says he will vote against the government tonight, boris therefore faces the uncomfortable prospect of deselecting Winston Churchill’s grandson.
WW2 spirit and all that



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 03:02 PM
link   
a reply to: contextual
Winston himself walked out of the Conservatives and joined the Liberals, so he would understand the process.



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