The Bible - The Outdated Scientific Paper

what's to clear up? a couple may not have strictly been virgin births as you say they came of their father's head, which seems less likely but myths will be myths.

the virgin birth concept was to make something more devine and perhaps less natural and therefore more spiritual. myths about a person being born of a virgin, living his life to spread the word of god, teaching/preaching to others, helping to cure others are not christianity's invention. there were people who lived their lives almost identically to jesus yet came 100s or perhaps thousands of years before. what do you need cleared up? there are plenty of myths that show christianity merely stole them from other religions. they wrote those myths down as prophecies as many other religions did, then a certain character called jesus comes along and teaches primarily jewish beliefs. the writers of the four gospels then set about turning jesus in to a messiah and put him slap bang in the middle of christianity. im not sure if anything really needs to be cleared up, other than perhaps christians admiting their messiah story is copied from every other religion...

Originally posted by mrwupy

I've had a little bug in my mind about this. I've heard that in the Bible it says that a mans life is but a blink in the eye of God.

It says it somewhat like that, and means a persons life on earth is minuscule, compared to the eternity that is set before us. It also refers to the fact that God had no beginning and will have no end. He has always been, that's why one of the names referring to Him is I AM. If we could see the "longness" of eternity from His perspective and the shortness of this life that we live right now, we would grasp how important it is to make every moment( I mean this literally) count for eternity.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
what's to clear up? a couple may not have strictly been virgin births as you say they came of their father's head, which seems less likely but myths will be myths.

the virgin birth concept was to make something more devine and perhaps less natural and therefore more spiritual. myths about a person being born of a virgin, living his life to spread the word of god, teaching/preaching to others, helping to cure others are not christianity's invention. there were people who lived their lives almost identically to jesus yet came 100s or perhaps thousands of years before. what do you need cleared up? there are plenty of myths that show christianity merely stole them from other religions. they wrote those myths down as prophecies as many other religions did, then a certain character called jesus comes along and teaches primarily jewish beliefs. the writers of the four gospels then set about turning jesus in to a messiah and put him slap bang in the middle of christianity. im not sure if anything really needs to be cleared up, other than perhaps christians admiting their messiah story is copied from every other religion...

You seem very bitter about Christianity. However, you are taking it out on the wrong person. I have no opinion one way or the other about whether Christianity has copied from other religions, or the originality of virgin birth. I was just clearing up something that you mentioned about Buddha that I did not think was true. As well as the Hercules/Osiris thing.
That is the problem with not checking up facts. If they are found to be wrong, it greatly weakens your argument, even if you happened to be right to begin with.

Heheh...thanks Saint. But don't be too sure about it. Next thing you know I might be questioning something YOU posted

Originally posted by babloyi
Heheh...thanks Saint. But don't be too sure about it. Next thing you know I might be questioning something YOU posted

I should hope so. If I post questionable material, I'd hope for no less from a friend.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by saint4God]

i am very bitter about christianity and other organised religion. although i don't really care about those two people that came out of a head, or how buddha led his life. i care about the 5 or 6 other myths that show virgin birth, of which there are probably more in history. it's not a coincidence that jesus christ lived his life so alike other mythical messiahs or devine people.

you can find sites completly ripping in to the bible, killing it there and then, however, you can also find sites that claim so much devinity that it's laughable. it's a no win situation really, of which im not sure why i bother so much to prove it wrong to these ignorant, gullable christians.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by shaunybaby]

the speed of light...that's scientific. the fact that we can see stars billions of light years away means it is FACT that the earth and universe is billions of years old. i heard one argument that the speed of light could have been faster before...yeah why not just chuck the speed of sound in there aswell and f**k up everything, yet not just science but normal logical human thinking. creationists have also tried to explain with terms such as 'light on its way' or using mathematical/scientifical anomylies that some how the light has gotten here faster. on this one FACT alone, you cannot trust a young earth creation theory. that's just one example of the terrible 'outdated scientific paper' you call the devinely inspired word of god bible.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

...im not sure why i bother so much to prove it wrong to these ignorant, gullable christians.

That is a very interesting point indeed. How does one "prove" an "opinion" exactly? Perhaps you would enlighten us?

Additionally, perhaps the real question is why you feel compelled to attempt to "prove" your opinion in the first place? Especially to those you seem to feel are ignorant and gullible.

What's REALLY behind your contempt?

Originally posted by Partyof1That is a very interesting point indeed. How does one "prove" an "opinion" exactly? Perhaps you would enlighten us?

If I may speak for Shauny. It is not that s/he has to prove anything, it is to ensure that the idiocy of the other side is not all that is heard. Knowledge is best gained by weighing differing points of view. And just as every religion in the world deems theirs to be the only truth, it becomes important for those religions to be challenged on their bias or philosophy by each other, or non-denominations.

What's REALLY behind your contempt?

Why do you wish to label it as contempt? Just because s/he does not agree with whatever philosophy does not make it contempt. The flat earth believers made stronger charges than you, yet it was they who were in contempt.

[edit on 3/16/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

well in some aspects i am against christianity from looking at evidence for things like the stars and light speed, noah's ark, the four gospels being writen by people that never met jesus, the bible being composed and changed in too many different languages hence probably edited aswell, the contradition and intolerance i also find within the bible.

i find all of that to be the truth of the bible because unless you read the bible with lots of faith and a true christian then that is what you will see. so my oppinion from what i have read of the bible and researched about the bible is that it cannot be taken to be 'god-inspired'. this is only my oppinion from reading the bible...it's not my fault i found those things in there before i had faith.

the only parts i can't explain are when a christian friend of mine tells me she can speak in tongue, which i think is when the holy spirit or something uses you and speaks you words... she also says she has the holy spirit inside of her and every now and then she will get pictures in her mind... she claims to have a personal relationship with jesus and that he helps her through her life... i can't even begin to explain those let alone deny those, that's the part of christianity that no one understands unless you experience them. proving the bible wrong or inacurate is one thing...but trying to prove someone is a liar or perhaps they want to believe so much that their minds just make them think all this spiritual stuff.

she told me that because i couldnt prove her wrong that it meant she was right. she's right that i cant prove her wrong. then again i said lets take david copperfield and say that i cant prove he's wrong or how he walked through the wall of china...therefore he really did. she also said 'i never lie, why would i lie about something like this'. well it may not be her, it could just be her mind that's taken over and she really does believe all of this. there are millions, or thousands that believe elvis is still alive...are they liars? or do they just have faith that he's still alive in the same way christians and other religious people have faith that there is something out there.

the only doubt i have in my mind for there being more to life, hence a matrix scenario or an after-life is that fact that where did all the elements come from that make up the universe. if you think about how much rock and other elements are needed to make our galaxy...well what about a billion galaxies or even more. that's the only thing i can't get my head round. even if that's how the universe started with just loads of rocks floating around then that's still really hard to comprehend...i know what you religious people will say...god made it all.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by shaunybaby]

Hey shauny, hope I can help with some additional perspective.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the only parts i can't explain are when a christian friend of mine tells me she can speak in tongue, which i think is when the holy spirit or something uses you and speaks you words...

I never really understood this. Originally when it happened in the Bible, it was because nobody could understand each other in a meeting because everyone spoke a different native language. Speaking in tongues allowed them to speak the same language in order to understand each other. God is the God of clarity, not confusion. Why then would he have one of His people stand up and speak in a way nobody around can understand? I don't see any purpose or reasoning behind it.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
she also says she has the holy spirit inside of her and every now and then she will get pictures in her mind...

I don't know. It hasn't happened to me but I cannot deny someone else's experience.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
she claims to have a personal relationship with jesus and that he helps her through her life...

This every Christian should be having. At the very least, reading the Word and understanding how to apply the right and good thing in daily life. One gets answers from prayer too, but not like a dialogue with a friend over tea, it's more like "Aha! I get what I'm supposed to do now" moments. It is a little out of the ordinary, but it works.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i can't even begin to explain those let alone deny those, that's the part of christianity that no one understands unless you experience them.

True dat.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
proving the bible wrong or inacurate is one thing...but trying to prove someone is a liar or perhaps they want to believe so much that their minds just make them think all this spiritual stuff.

she told me that because i couldnt prove her wrong that it meant she was right.

Um...looks like flawed logic to me. It's like thinking about doing something you know is wrong and saying "God if this is wrong, physically stop me". He doesn't work like that. If you know it's already wrong, He really has nothing more to say. We're not puppets/robots. The Bible teaches humility, I think if anyone goes around thinking they're right all the time they're missing the point and a valuable growth experiences.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
she's right that i cant prove her wrong. then again i said lets take david copperfield and say that i cant prove he's wrong or how he walked through the wall of china...therefore he really did.

*nods* I see what you mean.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
she also said 'i never lie, why would i lie about something like this'. well it may not be her, it could just be her mind that's taken over and she really does believe all of this. there are millions, or thousands that believe elvis is still alive...are they liars? or do they just have faith that he's still alive in the same way christians and other religious people have faith that there is something out there.

Neither you nor I can say whether she is lying about what she believes. That's her business with God. Our only responsibility to find our own proofs.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the only doubt i have in my mind for there being more to life, hence a matrix scenario or an after-life is that fact that where did all the elements come from that make up the universe. if you think about how much rock and other elements are needed to make our galaxy...well what about a billion galaxies or even more. that's the only thing i can't get my head round. even if that's how the universe started with just loads of rocks floating around then that's still really hard to comprehend...i know what you religious people will say...god made it all.

You know us well but that's no excuse to give up on learning. For me I went into science because I wanted to know how. It gave me more of a drive to learn about God in another way. Needless to say, the more I studied, the more questions I had than answers. Complexity compounds as a person learns, reinforcing as you've said here.

I totally appreciate the candidness in exploring the topic.

As always, available to listen, for questions, discussion and advice if wanted.

Pray, train, study.

God bless.

Just What part of the Bible came from God? The part about killing all of the men women and children of the land God gave moses or the part about having slaves or the part about the punishments of.... What part?

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by CyberKat

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by e 2 e k 1 a 7
The bible is no more then an outdated scientific paper.

What's scientific about it?

If it is scientific, doesn't that mean it should be taught in public schools as well?

[edit on 11-3-2005 by saint4God]

Now, that's just silly, defensive thinking. I didn't start the thread, but I think that what the author (e 2 k 1 a 7) meant, was that it was scientific back in the days when it was first written, when they really didn't have much knowledge of science. At least, not anywhere close to what advances have been made in that area now.

Do you think that subjects in school should be taught based on what was known, or thought to be known some 2000+ years ago? Or should we base what our kids are taught on more modern findings.

How do you feel about teaching kids today that the earth is flat? It was believed to be flat, many years ago, you know.

I believe Saint4God was being facetious. We are constantly told that the "story" of creation has no place in the education system because it is not scientific. It is difficult to understand your response.

The Bible was not and is not a scientific journal.

The Bible is the written Word of God. It begins with the Old Testament and the Jewish beliefs and prophecies about the coming of the Messiah.

The New Testament is about Jesus as related by his Apostles and their followers. It has been written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. That does not mean that the Holy Spirit dictated what they were to say. It means that these men, in their own words, told what had been either seen with their own eyes or passed down by reliable traditions.

Then the Church, again with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit chose the books that were to become the Bible. When it was complete it was written that nothing else could be added.

So, you see, nothing scientific is involved. Perhaps you should read it for yourself.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by freddieb]

[edit on 17-3-2005 by freddieb]

you've got to stop looking at it from that angle. i dont think the person who started this thread was saying it's a scientific paper that's out of date. most likely more that it's a paper that's out of date. an old way of thinking that's out of date. an old way of teaching that's out of date. also the bible was taught as a science back in the day when it was the only science. the bible and people who believe in it make the mistake of trying to use modern science to prove they're right. i'm almost sure that no other religion does that. do hindus, muslims etc, do they ever use modern science to try and justify their spiritual beliefs? no im sure they don't. yet why does christianity feel the need to do so. all the time i hear phrases like biblical science, creation science. one example in the bible is that god made us from dirt, and science has found 90% of what makes us can be found in dirt. although 98% of our building materials we have in common with apes. trying to use modern science to prove the bible really is christianities downfall and last ditched attempt to salvage anything from their beliefs.

how can christians deny that dinosaurs lived for over 200 million years of our planets life. we still have prehistoric dinosaurs alive today...crocodiles, sharks etc. we have a fossil collection that show our planet life to go even further back to even more simple life. we have proof that shows there to be a change, an evolutionary change in our species. all you need to do is look at 4 or 5 skulls of the species that we evolved from to see the changes. yet some religion people still want to claim the world is flat and the world is only about 6000 years old...what happened to the ice age?? that's ignorance at it's best. stupid unintelligent thinking that will hopefully die out because i thought when columbus sailed around the world that was proof enough, and the vast life on this planet could not have flourished in 6000 years. man i'm so tired of organised religion...