The United Kingdom doesn’t exist.

originally posted by: alldaylong

The issue is that May was stupid/arrogant enough to believe parliament would just accept whatever she came back with

a reply to: ScepticScot

The EU won't renegotiate.

We leave without a deal because of their intransigence.

As the saying goes " Never Accept The First Offer "

If the UK wants the EU to change the deal they need to come up with something new

The EU isn't suddenly just going to give us terms that have already been found unacceptable.

originally posted by: alldaylong

The issue is that May was stupid/arrogant enough to believe parliament would just accept whatever she came back with

a reply to: ScepticScot

The EU won't renegotiate.

We leave without a deal because of their intransigence.

As the saying goes " Never Accept The First Offer "

They have spent three years listening the UK agree to disagree on what it wants. The EU has not been intransigent, the UK has - and arrogant too. Hell, the Irish Government started to make contingency plans to deal with a Leave vote when the campaign for the referendum started. The UK Civil Service asked Cameron if they should do the same and the arrogant PoS said no, because obviously he was going to win.
After the Leave vote happened the Leave campaign exploded into a million fragments. Why? Because they could not decide on just what 'Leave' meant and what kind Brexit they wanted. Is that clear enough? May pressed the Article 50 button of her own volition, even though her Government did not know what kind of Brexit it wanted!
We have spent the past three years witnessing the Conservative Party, not to mention a significant chunk of the Labour Party (Corbyn has always been pro-Brexit) go collectively raving mad. That's not the fault of the EU. They've been negotiating based on whatever new fresh piece of delusion the PM of the time has presented it with.

I just want to point out that the people complaining about a lack of democracy are doing so to try to remain in a patently undemocratic organization.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
I just want to point out that the people complaining about a lack of democracy are doing so to try to remain in a patently undemocratic organization.

Westminster?

Wow, I sympathize with you guys. We are living in our own governing tug of war Hell here as well (US) and this just brings it home about how broad sweeping the overall agenda seems to be. Is there any part of the world that is not majorly f^%$#ed right now?

a reply to: Starcrossd

Iceland seems to be doing OK. But they put criminal bankers in jail there, so ...

originally posted by: alldaylong

The issue is that May was stupid/arrogant enough to believe parliament would just accept whatever she came back with

a reply to: ScepticScot

The EU won't renegotiate.

We leave without a deal because of their intransigence.

As the saying goes " Never Accept The First Offer "

No they have offered a deal now we can debate the merits of the deal but that deal was the outcome of negotiations between two groups. The EU has to act in its best interests and have offered a deal that has a clause in it (the backstop) to protect their economic interests.

Its not that the EU won't negotiate they have negotiated with us for over two years, its simply that after these negotiations based on the current stance of the British government that this is the best deal they believe they can offer that does not compromise the best interests of the rest of the EU.

I don't get how you can't understand this, we decided to leave the EU, the EU have to do what is in their best interests and that includes a hard boarder between the UK and EU states in the event that no deal is agreed upon.

Its crap, I totally agree with you on that, this is a really #ty situation to be in but let's not pretend this is all the EU's fault, we decided to leave them.

a reply to: Forensick

If you want democracy lets have some. The UK is made up of nations. Two of which voted to stay within Europe. The simplies thing to do would be England leaves the UK.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Its astounding that Leavers say its undemocratic to ask for a second referendum to settle this issue

Tell you what, leave the EU then get the second vote. If the vote wins to rejoin we will keep redoing it until you lose again, as many times as it takes.

Democratic.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Its astounding that Leavers say its undemocratic to ask for a second referendum to settle this issue

Tell you what, leave the EU then get the second vote. If the vote wins to rejoin we will keep redoing it until you lose again, as many times as it takes.

Democratic.

What baffles me is that some people think thats actually a possibility.

We do that then we don't get the same exclusions we currently get with our membership.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Do you have any idea how many banking houses and financial institutions are entrenched in the city of Old London Town?

Brexit or not hard or soft, plan or otherwise, there is no chance we would ever manage to gaol those nefarious bastards in the same manner Iceland did given the power and monies that they wield over the nation nevermind the rest of the world, as unfortunate as the case may be.

To do so would require a full-blown revolution and this country tearing itself apart at the seams.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Unless Merkel decides to allow unfettered migration through the border!

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The EU has negotiated a deal.

It's up to the UK to accept it or not.

That is not a negotiation ....... That is a fait accompli

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The EU has negotiated a deal.

It's up to the UK to accept it or not.

That is not a negotiation ....... That is a fait accompli

The deal was the result of protracted negotiations with the EU.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Tell you what, leave the EU then get the second vote. If the vote wins to rejoin we will keep redoing it until you lose again, as many times as it takes.

Lol!! It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of the 'remainers' who are

so sure that a second vote would change the outcome.

I very much doubt it.

They say empty vessels make the most noise!! and who's making all the noise?

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Tell you what, leave the EU then get the second vote. If the vote wins to rejoin we will keep redoing it until you lose again, as many times as it takes.

Lol!! It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of the 'remainers' who are

so sure that a second vote would change the outcome.

I very much doubt it.

They say empty vessels make the most noise!! and who's making all the noise?

The certainty rof a change to the outcome seems to be from brexit supporters many of whom seem utterly terrified by the prospect of a second referendum.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The deal was the result of protracted negotiations with the EU.

Your having a laugh........

Theresa May was shunned, ignored, and disrespected every time she went

to Brussels. All she ever came back with was what the EU gave her (remember

she was a remainer) and as such she played the EU game.

Obviously the deal suited the EU not good at all for the UK.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The certainty rof a change to the outcome seems to be from brexit supporters many of whom seem utterly terrified by the prospect of a second referendum.

Not at all

If democracy is to be observed the first result needs to be delivered

before anything else.


As usual its the 'remainers' who are flouting democracy.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

And you completely missed the point of my post.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

The deal was the result of protracted negotiations with the EU.

Your having a laugh........

Theresa May was shunned, ignored, and disrespected every time she went

to Brussels. All she ever came back with was what the EU gave her (remember

she was a remainer) and as such she played the EU game.

Obviously the deal suited the EU not good at all for the UK.

I think you are basing your view on the negotiations too much on tabloid media coverage of May.

The UK had a whole negotiating team and the cream was the end result of months and months detailed negotiations.

The reason it is viewed as a 'bad deal' is because it's worse than our current deal (membership of the EU).

The EU was never going to give The UK a deal.That gave the UK everything it wanted as that was going to be detrimental to the remaining EU members.

And for all Boris Johnson's bluster he still hadn't explained what magic trick he is going to produce to give us a better deal.