The United Kingdom doesn’t exist.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

Again how are doing that?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

Again how are doing that?

Do you not have eyes and ears ?

Crazy to hear today that the Government have refused to rule out ignoring parliament if a bill is passed to block a no-deal.

To be clear that is the Executive taking over the legislative branch of government.

If that happens there will be riots.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

Again how are doing that?

Do you not have eyes and ears ?

Yes but my personal appearance isn't the topic.

You are claiming Remain supporters are commiting sabotage but seem oddly unwilling to explain or give an example to back up your claim.

I myself voted to leave the EU out of opposing ideological views. I simply could not reconcile the EU as it stands against my wish to want to keep Britain sovereign, self-determining, self-controlling. If the vote had gone the other way, I would have had no choice but to accept it. I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have upheld my side of the democratic process and abided by the result.

You see, that is what democracy is all about...abiding to the result, whichever way it goes. Democracy only works when that happens. It works that way because it is the most logical and reasonable process for a collective decision to be made without resorting to violence to settle the issue.

The real stumbling block to referendum results is 'Parliamentary Sovereignty'. Referendums are not legally binding, and only 3 have ever been held throughout Britain's political history; however, there have been numerous referendums at lower levels, all of which remained true to the result. It is considered an electoral imperilment to the sitting party if they go against a referendum result, which is one reason why results tend to be honoured. Also, honouring a referendum result sends out the right signal to the people that democracy is in place, that it is functioning, and is being honoured.

In truth, Remainers are ranting and raving against the result, and by that association, against the democratic process. In theoretical terms, doing so makes them enemies of Britain, because Britain is a democratic country, and an attack upon its democratic process is an attack upon the country itself. Britain fought wars to keep itself that way, and we honour the sacrifice of those who gave their lives to keep us not only democratic, but also self-sovereign and self-determining. Remainers are spitting on their memory. In my eyes, that alone makes them betrayers.

We now need a general election. Take out all the dead wood politicians who voted to remain, and give Johnson a Tory landslide so that he can crack on delivering the 'no-deal' Brexit, which is the best deal. It is the best deal because in political terms it returns full sovereign control back to Parliament. We are not just seeking to save our political sovereignty here, we are, more importantly, seeking to save our country overall, to return it back to the 'English' (note: I do not say 'British') way of life, which has been attacked from all quarters for too long without a real response until the referendum.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

Again how are doing that?

Do you not have eyes and ears ?

Yes but my personal appearance isn't the topic.

You are claiming Remain supporters are commiting sabotage but seem oddly unwilling to explain or give an example to back up your claim.

If you have eyes then you must be able to read.

JEREMY Corbyn has ditched his plans to storm into No10 and take over as PM - and agreed with Remainer MPs to push for a new law to sabotage No Deal instead

www.thesun.co.uk...

Remainers have sabotaged Mrs May's hopes of a Brexit compromise

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Remainers will do anything to stop Brexit, except install Corbyn as PM. Why?

www.theguardian.com...

Plenty more out there.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nigel Farage specifically stated, prior to the referendum, that in event of a narrow remain victory that they would continue to campaign to leave. Apparently remain doing the same is undemocratic...

Campaigning is one thing.

What those who want to remain are doing is trying to sabotage the outcome of the referendum. That is something completely different to campaigning.

Really how are they doing that?

Definition of " Sabotage "

Deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

www.lexico.com...

Yes, the remain camp are trying to sabotage.

Again how are doing that?

Do you not have eyes and ears ?

Yes but my personal appearance isn't the topic.

You are claiming Remain supporters are commiting sabotage but seem oddly unwilling to explain or give an example to back up your claim.

If you have eyes then you must be able to read.

JEREMY Corbyn has ditched his plans to storm into No10 and take over as PM - and agreed with Remainer MPs to push for a new law to sabotage No Deal instead

www.thesun.co.uk...

Remainers have sabotaged Mrs May's hopes of a Brexit compromise

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Remainers will do anything to stop Brexit, except install Corbyn as PM. Why?

www.theguardian.com...

Plenty more out there.

That isn't sabotage that parliament doing its job (for once). We aren't a dictatorship and just as May didn't get to decide that Brexit means her deal without going through parliament then neither does Johnson get to decide that it means what he wants.

If Johnson is convinced his is the only option then should have the balls to face parliament. If he can't then he can arrange a general election and run on a no deal ticket.

It's laughable to make claims about democracy being sabotaged while wanting Johnson to have absolute control just because you agree with him.

If article 50 expired.
We are already out of the EU. That's what people don't realise.

originally posted by: UKWO1Phot
If article 50 expired.
We are already out of the EU. That's what people don't realise.

No we are still in the EU, they passed legislation that legally extended the timeline to the 31st of October through the Cooper-Letwin Bill. You are factually incorrect in this statement.

Can I point out, with weary patience, that a no-deal Brexit means a hard border in Northern Ireland, which would be a breach of the Good Friday Agreement.
I have not heard a single sensible, practical, solution to the Irish border issue from Farage, or BoJo. I wonder why?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Can I point out, with weary patience, that a no-deal Brexit means a hard border in Northern Ireland, which would be a breach of the Good Friday Agreement

The UK will not erect a hard border.

If the Irish Republic do so on the instruction of The EU, it will be they who are wrecking the Good Friday Agreement.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Can I point out, with weary patience, that a no-deal Brexit means a hard border in Northern Ireland, which would be a breach of the Good Friday Agreement

The UK will not erect a hard border.

If the Irish Republic do so on the instruction of The EU, it will be they who are wrecking the Good Friday Agreement.

This though is a perfect example of one of the issues that I feel those who wish to remain just don't get.

The EU is dependent on strong boarders, the block needs to have secure boarders you can't have a open boarder between Ireland and the UK because that undermines the economic security of the EU. It would mean that the UK for example could just import tariff free out of Ireland and this undermines the EU. So the EU have to enforce a hard boarder, they have no real choice. Thats not them breaking the good Friday agreement that's them just doing what they have to do.

There will have to be border checks.

The impact that is going to have could be catastrophic.

We are so utterly #ed thanks to Brexit on so many fronts, I have to wonder in 3 or 4 years will you look back and say it was worth it or will you be blaming the EU for all our woes. This isn't he EU's fault, this is the fault of those who want us to leave the EU with no deal, which has been demonstrated time and time again to have a minority of public support.

You cannot blame the EU for acting in their best interests especially when its the UK who voted to leave.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The EU is dependent on strong boarders, the block needs to have secure boarders you can't have a open boarder between Ireland and the UK because that undermines the economic security of the EU.

As i stated, it will be The EU erecting a border. The consequences are on their heads.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The EU is dependent on strong boarders, the block needs to have secure boarders you can't have a open boarder between Ireland and the UK because that undermines the economic security of the EU.

As i stated, it will be The EU erecting a border. The consequences are on their heads.

No the consequences are on the heads of those dragging us out with no deal.

The EU have no choice they can only act in the best interests of the block and they have to raise this boarder because the UK has voted to leave, its their only option. There is literally nothing else they can do to protect their own interests in the event of a no-deal, not a thing.

Open boarders would totally undermine the economic security of the block, like I said, it would just mean we could do just about everything through the Irish boarder tariff free. That is not an option for the EU it is totally unreasonable to expect them to do that or to blame them for protecting their own interests.

You cannot say "we the UK want to leave the EU" then blame the EU when it all starts to go tits up because of a decision we made.

This is what we're going to have now for years, blaming the EU for everything when it was us the people of the UK who decided to do this. Its our politicians who are preventing a deal, the EU have agreed on it, they have offered it to us on a plate and while it might not be the best deal in the world its better than the chaos thats going to follow a no-deal.

We are a #ed, we have nobody else to blame but ourselves and our own ineffective politicians.

a reply to: alldaylong

The UK will have to erect a hard border, it won't have any choice because we'll be leaving the Customs Union. Theresa May used to mouth inanities about using technology to solve the issue. Sadly it will take years to install and the UK should have started on it in 2016.
Oh and shouting 'The EU will break the Good Friday Agreement!' is just pitiful - and 100% wrong. Leavers cannot ignore reality on this point. If we leave the EU without a deal then Northern Ireland becomes an issue because Ireland is in the Single Market and the Customs Union and we won't be. The UK will have the following options:
A) A hard border, so that customs checks can be put into place. Which would be against the GFA and would also lead to chaos on the border. Have you ever been to the border? There are roads everywhere. You'd need to triple the size of Customs & Excise to man the border properly.
B) The backstop part of May's deal. Which has not been passed, which everyone hates and which is the only deal on the table.
C) BoJo's magic instadeal, which has not been brought to the table because it doesn't exist, even though we have just two months left before the extension runs out and we enter the catastrophe that would be No Deal. BoJo has a reputation for being all mouth and no trousers. I do not expect anything to change here.
D) Ireland leaves the EU too. Nope, this one's delusional, not going to happen.
E) Northern Ireland leaves the Union. Nope the DUP has what our American friends call a hateboner for the Republic.
F) Extend Article 50 yet again. Difficult, the EU is out of patience with us. In addition if BoJo fails to achieve Brexit by October 31 support for the Tories collapses like an old souffle again and Mr Toad's Brexitpartei starts to rise in the polls again, making BoJo's dream of a majority just that - a dream.

Let the delusions and shouting about the above commence. Points for Leaver nonsense.

a reply to: Forensick

When you live in a country where the people don't have free speech or the right to bear arms why would the government actually respect the will of the people?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

The thing is though in the grand scheme of things the Northern Irish boarder is just one of the huge problems we are going to be faced with. Whats going to happen at the ports that going to be a problem, what about the economic impact, how are we going to cope being the only nation using exclusively WTO rules. Whats going to happen when Scotland say "# this we're outta here".

The problems that Brexit represent are massive and I for one don't see what we are getting in return.

I fail to see any benefits of Brexit that are worth all this trouble.