Leopard print apparel for young girls is wrong

a reply to: ketsuko

I completely agree. Woman are trying to get ahead by making some man take responsibility for all things sexual.

Piffle and bull#. I take responsibility for my sexuality. If I don't want you, I make sure not to be in a position where you can use your strength against me. I don't have any more than 1 drink in public. Choosing to be in public, drunk, in a room of predators. What total foolishness. ( yes men are predators and hunters and yes woman are their chosen prey) Recognize the situation that you are dealing with and act appropriately.

Inebriation in public is unwise for both men and woman. Predators are just as likely to want to fight as to be romantic.

That does not mean that you can't step out of your house without an escort (nor should you need one, that is what police are for).

It doesn't mean that you can only dress a certain way. Guys have to accept that when all woman wear tents..then tents all start to look sexy.

I am a firm believer in woman's rights (certainly the right to wear leopard print LOL) but I am also pragmatic. Age and wisdom allows you to recognize the things you cannot change. that includes the nature of men and woman.

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses

originally posted by: Onlyyouknow
You do have to realize that no matter how a lady dresses does not invoke an invitation to be violated.

It sounds like you are trying to educate me right now. Is that correct? I am a dismal communicator if I have given you the impression that I don't know this.

...Basically everything is the woman's fault- no personal responsibility for the man to control his desires.

I try not to live or think that way. I don't think I could say much else about it that wouldn't be some sort of virtue-signalling. I have my own "manlies" I need to work out, sure. I'd rather have man-problems than woman-problems, anyhow. I don't see it as a one-sided issue, but I also think it's a shame that social power and standing has been so one-sided in many cultures. It's bogus and bad.

Since this is your quote I was responding to, i consider my answer appropriate:


originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses

"It's not just pre-teens either though. I routinely see teenage girls in my town wearing utterly ridiculous excuses for jeans. These jeans are skintight rags, slashed from the pockets to the shins! It's like they let tigers process the jeans before selling them to idiot teenage girls. I can't even imagine what it's like to put them on! Your toes would catch on every slash...they must have a short self life.

It's ironic, you know. Five years ago I wouldn't have given a #, but I don't want my little girl to be one of those idiots in their skintight, tiger-clawed, fishnetjeans. It's asking for some kind of trouble. We don't have to play stupid as a society. In a society where men are castigated for their natural sexual drives, we should demand that females reciprocate by recognizing their immense power. Some do."

It is up to the parents to decide what the children wear .
And , basically every other aspect of their life until 18 .
Period.
As they are minors.
That's why I am not giving an answer .
If both you and your wife decided against it , who am I to judge ?

That is what I dont get about today's society.
We have one on this thread that wants to make it a child should make their own decisions .
No.
Just no.

Veteran dad and grandfather.

a reply to: [post=24580

We also have one on this thread who wants boys and girls to have the same opportunities in this world and not be treated in a priviledged manner just because they are male.

When a man decides that neither boys are girls should wear a certain fabric because it objects to it because he thinks its looks slutty, then fair is fair.

when a man decides that only the girl should be restricted, then he needs to think about where the boundaries actually are. Is he being fair to girl? What else is he restricting her on? Maybe the boy gets more freedom to play? to be creative? to make decisions? to have more freedoms? Because fundamentally, if only a girl can be considered slutty, then his saying that only his daughter needs to be restricted and controlled

a reply to: ketsuko

If I could only get more people to understand what you are saying, my job would be so much easier, and my heart would would not be so heavy.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

A person posed a question and you decided to grab your soapbox and, not a step of hesitation, not a stutter, just moan and bitch

Simple question asking for a simple answer, why not just offer up something nice, simple and precise

You are a control freak, you use moaning and bitching to control, sad really

Doesn’t work on me, I don’t need what you are selling, all you can do is try get in my face to control me, just like your post

Happy to break down your post and show you the control freak aspect of it if you like

Otherwise, go save a hippy or something

Well since we are getting down to breaking down quotes:

"Simple questions asking for a simple answer. Why don't you offer up something nice, simple and precise"

Gee looks to me that did in fact ask me for something. Like I said, I give you exactly what you asked for and you are still not happy because "sweetie" didn't pander. I am shocked and amazed.

Ok love calm down you are over reacting

I DID NOT use the word “DONT” I used the word “NOT”
It’s important

But realistically you don’t have to justify yourself with little lies to me
I just questioned your feminist rant, the clothes the kids wear these days is between the parents not me and you.

Scoot sweetie, you are boring me

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh and in case you have any further questions:

I don't usually get called "sweetie".....twice!

And I usually speak my mind whether some man likes it or not. Nobody pays my mortgage but me and I have earned the right. I didn't assume superiority just because of a dick between my legs.

I didn’t and still don’t have any questions for a hysterical gender of whatever sex with or without penis envy

Please and younare welcome to speak your mind, it’s not my business but
If you are going to rant like a banshee, expect blowback

As I said, I didn’t say you were wrong, just questioned your ranting and moaning

Toodles toots, had enough of you and your tantrums

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Onlyyouknow
I am going to tell my age. When I was a teen, it was considered slutty to wear a dress or skirt with a hemline above the knees. When the new style came out with the hemlines moving to mid knee cap, my Dad had a melt down. No daughter of his would ever be caught out in public showing her knees. I couldn't wear pants either, except jeans around the homestead.

I loved my Dad and I made sure he never saw me with my hiked up skirt. Just a little wardrobe adjustment. Wear a belt and a long top. Fold the skirt up over the belt when you got to school and take down before you got home. Looking back, I respected my father and it meant a lot to me that he was concerned enough about me to be involved with what I wore. He thought he was protecting me and my reputation, which was a big thing back then.

I didn't always agree with him and we fought from time to time, but back then it was all about respect, towards your elders and for yourself. He died very young so he didn't get the opportunity to see all the madness that followed, but I knew my Dad well enough that he would not have accepted the rising hemlines without a lot of noise and dissatisfaction.

Whether it is culture or the times, traditionally men where considered the heads of the household and the rest of the family deferred to their will. I never had a problem with that because with all his faults and mistakes, my Dad was a good man.

Times have changed and I will admit that I have greatly benefited from the advances that happened with the move to more equality for women. But for all the gains we have made I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit that I think that we have lost a lot also. I am not so sure that we have made an equal trade. That is just me. I am sure those much younger will not agree.

I am not so young myself, mid 40ish. I am sorry you have lost your Dad, mine is going through a very tough time right now.

I agree that "stars" and media push hyper sexuality 24/7. We have to teach our kids personal responsibility- no one caused you to do anything, you made the choice to ....

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: [post=24580

We also have one on this thread who wants boys and girls to have the same opportunities in this world and not be treated in a priviledged manner just because they are male.

When a man decides that neither boys are girls should wear a certain fabric because it objects to it because he thinks its looks slutty, then fair is fair.

when a man decides that only the girl should be restricted, then he needs to think about where the boundaries actually are. Is he being fair to girl? What else is he restricting her on? Maybe the boy gets more freedom to play? to be creative? to make decisions? to have more freedoms? Because fundamentally, if only a girl can be considered slutty, then his saying that only his daughter needs to be restricted and controlled

First , learn to quote properly on ATS
Is this about boy's vs. girl's rights ?
Or , are you questioning the responsibilities of a parent to make decisions for a child ?
I think the latter.
Which means you assume you know better than any other parent(s).
Which is a very totalitarian point of view within itself.
And wrong.

a reply to: Gothmog

Well I am shocked and amazed once again in this thread.

A man who thinks that its wrong to treat boys and girls equally! What a novel point of view.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Gothmog

Well I am shocked and amazed once again in this thread.

A man who thinks that its wrong to treat boys and girls equally! What a novel point of view.

Who said that ?
I did not .

Denying ignorance
Why ?
It is not pretty , but it has to be done.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Erroneous.

Men are NOT Predators. Feminista's will try and have you believe otherwise.
Men whom seek to rape ARE Predators.

Men whom enjoy a night out with mates and a few drinks looking to score are Hunters (using your words).
Hunters have morals and ethics and will not resort to criminal acts which if perpetrated, should never be allowed to see the light of day again.

For someone who uses the moniker 'TiredofControlFreaks', has anyone (outside of this thread), ever told you that you are very controlling? - Rhetorical question, no need to answer as it was more of a statement.

As a father of two daughters currently, both under the age I'd consider them to be make rational decisions. I am going to side with the OP here. - With a caveat exception that I will only partially agree with you on in part of your post.
A father, even mother, should be weighing in very heavily on what the child should be wearing.
There are perceptions in society and every interaction we have is built around those perceptions and initial judgements.
Take the Leopard print clothing for instance... I would not care if my daughters chose to wear it... around the house.
But I would prevent them from wearing it out.
As another member pointed out already and really bears worth repeating; A parent that does not actually 'input' into the choices of the child, will end up having the child feeling worthless and less respected.
And in the inverse, the child will have less respect for the parent because they will see and learn that the parents "don't care".

I will prevent my preteen and eventual teenage daughters from wearing ANYTHING in public that would portray a sexuality that would provoke Predators.
NOT because it makes them look "slutty", even though it would and I would stop them on that alone... But primarily because it paints a bright neon target on their person for Predators to see.
Police can not and are not every where at every time.
I do not live in a country that allows for ANY kind of personal protection equipment (outside of a loud buzzer) so the protection of my child comes in part of teaching her these dangers are out there.
And the best protection she has, is her clothing... More of it the better.

OP: You are well within your rights to deny these clothing options... You are her father. It doesn't matter if the same thought would apply to a boy.
Like I don't even understand how that was even your goto argument ControlFreak.
How does, "Leopard print has been associated with sluttines" translate into "would it make your son look like a slut"?
It isn't even in the same ballpark as arguments go.
If you want my answer, because you are all about openness, yes, it would make the boy look slutty... Hollyweird has portrayed male gay prostitutes many a time with leopard print tank tops.
Also... Wth did you bring Muslims into this? Again... Completely differently level of argument that you can't apply to Western societies.

/end of rant because I am fairly certain I have lost where I was going with this... However I believe I got across what I aimed to???

a reply to: Nyiah

Thank you for your response. This thread has been an interesting study in connotation. For instance, I said that leopard print is associated with "sluttiness" (though I wish I had chosen different terminology, in hindsight).

You make an interesting point that "sluttiness" has more to do with what body parts are revealed and to what degree. We touched on that earlier in the thread. But I stand by what I said. Leopard print, in and of itself, carries a connotation in the minds of at least some people, myself included.

It has this connotation in my mind because of females I've known in my life, three of which I listed. You seemed perplexed by that but it is a standard technique someone would use when crafting an argument. The fact that I only listed first names is because this is a "general chit chat" and not a "police report". At any rate, the individuals listed were in possession of lingerie, clothing, etc. featuring leopard print designs. Based on those experiences, I assumed leopard print to be emblematic of feminine sexuality and especially promiscuous sexuality. I have NEVER known it to be a standard child's print, especially for boys.

People have often accused me of being boring and weird and all sorts of things. In fact, I am one of those types who sadly doesn't last long in most places like work or school. I worry that there is no place for me in society at all. It doesn't hurt as much as it used to when people like you mock me for my natural inclinations, curiosities, and ideas. So i forgive you for calling me a "boring bastard" and insinuating that I want my daughter to wear a burka. I think you're better than that and I don't really think you're that way on purpose.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Gothmog

Well I am shocked and amazed once again in this thread.

A man who thinks that its wrong to treat boys and girls equally! What a novel point of view.

I would never treat boys and girls the same, they are not equal and it’s a lie of ludicrous proportions to even consider they are the same

What do they teach people these days, what kind of people believe this crap
Boys testosterone girls oestrogen, that doesn’t negate equality but does mean we are different

There's a lot of people in this thread being negative or rude towards OP's opinion despite the fact that it's clear that they're open to suggestions.

OP even asks if their opinion is based on their background.

There's varying levels of acceptablenfor attire. Would it be acceptable if this was about thigh high boots? Definitely not.

Is OP rwromg for viewing leopard print in the same vein? No. That's they're opinion.

This is also why it's incorrect for people to be saying about women being oppressed, or chanting that they're too old fashioned.

They're just looking out for their kid and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially if they're willing to have their opinion changed.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

Dad with 2 daughters here - both below 11.

Here's my opinion. It's not so much the leopard print, etc. It's what our society overall views as 'too much'.

This seems to have stuck a nerve for a few members so I'll make this simple.

As parents, we must protect our kids. That's our primary job. Everything else is secondary. If you don't have kids this may (or perhaps may not) be difficult to understand.

This means protecting them from the more dangerous fringes of society. Sure, I get that there's not a paedophile lurking in every bush. But they exist.

Abductions happen. Opportunistic rapes, happen.

They are rare, but my point is - they happen.

So what's this got to do with leopard print?

It means, I would never put my child (and I buy the clothes) in something that I believe a fringe of society may take to be an open invitation to hurt my child.

This has nothing to do with sexual orientation, sexual freedoms, ideologies etc.

It's about keeping kids safe.

To do otherwise is irresponsible and if you believe allowing a child to wear whatever they want is just as bad. They are regularly bombarded with television adverts that still overtly sexualise perfumes, for crying out loud (I don't want to get into this - it's just an observation and I'm merely making a point).

Instilling them with the basics of social norms from an adult with experience is our duty. Sure, we have our biases - that's just human nature. But those norms are rapidly changing and we as adults also have a responsibility to ensure that our kids are educated in those, too.

When they are older and wiser, then they will start to form their identity, I'm sure when mine get to 13 that rebellious stripe will come, and I welcome it with open arms.

But not when they're 7 years old.

Peace out!

When I was a child, back in the 1970s, I had a faux leopard print coat. I think I must have felt glamorous in it.

As an adult I don't wear animal print clothing because I think it is tacky and/or kitschy.


Sal
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Some things send off signals too.

Show yourself off and you excite. Excite the wrong people in the wrong situations and you have your hands full. If you're lucky, that's all you have is your hands full fending off unwanted advances. Do it in a place where the really wrong kind of person lurks and you trigger a response you may not be able to handle.

As far as the OP goes, the OP is concerned that animal prints are a bad signal universally. I'm more on the fence with it. I've seen them used tastefully, but it's harder to do than with some other things. I don't tend to touch them myself for that reason although I do like them. I think it's very much dependent on the person doing the wearing, the cut of the item they're on, and the outfit ensemble myself.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

leopard print is associated with sluttiness.

This is an old fashioned idea. Its silly.
Sluttiness should be defined by behavior not an animal print.

They can be quite cute. I saw leopard trim on a red coat on a little three year old. I'm sure she wasn't a slut.

I dont want to be rude this is after all your daughter but really dad....
No...

If shes going braless under a sheer shirt then you may have an issue. If she wears short skirts with no panties, you certainly have a problem. But animal prints.... nah....

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Sorry but I loved the fancy underwear when I was a little girl.

When I was very young it was all lace. Then suddenly it became white cotton and the frill was gone.
When I saw those sets even back in the sixties I loved them. And lol the first set was red floral. Wonder what OP makes of the color red on girls.
The sets are pretty not meant for supporting non existant breasts.
Face it... some grown women wear bras and they dont really need them.