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JUST IN: Trump defunds Planned Parenthood

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posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




There is no functional difference.


Of course there is! The cord is cut. The child is independent from it's mother. It's lungs take in their first breath of air. They have achieved personhood!




posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Have they come up with a way for the first trimester fetus to communicate its desires to us that I dont know about?
Or, do you think you should be the one who gets to give the voice to a fetus within a women when you have no idea whatsoever about the the pregnancy or the risks it is posing to the woman involved?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha



Does nature give an egg a say as to whether or not it gets fertilized. Does nature give a fertilized egg a say as to whther or not it can implant in the uterus? Does nature give a developing fetus a say as to its health or whether or not it will ever achieve viability?


Nature is supposed to be allowed to take its course. Now, in the case of serious danger to the mother, incest, or rape, I get it.

Beyond those EXTREMELY rare cases, there are no justifiable ethical grounds to excuse the use of abortion. Convenience to the mother isn't an ethical reason to terminate life.




Does nature give a chicken a choice of whether it gets eaten, or not?

What an unbelievably goulish thing to say.

Nature does what it does. Humans have ethics. Where are yours?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:28 PM
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Have they come up with a way for the first trimester fetus to communicate its desires to us that I dont know about?
a reply to: dawnstar


Do babies have the ability to talk?

What # logic is that?

We're supposed to be caretakers for those who can't speak for themselves, not their executioners.
edit on 8 20 2019 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




how pregnancy should be treated.


Like burning an unmarried pregnant woman alive, or stoning them? Or, forcing a married woman, whose husband suspects she cheated on him, and that that precious life inside of her may not be his, to abort? Or ripping the unborn from the wombs of your enemies' women, and dashing their infants against rocks? Like that?

Or, maybe the tradition of not counting babies in population counts, until they achieve so many months in age?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




Nature is supposed to be allowed to take its course.


No it isn't. If that was the case, rape would be just a another way of nature taking its course.

If we had to let nature take it's course, there would be no doctors.



there are no justifiable ethical grounds to excuse the use of abortion.


Of course there are.
edit on 20-8-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

You must think that I believe we should be doing all of those things. Sorry, not a Muslim. Christianity reformed long ago and so have our ethics and standards.

Do keep up.

Secondly, the bible also speaks of the protection of women during and after pregnancy. About respect for life.

If you're trying to compare the ancient world to our standards today as an argument against ethical applications of abortion, then you've seriously lost the plot.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha




No it isn't. If that was the case, rape would be just a another way of nature taking its course.



I addressed this in the post you're quoting.




Of course there are.


Beyond rape, incent, and physical danger to the mother, what are they?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




Christianity reformed long ago and so have our ethics and standards.


I didn't say anything about Christianity. I talked about biblical societies. And, the New Testament did nothing to condemn abortion, which was popular and wide spread. But, when you say "Christianity", I say you're talking about Catholicism. Catholicism is the only religion that completely and totally condemns birth control and abortion. Otherwise, every modern society today, except for Catholic societies, (and small isolated cults) accept abortion to a certain point.

Do make up your mind. Is the Bible relevant to today's society, or not?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Maybe I misunderstood you but you seemed to be the one who thought the unborn should have a say. I am just wondering how you think that will happen.
And their is one big difference between a baby and an unborn fetus!
A baby can survive without its mother!! Just take a trip to a hospital's nursery if you dont believe me. You will find quite a few babies sleeping comfortably, or in some cases crying, in their little cribs. Mom could walk out of the hospital and disappear into the night and that baby would still survive.
But there is no way you can separate a fetus from its mom, for any length of time till the fetus reaches the point where it can live outside the womb without causing the death of the fetus. So, it's not a question of weather its life or not, since there is no question as to weather the mother is alive and human and it would only elevate the status of the fetus to being equal to the mother. So how much discomfort, pain, disability, risk of death should one member of society be allowed to inflict on another?



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




I addressed this in the post you're quoting.


Yeah, you said you get it. Rape is bad. Incest is bad. Nature shouldn't always be allowed to "take it's course", unless it's a woman trying to control her own body and her own destiny. Then, nature's natural course should rule over women's will, in your opinion. I disagree.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




Beyond rape, incent, and physical danger to the mother, what are they?


Her autonomy and her free will.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


Maybe I misunderstood you but you seemed to be the one who thought the unborn should have a say. I am just wondering how you think that will happen.


We give them a say by developing and using our ethical and moral values. With as much unwavering respect for life as we can. I do not make religious arguments here. I make ethical arguments based on what is known scientifically.




And their is one big difference between a baby and an unborn fetus!


There is. Potential is something we ignore here. It is life at the moment of conception with HUMAN DNA. That's a HUMAN in development. Any decisions made on abortion need to take that into consideration. Our ethics and the facts demand it.




A baby can survive without its mother!! Just take a trip to a hospital's nursery if you dont believe me. You will find quite a few babies sleeping comfortably, or in some cases crying, in their little cribs. Mom could walk out of the hospital and disappear into the night and that baby would still survive.


A baby needs its mother. Human development is about a lot more than just mechanics.




But there is no way you can separate a fetus from its mom, for any length of time till the fetus reaches the point where it can live outside the womb without causing the death of the fetus.


That's not true. People have survived abortions. Fetuses have been removed, operated on, and replaced into the womb with hours between removal and replacement.

You're not making a good ethical argument here.




So, it's not a question of weather its life or not, since there is no question as to weather the mother is alive and human and it would only elevate the status of the fetus to being equal to the mother


Biology says that life begins at conception. It is life with the DNA of its parents.




So how much discomfort, pain, disability, risk of death should one member of society be allowed to inflict on another?


You tell me. You're the one arguing we should be able to do it outside of the limited scope traditionally allowed by society on moral and ethical grounds.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:56 PM
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Her autonomy and her free will.
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Not a good reason or an ethical reason.

That's called selfishness.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn




Nature is supposed to be allowed to take its course.


No it's not. Your supposed to be self determined, the master of your domain and "rule over nature". Create clothes and shelter to ward of nature. Build fires to cook food, to kill germs and preserve it longer. Build dams to control the water, and not be dependent on rain, and harness the water's energy. Find cures to disease....and on and on.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Free will is unethical? Why did God make sure to give it to us? Why did he give us dominion, if he wanted us to be victims to nature? Why did God create herbs that cause abortions, that women saw fit to use?






edit on 20-8-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Selfishness is not a virtue or an ethic by which to determine the value of life.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Her need to fulfill her responsibilities in life, like taking care or her already born children.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: projectvxn

Free will is unethical? Why did God make sure to give it to us? Why did he give us dominion, if he wanted us to be victims to nature? Why did God create herbs that cause abortions, that women saw fit to use?


You're not arguing with a religious zealot. Please dump the god stuff.



posted on Aug, 20 2019 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

BS. The biblical God was selfish. Wasn't he ethical? Aren't we made in his image?




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