Utah 'driver privilege' bill rankles immigrants: Update: Bill Signed Into Law

A recent bill in the state of Utah has immigrant rights activists angry. The bill requires them to hand in thier driver license and have them replaced with driving "privilege" cards. The cards can be used for driving only and are not to be used for identification. The cards would have to renewed annually and look different than regular drivers license.


Update: Bill Signed Into Law

SALT LAKE CITY - Gov. Jon Huntsman on Tuesday signed a bill replacing regular Utah driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants with driving privilege cards that can't be used as official identification to board airplanes or register to vote.

The move comes a day after hundreds of demonstrators gathered to protest the bill, arguing that the cards amount to second-class status for minorities.
Utah Bill Signed, Illegals Lose Licenses

A drivers license is almost like a ticket into just about everything. People see the license and there is an assumption made that you are a citizen, or in this country legally. You can open up a bank account, you can use it for positive identification, etc. However, I fail to see why they feel they are being persecuted. Its a simple but effective security measure. The former governor of California Grey Davis, passed a law allowing illegal aliens to get a license in a political move, which has been put on the back-burner for now.

[edit on 3/9/05 by FredT]

Here in Holland, you cannot use a driverlicense for ID/opening bank-account etc for over 15 years , a valid passport or European ID card is necessary,
especially since dutch passports are much harder to forge than driver-licenses, i don't know how american driverlicenses compare to american passports....

Still I think that promoting segregation with the "drive-privilage" is a bit over top , why can't or won't they just prohibit ANYONE from using driverlicence for ID purposes and require passports instead ???

We can expect that many countries will introduce iris scan holograms, biometric chips/RFID etc in their passports, making them even more secure, so from a technical SECURITY point of view I would think that would be a more prefferable ID than some driverlicence, or is perhaps the Utah proposal based on playing political sentiment rather than rational thinking ?


[edit on 5-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

Originally posted by FredT
Its a simple but effective security measure.

You answered your own question, Fred.

[edit on 05/3/5 by GradyPhilpott]

This wouldn't be nearly such a problem if our borders were secured against illegal entry. Either open them or close them, don't say they are closed and legislate accordingly, while in fact the whole time they were open. It's wasteful and ineffecient, not to mention frustrating.

I certainly have no problem with legal immigration. I have no problem with free travel across the border. Of course, "show me your papers" might sound bad, but it's all for the best. Either we need to abolish everything we've built, or commit to building it better.

Closed borders would reduce the call for fake identification by 80% easy. All the crime attached to fake id rings would vanish, their profits would dry up and they'd move to Asia where such professions are still in demand. Cocaine and Heroin would cease to be a major problem. Methamphetamine use would unfortunately skyrocket, at least I presume it would...

Still, the dedicated drivers liscense seems a useful tool to allow immigrants to get to and from work, why the hell are they protesting it? Because it's a reduction in the level of complacency they expect? heh Good for Utah in that respect. Of course if they make this law and the feds end up doing the right thing about the border, it might not make any difference.

There is a mounting call from the illegal immigrant community to be granted rights. They seem to complain about our laws, but since they're not citizens, what the hell does it matter to them? If they're not supposed to be here, if they snuck in, what sort of representation do they expect in the halls of government. The stowaways on a ship don't get to tell the captain and his mates where to go. Not under any circumstances.

They should sit back and enjoy the ride. Wherever we're going, we'll get there soon.

[edit on 5-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

The state of Utah is in essesnse giving the illegals a back door right to drive and just about everything else they can gain with a state issued permit or I.D. if thats wht they want to call it. Why do they not just go on and swear them in right on the spot.? My friends let me assure you that if the state of Va. even tried to imitate something of this nature,you would see one hell of a battle not only in Richmond but on every street corner in the form of vocal protests. I am not racist. I welcome anyone to this great country as long as it is done the proper way in which the state and Fed. Govt. specfies. It is time we start to re-gain control of our govt. and hold the ones who we elected to enact laws and rules over us, to be held to the fire. This is only one way we can do it without violence, and when it comes down to taking proper healthcare, food, and other forms of social programs away from those who put the money in the system in the form of taxes and turn around and give it some who is here illegally it is just mind numbing. Can I be the only one who sees this assult on our State and Federal programs for those who are sick or disabled and cannot work due to some type of disability and a portion of that money going to feed someone who crossed our border without proper papers or for the pregnate illegal who just gave birth and who is taking up valuable space in the E.R. that could be going to a citizen who was born and raised in the U.S. that has been turned away simply because he or she has no insurance? I saw this not long ago and I got really pissed and told myself that this is a problem that needs to be fixed. So starting on the first of April, I'm going to start a grass roots program in my area to better inform our public of just how much money these leeches are taking away from those who really need it. I have had the idea for awhile now and this post just tripped my trigger so to say. I have enoungh money to rent a billboard for a month and given my right to free speach, I am going to let the thousands of commuters who pass by it everyday see just how much money they are costing the taxpayers of Va. My hope is this will stimulate some into thinking about the facts and take it a step further: Get it to Richmond where the shear numbers of citizens will force our elected officals to act on this issue in a very direct and responsible way. If they do not act with the citizens best wishes in mind, we will have them recalled from office. It worked in Calif. and it can work here in Va. There are American Vets. in this area who just got back from the Sand Pit and cannot get the medical attention they need in order to get better healthcare because the system is just that much strained. Many would prefer to not use the V.A. system because their definitation of care is questionable on any given workday and I can agree. I know men & women who have tried to use other hospitals in our area just to be turned away even without telling the staff they are Vets. and at the same time noting the E.R. has a large number of very questionable people of Spanish decent. Not everyone who is of Spanish decent is illegal, but when a cop goes by they scatter like flies. So you my friend you tell me how to fix this growing problem. Are we just going to sit back and let remain as the status quo, or are we going to take proactive stance and try to fix this burgining problem that has no end in sight.?

*yawn* how many times are people going to play the holocaust card imagrints have it great in this counrty and just because of a new ID is mentioned makes us nazi's somehow? talk about a group of dramma queens

an immigrant who is a citizen is just as much american as any other, including those born in america. You are not above them or better than them in any way. If they are going to introduce these cards, they should be for everyone, not just immigrants.

Originally posted by General Zapata
If they are going to introduce these cards, they should be for everyone, not just immigrants.

The intent of the new cards is so that voter fraud can be ellimnated. Only US born or naturalized legal entrants should be allowed to have a standard drivers license.

Americans cannot go into Europe or most countries for that matter and drive w/o out obtaining an international driving permit which is vertually the very same thing these cards are. Why should it be any different for hispanics driving in the US?

If you enter Mexico you have to obtain special car insurance, the same in Canada. When you get stopped, what is the first thing they ask for your drivers license and proof of insurance that those two alone show that you are not a citizen of those two countries, yet that is OK in your book no doubt huh?

Edit to add. There are aproximately 12 other states that will not issue drivers licenses to non-citizens all Utah has done is joined those that realized there was a problem when issuing standard drivers license to non citizens. I might add that in doing so they prevent stealing the identity of someone else.

[edit on 3/6/2005 by shots]

General Zapata
an immigrant who is a citizen is just as much american as any other, including those born in america. You are not above them or better than them in any way. If they are going to introduce these cards, they should be for everyone, not just immigrants

You're right. An immigrant that is lawfully here should be treated with same rights and respect.

SALT LAKE CITY - Gov. Jon Huntsman on Tuesday signed a bill replacing regular Utah driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants with driving privilege cards that can't be used as official identification to board airplanes or register to vote.

The move comes a day after hundreds of demonstrators gathered to protest the bill, arguing that the cards amount to second-class status for minorities.
Utah Bill Signed, Illegals Lose Licenses

Originally posted by General Zapata
an immigrant who is a citizen is just as much american as any other, including those born in america. You are not above them or better than them in any way. If they are going to introduce these cards, they should be for everyone, not just immigrants.

You're not even an American, Zapata. Do you reside here?

The issue here is not immigrants, but undocumented immigrants, which is to say, illegal immigrants, or rather, criminals.

Originally posted by FredT
Utah Bill Signed, Illegals Lose Licenses

It's about time someone stood up to the destroy America left. The United States has a duty to protect it's citizens from the onslaught of illegals who, colletctively, drain from our system much more than they contribute.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The United States has a duty to protect it's citizens from the onslaught of illegals who, colletctively, drain from our system much more than they contribute.

Well, the problem I see with this logic (even though I agree with it in principle) is that it could be applied to some other demographics that might hit closer to home for some 'red-blooded Americans.'

For example, the elderly drain more from the system than they contribute. So do children. That doesn't mean they should be thrown out of the country, it means we need to find new ways to make them useful.

The same could be said for illegals.

I'm sure there is a creative solution to the problem, but pretending it's not there, or simply allowing bigotry and insular nationalism to shout down reason, as the democrats and republicans tend to do (respectively) won't fix anything.

This is a non-partisan issue (despite the fact that Democrats milk the pity angle, and Republicans milk the racism/fear angle) and should be handled in non-partisan fashion.

Close the borders we won't have this problem. Police the borders with the US Armed Forces, we REALLY won't have this problem. Or...

Open the borders, fling the doors wide. In a matter of no time this country will be crappier than the countries these immigrants are coming from, and they'll start to filter back across the border. That of course starts a cycle of renewal, and decline, yadda yadda yadda. Not the worst solution, but definitely not the best.

But giving them privileges despite the fact they aren't even supposed to be here seems ludicrous to me. Even acknowledging them is a mistake, if we're trying to stem the tide.

Can't work? Go home. Can't put your kids in school? Go home. Can't drive? Go home. Can't get medical treatment? Go home. Can't eat? Go home. -- Cruel, but effective.

The problem as I see it, we as a country are trying to toe the invisible, razor thin line between compassion and cruelty. We're trying to look out for our own interests, while at the same time look out for the interests of undocumented foreigners. Those two ARE mutually exclusive (under the current system).

Perhaps a more holistic approach? Part of the allure of America is the freedom and oppurtunity for advancement. Mostly that's a lure put out by corporations eager to recruit slave labor domestically. Take Walmart, fast food chains, and day labor out of the equation, and the lure pretty much vanishes. I'm not suggesting we do away with Walmart or day labor, rather, their ability to employ (exploit) immigrant labor should be hamstringed.

For example, the local Walmart wants to employ illegals. They get caught. Does it make sense to fine them some arbitrary amount that in the end amounts to a drop in the bucket, a mosquito bite on the ass of an elephant? No! That's like punishing a child by brushing their forehead with a feather. The answer is to close the store, arrest and detain the people responsible for hiring the illegals, and force Walmart through citizen action to act responsibly.

If people weren't so damn bargain hungry there wouldn't be a problem. It's fine to have illegals working in the kitchen as long as your burger is a dollar cheaper...

To add to what Grady has already said:

Do people ever actually read the stories?

"I don't believe that it's the role of the State of Utah to provide documentation or some type of ID so that someone who is illegal can travel with impunity," Bramble said.

I mean seriously. This is actually a good thing for once. It doesn't effect American citizens or even *legal* immigrants. This knee-jerk, reactionary stuff to everything has got to end.