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Do men have any rights concerning abortion?

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posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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We frequently read about pro-choicers and pro-lifers and what their take is on the issue of abortion. I am starting this thread not to start a debate on whether abortion should be leagl or not. BUT rather whether men should really be excluded from the choice of abortion.

If a woman has a baby she can take the father to court and demand he pays child support. Whether he wanted this child or not.
If a woman decides not to have the baby and the father wants her to have the baby then he is told its not his business, it is her body.
When recently Scott Peterson was recently convicted of killing his wife and UNBORN baby a preseumption of life was made regarding the baby, he wasn't found guilty of aborting an unwanted and unborn baby.

"On the one hand, the father who wants to defend the life of his child is often accused of meddling in something that is not his business.

On the other hand, the father who wants to leave the (mistaken) decision of abortion in the hands of the mother alone is often accused of being uncaring and distant. This, in turn, can create feelings of isolation in the mother, which in turn makes it easier for her to resort to abortion.

Furthermore, the law is a powerful teacher. It says the father has no rights in the abortion decision. But the other side of the coin of "rights" is "responsibilities." The current state of the law regarding fathers and abortion can easily foster a sense of irresponsibility in young men.

Post-abortion counseling services are seeing an increasing number of men come forward, grieving their aborted children. Many of the same dynamics of post-abortion distress that we see in women are are also present in men. "

I would be interested in reading both men and women's opinion in this regard? Is abortion really a woman thing? Or do men have rights to their children prior to birth?

www.priestsforlife.org...




posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Men should have the right. Half the baby is theirs afterall and without the man there would be no baby.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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i've been talking about the exact same thing for quite a while now.

Seems the "Powers that be" are talking out both sides of their faces. Mom offs the baby its called abortion and nearly everybody is good with it. Dad offs the baby and it murder.

Ever notice how the news media is treating it. called a fetus if mom does it but "unborn child" if dad does it.

i'm just waiting for the day when sperm donors are tracted down via their DNA and made to pay child support retroactive to conception. At what point are we going to draw the line and preserve even some sembalance of fathers rights???

why can't a male "father" of a fetus say before the end of the first trimester : "i don't want it" and if the mother carries through she is on her own? (i know this is a harsh question- and not my view- but a valid question none the less)

At what point can the father sue or prosecute if the mother terminates the pregnancy and he wanted the child??


What kind of release paperwork does a male need to have the female sign before engaging in intercourse so that he cannot be turned into a slave for the next 18 years for a child he might not have wanted to concieve? - after all no form of birth control is 100%.

consider this: the birth control pill is only 99% effective. Most couples engange in intercourse 3-5 times a week- 52 weeks in a year. using only the lower frequency of those numbers (156 times a year) would mean playing the odds that the female will concieve in short order!!


i think women really do control everything- and always has been that way - it just used to be much more subtle.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by launchpad

At what point can the father sue or prosecute if the mother terminates the pregnancy and he wanted the child??




I was in this situation about 11 years ago. I was seeing a girl from Lebanon and her father was a real hardliner. She got pregnant and had to have an abortion without her father knowing. I told her that I would rather have the child and raise it on my own, but she wouldnt hear of it. The fear of her father was pretty strong I guess. For what ever reasons, she had the abortion and there was not a damn thing I could do about it. Johnny Cochran couldnt win that case.

[edit on 3/5/05 by Kidfinger]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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No, they have the responsibility to pay child support only. Fathers are insignificant according to the most esteemed 'intellectual' party, DNC. I am not a republican by the way.

I quote. " it is my body and I have a right to do with it as I please".

response: So shoot up heroin you baby killing whores. Is that illegal? Heroin part or whore part? Its your body!

Flag! oops am I in the negative again? - 229 and counting.

Damn freedom of speech huh?

I am done, ban me if you want. i doubt it will make a difference either way.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Lets take a science fiction approach here for a minute, if it were possible, (which it might in the future) and the mother decided she wanted to have an abortion and the father decided he didn't want the fetus to be killed, would he have the right to have the fetus transplanted into a surrogate mother who would carry the fetus to term. AND if this could be done would the mother still have the right to say no I would rather kill this baby so you don't have this option? How would this be her body to make this decision about? AND if once the baby was born from the surrogate mother should the father not have the right to apply tomcourt for child support from the mother?

Where does equality in reproduction really start? it is obviously not part of the current lifestyle.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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They should have the right to demand that the baby is allowed to live...(and be heard)....unless of course, delivery proves too dangerous for the mother.
they should also be willing to take on at least half of the childcare responsiblities as well as the half the financial responsibilities, while she takes on the other half....if together, or well, willing to take custody of the child, and she can be obligated for the child support.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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This is a tough one it really is as it's a yes and no for me. I'm convinced a couple of years back an ex of mine had an abortion without telling me.

Now, if I ever found this out to be the case I would probably be gutted, and go on a self-rightious rant of "that was my kid too, what right do you have" e.t.c.
However, deep down I've got to secretly thank her for it if I'm being honest. Neither of us were ready for a child (I doubt I ever will be) and she likely decided to take the pain of the decision and going through it all on her own.

I think she knew I would've likely asked her to keep it even though I didn't really want it, and really I should've been offered the opportunity to have my say on the matter...together. However, at the same time I know she did the right thing.

I don't actually know what I'm trying to say here...because if I actually did want the baby and she did that without me ever knowing then I would naturally go ballistic...but on judging on this one case she made the right decision for both of us, even though I'd still be angry to learn the truth.

As for who officially has more rights I'm sick of hearing the woman argument of "My body e.t.c."
Errr...yes that might be the case, but it was actually created in our body first, we just sent it to a cozey place to stay for 9 months.

Of course I'm joking but hopefully you can see what I mean, no one has more of a say as both sexes are equally responsible for creating and raising the life.
It's BS to argue that you have more of a right because it was in your body last, sounds like playground rules to me.


After writing this much I've realised that I still haven't actually got an opinion here and haven't contributed to this at all, I'm too conflicted, I'm just going to go away now. My apologies.


One thing though, you should check out the campaign for "Fathers for Justice" in the UK, who are demanding the rights for more fathers to have equal rights to their children, including who get custody e.t.c. They've had enough of the almost automatic court ruling that a kid should be with their mother, and I've got to agree with them.


They let this be known by climbing up on buildings such as the Houses of Parliament and Buckingham Palace dressed as Batman, Spiderman e.t.c. and protest.


Here's their official site anyway. Fathers 4 Justice



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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The problem here is that it is not the man that goes through all the bodily changes, emotional upheavals and birth...not to mention that most men are not the ones to give up their lives to raise the child.....do not jump me! I am saying most men. I know Kidfinger and I think he would of taken that child and done fine....he's a good father! But many men are not that way, after the initial excitement of a child is gone....it's the mother left alone. I don't think things will change on this subject due to the reasons I stated at the beginning.....for the record though, I think it's unfair and it's not right. The father is just as important to the child as the mother!



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Angelic1
We frequently read about pro-choicers and pro-lifers and what their take is on the issue of abortion. I am starting this thread not to start a debate on whether abortion should be leagl or not. BUT rather whether men should really be excluded from the choice of abortion.

Would it come down to forcing a woman to carry a baby full term on the father's request? How could this be imposed? Keep her in restraints for 9 months?
I agree the father should be consulted.. but ultimately it's her choice. As for people thinking the 'my body' argument is silly.. grow a uterus.
It would be a hell of a risk for a woman to put her body through that.. give birth and find the father that wanted the baby has disapeared though.
Likewise.. if a man wants his gf to terminate and she says no.. his problem. He should have protected himself if he didn't want to be in that situation.. saying 'but she said she was on the pill' after the fact is just pointless [same thing my cousin said- he's a daddy now.
]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Lady V you make very valid points , however its difficult to say what fathers would be like as single parents as they are seldom given this choice to make. If we are working towards a more equalitarian world, which I hope we are, it might be imprtant for more men to learn to be parents rather than for more women to keep that role as sacred to them. How many women actually actively promote the bonding between baby and father?



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I know Kidfinger and I think he would of taken that child and done fine....he's a good father!


Thank You LadyV. That means alot comming from you.





But many men are not that way, after the initial excitement of a child is gone....it's the mother left alone.


Unfortunatly, this is true. There are alot of men out there who are just out for the 'pump and jump'. A good father starts when he is a child with his father. Most of these men who are not good fathers, or wouldnt make good fathers, have not had much of a father figure in there lives. I was lucky. My father came from a small town in KY. and he had small town values which he instilled in me. Most guys dont have this anymore. I know I just went on a daddy bash, but there are mothers outhere who are just as unfit for parenthood as those men I previously mentioned. It is not all guys, but for the most part, the bad fathers are the ones you hear about. You dont hear about to many Andrea Yates's. But you hear the term 'dead beat dad' almost daily.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
but there are mothers outhere who are just as unfit for parenthood as those men I previously mentioned.



Most definitely! My granddaughter's mother fit this perfectly....Kid, you know what I am talking about! There are some poor children out there that have it bad from both sides, mother and father....I also think they should go after "dead beat mom's"!



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Kidfinger
but there are mothers outhere who are just as unfit for parenthood as those men I previously mentioned.



Most definitely! My granddaughter's mother fit this perfectly....Kid, you know what I am talking about!


And as far as I can tell, Your Grandbaby is doing just fine now that she is with you.
Just so all of you know, LadyV has one of the most beautiful and sweetest little grandaughters in the world.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Not really. If men want a say, let them find a way to implant unwanted fetuses in thier own guts. Otherwise, it aint their damn biz.

And if men want more control in the matter, its high time they become more discriminate where and how often they place their own peckers. If they do not want a mess afterwords, I suggest they stop having casual relations and get happy with the hand or some paid professional.

Otherwise, they reap whatever they sow.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


And if men want more control in the matter, its high time they become more discriminate where and how often they place their own peckers. If they do not want a mess afterwords, I suggest they stop having casual relations and get happy with the hand or some paid professional.



It takes 2 to get it on. The women has just as much control over where that pecker gets poked as the men do. A simple "NO" would suffice.

[edit on 3/5/05 by Kidfinger]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Not really. If men want a say, let them find a way to implant unwanted fetuses in thier own guts. Otherwise, it aint their damn biz.


Not so! Thye are in every way, one half of that child! It's true they don't go through the same ordeal, as I mentioned above....but they are still half of that child in every way!


And if men want more control in the matter, its high time they become more discriminate where and how often they place their own peckers.


And women should be more careful as to laying down with people without protection and BC.....if a man isn't going to do it, than if you don't want to be pregnant you better damn well take care of it yourself...unless of course, you figure if you get pregnant you can just go get an abortion!
You know....woman do not have the corner marketed on instinctual love of a child!



[edit on 3/5/2005 by LadyV]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Kidfinger you are a prime example of the new MAN. The new man isn't metrosexual, he is caring without necessarily having to give up his masculinity. I started this thread not to cause a storm but to make people think about how men feel about the situation. Men are stereotyped as skadi has so adequately demonstrated. I don't blame her for seeing men as the villains in this scenario, its the stereotype of man that the media keeps propagating.

I want to share a story here about a friend who was involved with a woman, they were both excited when she got pregnant BUT he didn't want to get married to her. She knew from the start that he did not want a long term relationship with her, but she decided to get pregnant without his consent anyway. So when she got pregnant did he run away? No! Did he marry her as she wanted him to? No! Did he stand by her through the pregnancy? Yes! So when the baby was born she decided she didn't want to keep the baby, so she decided to have the baby adopted. He immediately said he wished to adopt the baby. She said that she didn't want him to have the baby and proceeded to have the baby adopted by other people. yes, these people were suitable parents, but is the baby really hers to give away like a puppy? or does he have rights? He was not married to her so she had the right to give the child up for adoption. He fought the case and with his parents financial and emotional support he won the case before the adoption could be finalized. this is not an isolated incident.

Men should have more rights over their reproduction.

[edit on 5-3-2005 by Angelic1]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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And the other half, the female, does make her own descisions. sbort, keep, or give up.

And the male must make his choice. This includes being far more selective in sex partners.

This is not a media image either. I live in a rather low class part of town and every day I see tons of indiscriminate men wandering about sowing their seed indiscriminately, producing all sorts of ill spawned brats running amok and trashing the place.

As for a baby being half of the mans? Not while its in the womans body. Iy gets down to property rights. The womans body and anything in it is her property. Once a man loses his seed into the female, thats it. Its no longer his to control, and he should have no say until the kid is born. Until then, it is in the female body, its HER property, much like a baseball that lands on your neighbors property.

Since women ceased being the property of men, thus, anything that it residing in or on their bodies is their descision. If the man fears such a lose of control, he should be alot more careful on whose "property" he sows it on.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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It is refreshing to finally get a new member that doesnt automatically go into ignorance mode. Angelic1, Just wanted you to know I am voting you for way above due to your rational outlook and your unmitigated acceptance of others opinions. We dont get many new members like you.



BTW, thatnk you for your compliment. Much appreciated




You have voted Angelic1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.



[edit on 3/5/05 by Kidfinger]




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