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A former Democrat...

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posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 01:47 AM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: xuenchen

You will def be my choice for press secretary.

Also instead of using Twitter as our main outlet we'll be using ATS lol.

I have great Faith that you can handle the MSM clowns easily Xuenchen.
We need a pro like you on the front line. You have the right energy and lots of spunk.


I want that department re-named to Ministry of Truth over Facts !!! 😃




posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 03:06 AM
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Now that I have a bit more time....


originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: dfnj2015
I never said I was a Republican! I am not.
More like a libertarian, anti-globalist who strives to be practical.


That's pretty much how I describe myself. Although that has meant I've leaned GOP or 3rd Party ( Here's looking at you Ross, RIP) most of my adult life.

On social issues, I'm very much left... On fiscal issues, I lean right fairly consistently. But guiding almost everything I believe in politically is my belief in the Constitution, and it's Separation of Powers and Bill of Rights.....and history.

I think history teaches us almost everything we need to know about human governance.

I came to ATS during the Bush administration, and I think it's fair to say I was about as anti that administration as anyone could get. I particularly despised Rove, who I still think to this day was the principle architect of why politics went bad in this country.

I did not vote for Obama either term. I smelled a charlatan from the very beginning. Although when he won his first term, I really did want to believe in all of that Hope and Change he was selling.

Needless to say, that didn't last...

So in the end, neither party has really suited me.

Today, the most frustrating thing I see is a philosophy on both sides that results in a never-give-an-inch form of governance that effectively renders us incapable of effectively governing anything. I find that maddening.

And what I see now looming in the near future is terrifying. We are completely unprepared for any of the real challenges coming our way.

We are going to need to do a lot better than leveling insults against the little orange man and Fredo.

Here's to hoping for the best, while preparing for the worst.



Great thread, btw.




edit on 14-8-2019 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I grew up a Democrat as well. I still do not think Republicans are what America needs, but the threat the Democrats pose is one America will never recover from.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I hear that!
There is corruption and greed from both sides of the aisle. Plenty of blame to go around in Washington.
It has much to do with money taking over politics. Lobbyists. Corporations given person status.
There is something afoot to undermine---take down, crash--- the Republic, and IMHO socialism is at the root.

The will of the people is being ignored.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe



But let’s say you were a life long union person

Trump is fighting for American jobs. He is trying to protect from base trade deals and open borders that hurt blue collar labor markets




Uh, isn't Trump super anti-union? I'm having trouble handling the cognitive dissonance.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

I don’t know if he is super anti union

I do know he is pushing for many of the same trade policies unions are



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't know, is he? Maybe you can source what you refer to.

I love the idea behind the Union, but unfortunately Unions are just too corrupt.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:31 AM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

The tyrannical imposition of socialism. That is why Democrats are threatening the SC. One thing Democrats need to do is get rid of guns before they can truly have the power they want. The SC is not having it, so Democrats have told the SC to bow to their will or they too will be destroyed and turned into Democrat puppets.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Here are just a couple of examples of Trump or his cabinet taking a stance or action against unions in some fashion:

Here

And here

And here

I could keep listing various example articles calling out the variety of issues Trump has championed against unions, but I think the gist of what I'm talking about is covered for the most part.

I can understand the conservative talking point of Trump being the champion for the working American, but to say Trump has done anything good for unions or those who are pro-union feels mislabeled since I can't really find any example of Trump improving the power or function of unions in any way.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:49 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Again, he is advocating for trade policies to benefit unions and workers

And my point wasn’t union members are all pro trump

I know at least one who would never vote for trump, but now finds impossible to hire for democrats who want to destroy his industry

The point is who is the voice for these people? Despite their hatred of trump, of hiven only the choice between him and democrats that want to eliminate their jobs, who do they go with?



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

So Trump wanted people who suck at their job and can't perform to be able to be fired. I support that. It is not anti-Union.

Trump wanted to limit how much time people getting paid to do a job people spend NOT doing that job and instead doing Union stuff. That is not anti-Union. I support that.

Why do you support people who are unable to do their job to keep their job rather than finding someone who can do the job?
Why do you support people working for the Union and not doing their job that they are being paid to do?

None of that is anti-Union despite Democrat rhetoric.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Wayfarer

Again, he is advocating for trade policies to benefit unions and workers

And my point wasn’t union members are all pro trump

I know at least one who would never vote for trump, but now finds impossible to hire for democrats who want to destroy his industry

The point is who is the voice for these people? Despite their hatred of trump, of hiven only the choice between him and democrats that want to eliminate their jobs, who do they go with?


I get what you're saying on the whole, I think you just need to amend some generalizations. He has done nothing to benefit unions, but rather to benefit workers (if we take what he says at face value). The value of unions is being eliminated/undercut by Trump's policies. Using pro-union language when speaking about Trump just seems like a misappropriation of his position on unions (which he's been pretty clearly anti-union from the beginning of his presidency).

That being said I take no issue with yours or others comments about Trump being good for workers (though I disagree personally), since although I don't think he's taking the right actions to help workers he's not blatantly and openly fighting against them (as he is with unions).

Rather than dive into the specifics/minutia of unions and their supposed benefits, the answer to your query I think is probably best taken from historical data rather than emotional and subjective data. Under which political stewardship have workers benefited the most? I believe Democratic leadership has on the aggregate benefited the US workforce more, though I respect your (assumed on my part) contrary belief that its the Republican's who hold that title.

Here is an article touching on some of the more gross aspects of correlation between political control and economic benefit to support my position:

Here



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:12 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

So Trump wanted people who suck at their job and can't perform to be able to be fired. I support that. It is not anti-Union.

Trump wanted to limit how much time people getting paid to do a job people spend NOT doing that job and instead doing Union stuff. That is not anti-Union. I support that.

Why do you support people who are unable to do their job to keep their job rather than finding someone who can do the job?
Why do you support people working for the Union and not doing their job that they are being paid to do?

None of that is anti-Union despite Democrat rhetoric.


You are making the usual anti-union arguments, and I can't fault you for doing so (and I appreciate the politeness nonetheless). Just like with any system, there are going to be those who take advantage of it. The same can be said of any enterprise (so unions are not unique in that regard). Taking that argument to its logical extreme however would give us reason to enable no positive entity whatsoever on the grounds that someone may take advantage of it.

Unions also do a lot of good protecting workers where other entities (even governments) wouldn't. This isn't just malarkey I'm making up, but rather is freely available in a variety of historical sources (its quite well documented). It is worrisome that there are those who believe if we just remove any restrictions for employer's to abuse their employee's that they'll not do so out of the goodness of their hearts is willfully ignoring the past.

So, in summation merely arguing that by eliminating unions we eliminate the unfortunate (and rare) elements that are negative drivers belies the greater effect it would have to the detriment of workers (as history has shown).



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Isn't the desired outcome a work environment where workers are valued and treated properly and there is no need for a Union?



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:13 AM
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#walkaway is real. It's so terrifying to Democrats that they have to pretend it's nothing but Russian bots, but it's not. Not everyone who leaves the Democrat party is becoming a Republican. A lot of them are going Independent. But they're losing the people they supposedly care about because, like this guy, they simply don't care for them the way they pretend to. You show that devotion and they walk all over you.

My mother was a lifelong Democrat. She voted for Trump in 2016. My brother, union Democrat, is voting for Trump in 2020. The Democrat party has gone bat# crazy letting the extremists run the show. People are sick of it. Keep it up, dummies.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

Isn't the desired outcome a work environment where workers are valued and treated properly and there is no need for a Union?


Not for the union reps. They get to feel important and take trips to their fancy meetings. It's like civil rights, women's rights, etc. The unions did their job, workers have infinitely better conditions than they did a century ago, but they have to pretend everyone is still oppressed or they'd be out of a job.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Annee
I guess if keeping what you've worked for is is greedy, then that's me. I'm an old white man so any name you care to throw at me won't be the worst. Moreover, I don't care what I'm called. I provide for myself and my family, I'm also charitable. I am the racist, misogynist, hateful conservative and I'll proudly wear any label the left cares to call me, because.... look at the ones calling me names.



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

Isn't the desired outcome a work environment where workers are valued and treated properly and there is no need for a Union?


Absolutely! I think any sane person would prefer that arrangement. Would you imagine federal mandates that mirrored the protections of unions acceptable (so long as they covered the overall majority of aspects that workers find most important)?



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Annee
They are both about greed. President Trump is probably the only one who came in rich. Bush was a trust baby. Obama was not poor but not rich either until he left office. The entire system is spoiled with greed and self indulgence. Make no mistake a real house cleaning is what we need.

A good old farmer who has worked the land and budgeted to make ends meet makes for a good Senator or Congressman. Career politicians are those who start from the bottom of politics, running mail or being an intern on the Senate floor, and learn the crooked system and inject themselves into the carousel of crap.

Go ahead take sides but I prefer to back this President not either party. President Trump has to tag himself to the Republicans because most people don't back independents. The social conditioning is to strong for a lot to overcome. Many times we are backed into a corner and must choose between the two or a vote is wasted.

I think the government is so polluted with fraud and waste that the only way to prevent the populace from rebelling is for the deep state powers to inflict Marxism/socialism on us to gain control. If they don't they will hang if we get our way. The social conditioning by most mainstream media is really obvious and telling how things will be. All the talking heads will sit on the top of the Marxist pyramid while the rest of us will suffer the dictates they lay down on us. Do not let the emotional narrative hook you.

An addition to my rant is not just the relentless BS that comes out of the mouths of Democrats but the deafening silence on the side of the Republicans. Why so mute? If I was on the floor of the Senate I would rant and rave about the Communist leanings of my colleagues on the Democrat side. Where is this taking us. Show graphs of what illegal immigrants are costing us. Show those on the left that the work and taxes they contribute barely scratch the debt they incur on us. It is all insane. Makes no sense and is totally indefensible thus requiring their emotional racist narrative to gain a minute of validity. So now silence seems to show complicity.

So where do we the people stand? IN A DEEP PILE OF S@#T if we allow the Second Amendment to be assaulted. WAKE OF MY LEFT ATS FRIENDS!!! YOU CAN EASILY VOTE IN SOCIALISM BUT YOU WILL DAMN SURE HAVE TO SHOOT YOUR WAY OUT OF IT!!!!
edit on 14-8-2019 by Ansuzrune because: Addition to rant



posted on Aug, 14 2019 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Some of them yes. I do not want to reward unproductive workers like Unions do though. I also think worker's councils should be an option, but corrupt Unions have made them illegal, can't have competition.




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