Everyone Needs to Condemn China over Hong Kong Right Now!!

originally posted by: Nyiah
Screw 'em. Their house, their mess.

I've said it time and again, and I'll say it once more -- I'm real damn tired of us being the World Police every time someone stateside whines and every time someone abroad doesn't want to do their own dirty work. If Hong Kong wants to maintain their status quo and not go Full China, then the good folks of HONG KONG need to see to that.

Not the UN.
Not the damn US.

HONG KONG.

They live there, it's their responsibility to look after their home and govern it as they see fit however they can achieve that end, and nobody else.

It's one thing to go in and help people out under the boot of major atrocities that they have zero hope of fighting off. Reabsorbing back into China ain't one of them. If the people of Hong Kong don't like it, they need to buck up and get their hands a little dirtier than just protesting in the streets. Nobody else is going to do that job for them.

I think it's more of an issue of China breaking international agreements to reabsorb Hong Kong prematurely. But like I mentioned before, is anyone here willing to die for Hong Kong? (I never did get a straight answer)

a reply to: sine.nomine

The British lost when US took over after the war because most men died fighting against the Nazi's. The deeper you go into China unpeacefully, the worst outcome will come out of it. Right now the Chinese gov is doing everything right. HK not so much. If they were smart, they would've taken leadership earlier and some how be able to stay neutral. But, no they had to ally Western spies only which we all know are equally corrupt to the core since Iraqi war(I mean Saddam hates Iran, if US want to invade Iran they could have let Saddam do it first, now we know who is stabbing who). Like no one in UK/USA has the right mind to even fight for the corrupt Gov, what makes HKer think we will save your butts and start WW3?

Remember how WW1 started? All about China since Opium war. Eight nation before WW1(the alliance was a fking lie). WW2 started(again Japs stab China in the back and broke anti-Comintern pact)? China divided into many pieces and alliance against China. WW3? Yup all about China again. China seems to be the one getting raided left and right before all the backstabbing begins. Either by pirates, Mongols, or Japan. God has now forbid any kind of nuclear war. So be smart, try to stay neutral and dig harder on the real enemies of mankind. We all know Chinese don't play games since ancient times.

Also, China is the only one bringing out the tech to civilian sector. What are the other countries doing? Hiding it all for military machines and one day they will march all over you and you won't get your internet to warn anyone.

Hint to HKers, read fking history.

a reply to: MRinder

Words will not solve this. But if the US starts moving warships, planes, etc that might get their attention. If that doesn't work then the US starts sinking their ships that will probably get them to think twice.

China you know can hurt America's trade area I think America wouldn't risk such a unwise move that would only inflame the region to worse.

Not to mention this would make China moving and moving closer to Russia. The only reason these protests are happening is because the west/America lost its regime change in Syria.

So now they fuelling the wishes of Sen John McCain of his late threats of Arab Spring in China.

This is a disaster in the making.

The only way to get China to pull back from this would be for the West to do a total break in trade with China and kick them out of the WTO. The price of taking HK by force must be too high to even attempt it. Use every financial tool we can to force China to give Hong Kong some form of autonomy. There is no military option that doesn't destroy Hong Kong's current status.

It's a tough situation. We need to support Hong Kong but options are limited. The actions of the West need to be unified and totally blunt. If China brings troops into HK, all trade and financial ties with China need to cease.

Even then, that might not stop China. We have to make the price far too high to pay.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: muzzleflash

This what happens when we have colonialism the British have been messing with the world for centuries.

Yes but every Pom is hanging their head low and sorry for the trauma created whe they ditched Hong Kong

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: muzzleflash

This what happens when we have colonialism the British have been messing with the world for centuries.

Without British Colonisation you wouldn't be living in the country that you do. Maybe you would prefer it that way.

Unless you're going to tell me you are a Native American Indian.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Please CONDEMN China people!!!

While I agree and understand why Hong Kong is against this, what I do not like and understand is people who cannot tell the difference between country and individuals of that country.

Should we condemn every person in every country that has done terrible things? Do you condemn yourself, and every single person in your country for the bad things your government has done? I doubt it!

This is a huge problem, and one which means we can look at other countries, esp countries where people do not like their governments, and think that every person is bad, or thinks or agrees eith their government.

Basically means you look at that country as not a country filled with individual people, but more like a collective, Borg I guess you could say.

If you want to go all out against the Chinese government, then do that, but do not put every single chinese person in China in the same boat, as you do not know them.

originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
a reply to: muzzleflash

Agree. If ever there was truly tyranny worthy of resistance in the modern sense it is China.

Hong Kong, The Uyghurs, their own people.

Where are the ANZAC’s you ask? Hasn’t existed since WW2 (we have separate armies).

I do at times wonder how long until English and European history are banned in Australia. The silent invasion is what it’s being referred to.

Really? Are you forgetting about the millions of innocent deaths caused by the west in the last two decades alone? Stop being a hypocrite!

a reply to: muzzleflash

The modern world has no place for extremely repressive regimes like this.

Seriously! ? Are you ignoring the horrors the west have done in the last two decades alone?

The problem here, is that most, if not all governments do terrible, horrible things? Stop picking and choosing which ones are bad, depending on your belief and where you were brought up or live.

Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Ok, after having a 10 hour nap I'm back and will try to respond to some posts here. I actually had no plans to post this thread it just happened "in the moment" and I wasn't actually prepared or anything. So let's see here...

originally posted by: UKTruth
Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Agree completely.
China's power is in their economy, and without international trade they would collapse overnight.

The rest of the world could recover from economic sanctions against China, but China couldn't. Yes I realize it would cause market crashes around the world but it wouldn't be the end of those markets, because the next few days enterprising investors would buy up all the cheap assets that would survive in a world without China being dominant.

originally posted by: UKTruth
Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Yeah, and watch western companies fall apart in the process! It's all connected! You think by doing that the west would not suffer? Seriously?

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: UKTruth
Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Agree completely.
China's power is in their economy, and without international trade they would collapse overnight.

The rest of the world could recover from economic sanctions against China, but China couldn't. Yes I realize it would cause market crashes around the world but it wouldn't be the end of those markets, because the next few days enterprising investors would buy up all the cheap assets that would survive in a world without China being dominant.

Rubbish! Because of the trade war, western companies are already suffering. If China fell, so would alot of countries in the West!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Jay, you've been here since 2009 - don't you remember that I condemn the US for it's treachery, lies, hypocrisy, and underhanded tactics pretty consistently? Out of my 24,000+ posts I'm sure I've condemned virtually every little aspect of our government in every way possible multiple times over.

If you read my OP you'd see I was using sarcasm to make a point - that the US is willing to intervene in other nations so long as we are hypocrites about it and make sure we look like the "bad guy" - but now that there's an instance where intervention makes sense and we would look like the "good guys" we are unwilling to do much of anything about it.

I was condemning the US's policy in my OP of this very thread.

We could go through my posting history here and dig out condemnations of the US's Drug War, War on Terror, all the crap we did in the Cold War, our internal policies on mental health, medicine, nuclear energy, the Judicial or Legislative branches, our media, etc etc. Hell I went on and on about Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Syria, our unholy alliance with the Saudis, etc etc! That's all I do here half the time is condemn my own nation!

Here, I'll give two good examples of me kickin my own country in the rear (although we could dig up hundreds of examples but these two are sufficient hopefully):

Here I condemn the US foreign policy and point out our hypocrisy

Here I condemn our policies with China, our hypocrisy over the Boxer Rebellion, and the Opium wars etc

You know, there probably isn't anything the US has done in the last 150 years that I haven't condemned at this point?

I totally earned the right to condemn China yesterday over all this crap and point out how the US is a hypocrite for not doing the Right thing here and supporting HK in a bold direct fashion... and I don't think that makes me inconsistent or hypocritical at all.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: UKTruth
Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Agree completely.
China's power is in their economy, and without international trade they would collapse overnight.

The rest of the world could recover from economic sanctions against China, but China couldn't. Yes I realize it would cause market crashes around the world but it wouldn't be the end of those markets, because the next few days enterprising investors would buy up all the cheap assets that would survive in a world without China being dominant.

Rubbish! Because of the trade war, western companies are already suffering. If China fell, so would alot of countries in the West!

It's not rubbish. You think we "Need" China? Are you serious? Most of their goods aren't very good, it's crap! We can produce all our own stuff between the rest of us without them. We don't need 95% of these "goods" anyways.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Where do you get the idea I'm condemning every Chinese citizen? I didn't condemn a single one of them individually. I'm condemning "China" which in this context I meant the "PRC" and the Communist Party leadership specifically.

And their psychotic govt needs all the condemnation we can muster. They are extremely repressive, they don't even know what's going on around the world because of all the censorship in their media and their internet.

The way that China treats it's neighbors is worse than how the US treats it's neighbors - and that's freakin scary because we are pretty bad.

a reply to: muzzleflash

If you actually read my post, I never mentioned you ignoring western governments and the horrors they have done. I was talking about how you mention "chinese people" hence the reason I said do you condemn every person, including yourself when it comes to the horrors your own government has done.

I do not like people people putting people of a nation in the same basket, because of their government. Its primitive thinking and of of the reasons we go to war and have conflicts.

originally posted by: makemap
a reply to: sine.nomine
Right now the Chinese gov is doing everything right.

That's impossible.
No govt in history can do "everything right", it's against the laws of nature itself.
Govt by it's very nature does things wrong most of the time.

And in context of HK right now, the Chinese govt is completely full of crap.
They have been paying the Triads to go beat the living crap out of peaceful protestors and then turn around and blame the protestors for inciting violence?? BS!!!

They have a stranglehold on the situation there, they order the HK police to beat the protestors too. They are behind all of the violent escalation in this situation.

The protestors were very peaceful considering that there were hundreds of thousands of them at once out there protesting! It's probably the most peaceful protests we've seen in modern history considering the numbers of them.

Of course not every person in half a million protestors is going to be peaceful, that comes with the territory of inflamed emotions and political intrigues. But I can assure you that common sense dictates that the Chinese govt has been planting agent provocateurs in with the crowds to incite and justify the police brutality.

They have been identifying and punishing people individually by going to their houses and attacking them when they are alone, they have been destroying people's careers in retaliation for voicing their opinions against the PRC leadership, and they are disappearing people right and left over this.

How anyone could say the PRC is doing the right thing, I have no idea. It sounds like pure insanity to even suggest such a thing! I cannot believe you'd even suggest it.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: UKTruth
Bringing China to it's knees is very very easy.
Shut off their access to worldwide markets. They're done as soon as that happens.

Agree completely.
China's power is in their economy, and without international trade they would collapse overnight.

The rest of the world could recover from economic sanctions against China, but China couldn't. Yes I realize it would cause market crashes around the world but it wouldn't be the end of those markets, because the next few days enterprising investors would buy up all the cheap assets that would survive in a world without China being dominant.

Rubbish! Because of the trade war, western companies are already suffering. If China fell, so would alot of countries in the West!

It's not rubbish. You think we "Need" China? Are you serious? Most of their goods aren't very good, it's crap! We can produce all our own stuff between the rest of us without them. We don't need 95% of these "goods" anyways.

This is where you are showing you know pretty much nothing on this. All chinese products being rubbish is a fantasy made by people who do not like the fact that chinese companies are making these products. Do you know how much stuff is made from China? I bet a lot of stuff in your home is made in China, just like my home. From your tv to your phone. Are they breaking all the time?


Do you think western people will do that work, earning the same money? Don't be silly! Earnings will go up, prices will sky rocket, companies eill go out of business. You need to look at this logically.