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Mental Illness ....why?

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posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Its basically an excuse.

blame mental illness and video games because we don't want to talk about the possibility that the politics of divisions and free access to guns might have more to do with shootings.

Some people who commit these crimes are mentally ill but most of the time they're just a bad man with a gun, pretending that its a mental health issue is a bit of a distraction from the real issue, a lack of gun control.


why is it back to the guns? We even have a real life example of a guy killing with a knife just the other day. The tool used to do the bad thing isn't the bad guy here, it's the guy who did bad things. Why not try to find out WHY he did bad things.

And why haven't the millions of other gun owners gone on a rampage and killed innocent people? They have guns too?




posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Several of the mass shooters had the most severe forms of mental illness.

The fact nobody knew they were collecting guns and could alert people properly is obviously a problem for many reasons.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I am not really interested in a gun control debate all am saying is that I believe that a lack of gun control is a bigger factor in these shootings than mental illness.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: SocratesJohnson


I agree that the killers are crazy AF but the mental illness angle I just don’t buy


I just read this morning that the Dayton shooter had a history of violent behavior and he told an ex-girlfriend that he suffered from Bipolar Disorder and OCD.

I haven't seen too much follow-up on the El Paso shooter.


edit on 8-8-2019 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Think about all the chemicals in the water, that we splice into our vegetables, pump into our meat, or the drugs we give to our kids so they are more well behaved.

With all of that is it really so hard to think we are becoming more unbalanced.



Ahh yes nostalgia... I too wish to return to the "Good Ol Days"...



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

what gun control would work? And how did you arrive at this conclusion?



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

what gun control would work? And how did you arrive at this conclusion?


Dude debating gun control on ATS is like debating abortion on a pro-life forum not something I am that interested in waisting my time with.

Am just popping into state my opinion that mental illness isn't at the big factor causing all these gun deaths, I believe its the lack of gun control.

If you disagree that's fine, have it, you can have your opinion.
edit on 8-8-2019 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




Dude debating gun control on ATS is like debating abortion on a pro-life forum not something I am that interested in waisting my time with.


Yet you keep posting "your opinion" but when asked to respond to counterarguments you "dont want to waste time".



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Boadicea

Several of the mass shooters had the most severe forms of mental illness.


Of course, as I noted, mental illness is definitely part of it. I'm just saying it's not all of it. You did qualify your statement with "most severe" so I'm assuming you recognize there are nuances and variations and differing extents of mental illness. Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as mental/emotional impairment, or immaturity, or even stupidity? I'm not sure where you're going with this.


The fact nobody knew they were collecting guns and could alert people properly is obviously a problem for many reasons.


Yes, that is a problem. An even bigger problem is when someone's violent tendencies are ignored, rationalized, excused and even protected. The Parkland shooter... the Pulse shooter... the Dayton shooter... All were known and reported aggressors and abusers to family, friends, community and law enforcement officials. But nothing was done. Worse, many were protected by those responsible for protecting the community.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I am saying if your adult child is hearing voices the age is no longer a factor people should be helping someone who has absolutely no grounding in reality.

It's a little bit of a polite dig on your tone of personal responsibility not being a real thing to discuss with extreme situations that re occur.

I mean at some point we need to discuss how society itself maybe evolving in a way we need to change or direct a little.

But yes mental illness is pretty vague...I agree there are certain levels of behavioural issues.
edit on 8-8-2019 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:42 AM
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Gallows for murderers. Public display hangings with the bodies incinerated, no exceptions. Or something so fearful that it causes primal fear as Heff pointed out.

If there are no penalties beyond an 8x10 room, there is no reason to fear the ultimate punishment.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: Plotus

Well many of them kill themselves so there goes that..



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:58 AM
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Then non-action ?



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: Plotus
Then non-action ?


Right because the two options are either nothing or public hangings.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Boadicea

I am saying if your adult child is hearing voices the age is no longer a factor people should be helping someone who has absolutely no grounding in reality.


Well... um... duh! What exactly did I say that made you think I believe otherwise? I noted many distinctions on many levels. At no time did I suggest that people OF ANY AGE should not be treated appropriately for mental health issues. Rather, I noted three shooters whose aggression, violence, and mental issues were known and reported and were not addressed properly by the authorities.


It's a little bit of a polite dig on your tone of personal responsibility not being a real thing to discuss with extreme situations that re occur.


That honestly makes absolutely no sense to me. Not only in context of what I have said, but in and of itself. I never addressed personal responsibility -- especially in terms of people who are mentally ill/impaired/immature. The only ones I took to task for neglecting and failing their responsibilities were government officials and authorities who have failed to do their duty. That's it.

I truly don't know if you're making that "polite dig" because you think I'm saying that everyone -- including the severely mentally ill -- should be taking "personal responsibility"; or if your "polite dig" is that you think I am saying that everyone -- including the severely mentally ill -- should not/can not take "personal responsibility."

I will try to clarify my position: There are many and varying levels of mental illness, impairment and immaturity. There are many underlying reasons and causes. There are many and varying levels of understanding of mental issues. There is no one-size-fits-all diagnoses, much less cure.


I mean at some point we need to discuss how society itself maybe evolving in a way we need to change or direct a little.


As in maybe recognizing and acknowledging and addressing the many root causes (not to mention escalation and perpetuation) for various levels of mental and emotional issues resulting in violence against others? Or maybe recognizing and acknowledging that there are no one-size-fits-all diagnoses, treatments and solutions? Or maybe by recognizing and acknowledging that there are distinctions and differences to be made between mental and emotional issues, including between mental/emotional illness, impairment and immaturity? Or by recognizing and acknowledging and addressing how many of the mentally/emotionally challenged slip through the cracks (a mile wide) due to malfeasance and dereliction of duty on the part of those authorities responsible?

Your "polite dig" isn't having the desired effect. I have made many distinctions between conditions, causes, and solutions. No blanket statements. So I don't even recognize myself in your "polite dig."



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: odzeandennz




People had mental illness before guns were invented.


No not really, the pseudoscience of mental illness/psychiatry has only been around about 100 years.

They're still looking for that elusive chemical imbalance.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 11:30 AM
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It’s because people are becoming more disconnected from reality more then ever. Social media has taken away real relationships. People isolate and brood. The world moves on leaving many behind. The family unit is death rattling. People are concentrated more then ever this builds stress and anxiety. The media tries to divide the masses at every turn creating a us vs them mentality. Poor education causes confusion coupled with an inability to cope with ones internalized feelings. Drug and violent culture is glorified as is the criminal and gang life style. All these factors serve to erode people’s sense of well being.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson


edit on 8-8-2019 by Athetos because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

what gun control would work? And how did you arrive at this conclusion?


Dude debating gun control on ATS is like debating abortion on a pro-life forum not something I am that interested in waisting my time with.

Am just popping into state my opinion that mental illness isn't at the big factor causing all these gun deaths, I believe its the lack of gun control.

If you disagree that's fine, have it, you can have your opinion.


OK, you are totally and completely wrong. have a great day.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
Gallows for murderers. Public display hangings with the bodies incinerated, no exceptions. Or something so fearful that it causes primal fear as Heff pointed out.

If there are no penalties beyond an 8x10 room, there is no reason to fear the ultimate punishment.

They've tried that numerous times in the past. What generally happens is that it starts out as a kind of public spectacle or entertainment, where people have a little party and go see the heretic or witch or royal get their heads sliced off or they're burned at the stake in the town square. Some of the condemned will sometimes make a speech or tell some jokes about the absurdity of the situation. Some will toss curses around. Vendors will set up to sell refreshments. A good time for the whole family. The public's lust for blood (and justice, sort of) is sated.

But then... you get some poor person who begs and pleads for their life, asking for compassion and forgiveness, and they are a real turd in the punchbowl. After a while it becomes a sad spectacle of people being torn apart for dubious reasons, and eventually people lose interest.

And here's the thing. It's not a deterrent. Never was. People generally do crime because it's the most economically efficient way to get what they want. Most of the time it's not because people are evil, it's because they're making rational decisions about how to go about meeting their needs. And even people who are "crazy" have this rationalization, which from their perspective makes sense. "Nobody is doing anything about 'X,' so I guess I'm going to have to do it myself and show them." The only thing that happens when harsher punitive measures are imposed is that the perps go deeper underground or they work to make a bigger bang when the blow themselves and their targets up.

So while yes, we all would love to be in an audience where some poor, confused kid is partially hanged, then cut down and disemboweled so we can be covered in the splatters of their viscera (what happened to folks who got in King Henry VIII's way), it really doesn't solve the problem.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Plotus
Gallows for murderers. Public display hangings with the bodies incinerated, no exceptions. Or something so fearful that it causes primal fear as Heff pointed out.

If there are no penalties beyond an 8x10 room, there is no reason to fear the ultimate punishment.
.....People generally do crime because it's the most economically efficient way to get what they want. Most of the time it's not because people are evil, it's because they're making rational decisions about how to go about meeting their needs....


Hmmm, almost like they had a role model throughout their childhood. An entity that simply invades and takes what it wants. Or if invasion isn't feasible, creates blockades and embargo to starve out the populace. The world has so much of our resources buried underneath their land it just isn't fair.

Maybe they are simply implementing the rule of the land as it currently stands and as it has stood for a while now. Invasion and slaughter isn't wrong, it is just a good business decision.




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