It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

It Is Possible To Have Red Flag Laws That Respect Due Process

page: 2
6
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 11:22 AM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

We don't need two laws that are supposedly only in existence to stop sick people from hurting themselves and others.

That's the number one most simple reason why RF laws aren't required.

As for legal costs.... That's an entirely new set of problems. We are no where near being able to implement that sort of program. Besides then we get into the Govt paying if they lose and then DAs deciding that they have bigger fish to fry that they have a higher likelihood of winning and thus not even bothering with the RF tips.

ETA I think you might have missed my point. any legal action stemming from an RF court case will cost the "Defendant" time and money which is a penality that no not guilty plea will ever rectify. Also I should not have to depend on my own legal expertise to defend myself against the power of the govt. Everyone is entitled to represention when their rights are at risk whether I pay for that represention or the public defenders office does.
edit on 7-8-2019 by Identified because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 11:58 AM
link   
a reply to: Identified

A lot of innocent people get accused and have to defend themselves in our court system. It's not fair, but neither is life.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 12:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

Because it happens with other Laws is not a reason to add further completely arbitrary ways a person can find themselves in front of a judge.

It shows that these laws can be more easily abused to punish a person without ever having to gain a conviction.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 12:58 PM
link   
Red flag laws operate under the exact same parameters as emergency protective orders for domestic violence.

Should we get rid of both ?

In Maryland over a three-month period 302 petitions were filed for temporary confiscation . Only 148 were granted Data from other states report’s that in many of the cases granted the respondent was a no-show .

I can’t find any data on how often EPO‘s were granted by the court. But from observation of people I know it was a lot more than 50% of the time .

In all states 17 states where these policies have been in effect since 1999 there are criminal statutes for abusing the system with false allegations.

just about every time there’s an outbreak of idiots shooting people the left gets a little more of what they want chipping away at our rights. Whether it’s an assault weapons ban in th 90s, changing the age for purchases of guns or limiting magazine capacities . They get some scrap that affects every single gun owner in America.

Red flag laws only target potential powder kegs getting ready to blow . They do so in most cases in a temporary manner .

Liberals are going to get their pound of flesh in one way or another. Should it affect everyone or just the potential threats where it might actually do some good ?

I’ve been pro second amendment all my life and fought against the erosion of our rights.

But then I’m pragmatic and honest also . So I try to say what’s exactly on my mind without bias

When kids are being slaughtered like baby seals and citizens are becoming cannon fodder. I have no problem targeting people who have no business owning a weapon in the first place .

If all of the temporary seizures across the nation only stopped one School attack in which 20 children are murdered .

It’s worth it to me .

Especially when you put yourself in the shoes of those children’s parents .


Remember they are targeting the nut jobs. The other 99.9999999999999% of gun owners aren’t in any jeopardy .



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 02:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

When my mom was alive, she did everything in her power and with considerable expense, to accuse and prove I was nuts. She wanted to take my kids. She called the cops on my son's BB gun, which was given to him by his dad. Luckily, the police and the court system proved her wrong. But if she could have used a red flag law on me, she absolutely would have.

These laws nauseate me.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 05:37 PM
link   
a reply to: katfish

It sounds like she did use them, you just had your due process available. That's what the OP is about, if we keep due process intact, red flag laws aren't all that scary. Annoying, sure. But pretty tough to abuse with results.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 05:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Fallingdown

Then I'd refer you to my other post. The patriot act was supposed to be great, too.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 05:43 PM
link   
a reply to: Identified

I'm not saying it's a reason to add other laws, I'm saying you can't base your consideration on that because it can happen with any law. People are falsely accused of domestic abuse, pedophilia, drug use, etc and have their kids taken from them. Does that mean we should let the kids stay with these people until they are found guilty?

Now red flag laws are different, leaving kids with a possibly abusive parent causes irreparable harm to the kids. Leaving weapons with a possibly crazy person will likely only result in irreparable harm to that person (suicide is the #1 thing these laws have prevented). My thoughts that you should be able to end yourself combined with respect for due process makes leaving due process intact a no-brainer for these laws.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 08:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

Yes of course the standard reply when it comes to rights .

Red flag laws in some form or another have been in affect since 1999.

Not to mention if these laws were challenged and found unconstitutional . Domestic violence victims would no longer be able to get a emergency protection order . They would have to go through a long process . Which defeats the purpose of a cooling down period which benefits both sides .

Let’s make this a little more personal instead of looking at it in the abstract .

If a wife divorces man with a history of mental illness and credibly claims that he’s had a gun to her head threatening to kill her or more than one occasion .

Would you want a dangerous lunatic to keep his guns ?




edit on 7-8-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 11:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

If confiscating guns from ANYONE , saves ONE life , then your argument is mute .

If , after a suitable period , the clown needs his gun back … then so be it .


Otherwise the insanity of hugging your machine gun is just that ..






posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 12:41 AM
link   
a reply to: radarloveguy


If confiscating guns from ANYONE , saves ONE life , then your argument is mute .

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

Red flag laws depend on anonymous tips, something that has been abused and continues to be abused to this day. When someone can make an anonymous tip that brings in law enforcement, the result is a type of legalized social justice... mob justice, if you will. While there are penalties on the books for false tips, they are never used. Firstly, the anonymity factor makes it impossible to even find out who made the tip, and secondly, prosecutors are loathe to enforce them because they think doing do will discourage future tips.

I have the right to face my accuser... unless that accuser doesn't want me to.

Life is important, yes. But life without freedom its not really life at all. It is existence, and there is a difference. At least to me there is. I want to live, but if that life becomes nothing but existence it becomes nothing but torture.

TheRedneck




top topics



 
6
<< 1   >>

log in

join