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The Reason Red Flag Laws And Universal Background Checks Are A Bad Idea

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posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Identified
a reply to: usernameconspiracy


Why wait for government to mandate? You can put yourself on a list right now. Take out an ad in a major newspaper, tweet it out, and call your local police and give them your name, address, picture, list of guns with serial numbers and ammo count.

You'll be on a list real fast. Might not be the list your thinking of but it will achieve exactly the same thing a National Registration will.




LOL , I Can TASTE the Sarcasm in that Post , it Tastes Like VICTORY ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)




posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

another thing is alot of people have more then one gun and dont always keep them in obvious spots , my neighbor for example has bought exactly one gun publicly a high point, the rest he bought all private party and has them hidden all over the house from ak pistols to shotguns and ar 15s. then there is the other aspect once they go for the "red flag laws" they will figure out a good deal of people have off the books guns and push for a registry and we all know how that goes
www.cga.ct.gov...

FEDERAL LAW Federal law does not prohibit states from mandating firearm registration. But it places some restrictions on federal agencies. According to federal law, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS): including the NICS Audit Log, may not be used by any Department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States to establish any system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions or dispositions, except with respect to persons prohibited from receiving a firearm by 18 USC 922(g) or by state law (28 CFR § 25.9(b)(3)). NICS is the federal database used in determining if prospective gun buyers are disqualified from acquiring or possessing firearms under state or federal law. Since 1934, Congress has strictly regulated the manufacture, transfer, and possession of certain classes of firearms. The firearms are regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act (NFA) (26 USC § 5801 et seq.) and the 1968 Gun Control Act, as amended by the 1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act (18 USC § 921 et seq.). With limited exceptions, NFA firearms, including machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, and short-barreled rifles, must be registered with the U.S. Treasury (26 USC § 5841). The Firearms Owners' Protection Act specifically prohibits using information collected on firearms under the act in any registration system. The act states as follows: No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established (18 USC § 926(a)).


add in that federal agencies are mostly prohibited from having a registry you would then need to get each state to do it on its own..... and that would not fly in Montana let alone the bulk of the southern states to name a few



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: Identified
a reply to: Agit8dChop

How exactly will a registry make massacres harder/less frequent?

Your fence analogy makes zero sense.



It wont,
banning guns wont help. People will simply make bombs or use cars - but registering weapons is a no brainer - these weapons can kill multiple people in a single go.
Everyone weapons serial number and a fired round for comparison should be recorded to each owner



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

plus people find way to kill people even when guns are banned ill post a few examples from around the world many with higher death tolls in one instance then all of the deaths from mass shootings this year alone

en.wikipedia.org... we all heard about this one with a truck a 32.acp pistol of all things this man killed 87(counting the killer) and wounded 434 killed most if not all with the truck before cops lit him up

en.wikipedia.org... unknown high jackers killed 100 as they crashed the plane killing 93 passengers and 7 crew

en.wikipedia.org... this one from china which has all of the gun control 17 killed 15 wounded with a vehicle and grenades of all things

en.wikipedia.org...(2010%E2%80%9312) over a two year period so not one incident 25 killed 115 wounded in knife,club,cleaver attacks on chinese schools

en.wikipedia.org... fire killed 44 and wounded free, note this is the only one ive found so far where the perp was never caught

en.wikipedia.org... Sarin gas kills killed 12 and injured 1050 people

en.wikipedia.org... separate sarin attack kills 8 and injures 500

es.wikipedia.org... spain from the 1890s kills 22 and wounds 35 with hand grenades (vastly more popular method in Europe then usa)

en.wikipedia.org... vietnam machetes killed 11 injured 6

en.wikipedia.org... 100 killed 38 injured using 4 bombs and roughly 1300 pounds of home made explosives

en.wikipedia.org... 22 killed at a wedding with a kukuri but was a Gurkha and they are basically walking weapons....

en.wikipedia.org... knives 19 killed 26 injured assassinating most of his disabled victims in there sleep

en.wikipedia.org... 19 killed no wounded used a knife

en.wikipedia.org... chinas version of the killdozer but with actual victims killed
17 killed and over 20 injured with a backhoe + and interesting snippet on how china kept the news out of the media to avoid copy cats

Aftermath The attack followed unrelated attacks on schools elsewhere in China; the Chinese government removed some mentions of the incidents from the internet in China for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[7] The various attacks on anonymous people and an attack on police have resulted in calls for better mental health care, as mental health problems often go undiagnosed and untreated in China.[8] As a result, 550 new mental health clinics were opened and security was increased outside primary schools and nurseries all over China.[9]
so thats chinas response and oddly it seems to make sense and echos lots of what other members have posted for days in the dozens or so threads on the matter

en.wikipedia.org... another knife attack 17 killed 2 injured and promptly executed in front of 10,000 cheering Chinese

small sample mind you just got tired of Wikipedia evil finds a way to commit violence ,in countries that are hard to get guns in they still find them,when they cant use guns they use knives,when they cant use knives they use clubs gas fire explosives or vehicles(which oddly if you count the hijacking have the highest death toll of any one incident,and sarin gas having more wounded then all the school shootings in the usa for the last 19 years with a total of about 468 from 2000-2019)



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 10:48 PM
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a reply to: Agit8dChop

How does anyone knowing John Q Adams, at 100 Main Street owns Serial number 123456 stop massacres?

So, really you have no answer how a Registry will do anything to solve any of this.

I'll tell you what a Registry does. It puts everyone on it on a list that can be used for political/govt persecution, FOIA requested by media (already happened in NY) , sold to businesses and lobbies and leaked to criminals making everyone on it a target to a violent crime.

People suggesting a Registry either have no idea what they are talking about and are saying it for feel good political points, or they know exactly what a Registry does and they fully intend to use it in that manner.

At least you now admitted it won't stop anything, well...sort of admitted. It's a first step.

edit on 6-8-2019 by Identified because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: Identified
a reply to: Agit8dChop

How does anyone knowing John Q Adams, at 100 Main Street owns Serial number 123456 stop massacres?

So, really you have no answer how a Registry will do anything to solve any of this.

I'll tell you what a Registry does. It puts everyone on it on a list that can be used for political/govt persecution, FOIA requested by media (already happened in NY) , sold to businesses and lobbies and leaked to criminals making everyone on it a target to a violent crime.

People suggesting a Registry either have no idea what they are talking about and are saying it for feel good political points, or they know exactly what a Registry does and they fully intend to use it in that manner.

At least you now admitted it won't stop anything, well...sort of admitted. It's a first step.


so why register cars?
why register businesses?
why register anything?

look - i think you need to have a hot tea and just relax a little - you seem pretty agit8d about this.

It was my understand guns were registered anyway, this is why criminals file of serial numbers, isn't it? (I dont know)

A weapon that can indiscriminately kill a dozen people in a few seconds shouldn't be
a) available to anyone with any kind of mental instability
b) not registered

its just common sense and goes towards a better society

I guess, until you've had a family member killed by a psychotic man using a weapon he purchased you wont care.

no offense, but arguing gun control with Americans is like arguing about 'Jewish Rights' with a nazi - no matter how logical you are, they'll still want to tear your head off.. so ill eject myself from this pointless convo.
edit on 6/8/19 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: Agit8dChop

Cars are registered for taxes. Not to keep me from slamming into a crowd - which my registration won't stop anyway.

Businesses- same thing.

You seem to understand very little when it comes to guns, the US Constitution and our laws.

We already have laws stopping people who have been deemed a risk to themselves or others from owning or purchasing guns. No Registry is going to make that better.

I think I went pretty easy on you considering you haven't made a logical example on how a Registry solves any of this.
Bys



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I use the phrase limp is your responses are soft, if you associate that with ED then that's all in your mind.

Your responses still add up to the same thing, you seem to be angry when someone is called out as a white supremacist who announced his intention to kill Hispanics and drove to El Paso to do so. The fact that the number of Hispanics he managed to kill was lower than the number of none Hispanics just goes to show he was as sh!t at doing what he intended to do, not quite sure why you are ignoring the actual facts, you seem to cling to opinion pieces that confirm your own bias, that is of course your choice, but don't forget they are only opinion pieces.



posted on Aug, 7 2019 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted



I use the phrase limp is your responses are soft


*facepalm*
You really thought I didn't understand that? For real?



you seem to be angry when someone is called out as a white supremacist who announced his intention to kill Hispanics and drove to El Paso to do so.


Was he a white supremacist though? Yes he targeted the hispanic community, but at no point did he say it was because of their race. In fact, he says throughout his "manifesto" that it's because they are invading our country much like we invaded america and took over from the native americans. A new form of colonization. That's if he wrote that manifesto at all. The owner of 8chan has said that it was not uploaded by the shooter. So if not, he either had an accomplice or he didn't write it.



The fact that the number of Hispanics he managed to kill was lower than the number of non Hispanics just goes to show he was as sh!t at doing what he intended to do, not quite sure why you are ignoring the actual facts


quoted for irony. The actual facts are that he killed far fewer hispanics than he did whites. You dismiss that fact as him just sucking at what he wanted to do.



you seem to cling to opinion pieces that confirm your own bias, that is of course your choice, but don't forget they are only opinion pieces.


These are the top stories on all of the web sites I posted. They aren't the opinion section. But even if they were that wouldn't matter. The point was, this narrative is being pushed by these networks. Not me.
edit on 7-8-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I hoped you did understand the point about the use of the word limp, you chose to associate it with ED, not myself.


Yes he targeted the hispanic community, but at no point did he say it was because of their race


That wins some kind of award for most oxymoronic sentence in this thread, well done.


quoted for irony. The actual facts are that he killed far fewer hispanics than he did whites. You dismiss that fact as him just sucking at what he wanted to do.


So, given that if the 'manifesto' was written by him, and if his comment about killing Hispanics is to be believed, the fact he shot more non-Hispanics suggests either he was fairly cr@p at what he set out to achieve (unfortunately not cr@p enough, killing anyone, even himself would have been one person too many), or he just ended up doing what so many mass shooters seem to do and started killing at random. You don't know if it was the former or the latter, neither do I, I suggested it may well have been the latter.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 11:02 AM
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So if you are a wife-beater, and your woman flees....

You can get a sleazebag lawyer to issue a "red flag order" against her father and his whole house, because they made you "feel afraid" that she will come after you with one of his guns.


Now you can move in for the kill, and take the time to plan it right, knowing that they don't have any guns.



It might not work. Unless you are a bad cop who is also a wife-beater. because that never happens.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 11:08 AM
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Maybe we could get Lois Lerner to head the federal office of red flags.


When she was at IRS, her department got really good at spotting phony (republican) non-profit agencies.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: ManWhoWasThursday
a reply to: visitedbythem

To be fair I do believe the number of abortions performed annually has gone down, although there are the attempts by the Democratic Party to increase abortions up to the point of birth (or just after in the case of some politicians).

Rereading I recognize this isn't exactly on topic. My point was that the comparison isn't necessarily the best.


Democrats do not want to allow abortions up to birth. What they want to do is to allow life support to be ended for babies that have zero chance of surviving without it. A huge difference that is lost on ignorant folks.



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: Graysen


Maybe we could get Lois Lerner to head the federal office of red flags.


When she was at IRS, her department got really good at spotting phony (republican) non-profit agencies.


Well most of her "flags" won lawsuits afterwards so yes because it worked 😃



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Graysen

Better training and better equipment always is the answer 😃



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 01:14 PM
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Long way to go with 200,000,000 guns in circulation remember only 2 guns were used in Dayton and El Paso combined 😎



posted on Aug, 8 2019 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite

I actually don't have a problem with Red Flag laws, as long as one simple condition is met.

Law enforcement must present evidence before a Judge showing cause that the target is a clear, present and imminent danger to others (or him/herself), and if they meet the burden of proof, an arrest warrant must be issued, then once the arrest is made, charges filed (making terroristic threats, or whatever is appropriate) or psychological eval ordered, and only then can the guns be taken into custody and hel pending the outcome.




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