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The Reason Red Flag Laws And Universal Background Checks Are A Bad Idea

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posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 07:13 PM
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Well sadly, the media has decided it's time to focus on shootings again. Probably didn't like that their precious democratic (lol) party was getting slaughtered. Between the debates, Baltimore, and Epstein it was a bad month for them. Anyway, as is always the case when the democratic, I mean the media, decides to focus on shootings, it's all about gun control. That's the narrative. If you don't want to give up your guns, you're a kid killer. If you support the 2nd amendment, you're an extremist. If you don't believe criminals follow the laws created to stop them, you're a hate monger. If you point out that Chicago has more shootings in a few weekends than there were in all of the mass shootings in the last few years, you're racist.

This time the push is around background checks and red flag laws. Even trump is getting in on the action (likely with ulterior motives of proving the dems don't actually care). But this is the obligatory thread for why these things are bad Ideas.

Remember the patriot act? How it was passed while the massacre of Americans was fresh on everyone's minds? Remember how many people warned they were a bad idea and that eventually the system would be abused? Well, it didn't take even until the end of the bush administration for that to prove to be correct. Of course congress wasn't going to give it up, so obama decided to weaponize it.

See, the patriot act was supposed to be fine. It was supposed to be written to keep our privacy intact, to prevent abuse, and to make everyone safer. That's what we were told. If you disagreed, you hated america and were a criminal. The intentions of the american people, behind allowing the patriot act were noble. But they allowed their fresh emotional wounds to cloud their judgement and see people for the corruptible, power hungry, maniacs that they are.

Red flag laws are the same. No one wants a mentally ill person to have guns, but who decides what mentally ill is? Is it the american psychiatric association? The people who say that playing video games is a mental illness but wanting to chop your dick off isn't (pardon the language)? Will it be the uniparty that decides? You know, the ones that labeled veterans and home-schoolers as potential terrorists? Who among us is uncorruptible? Who among us can handle the power of depriving others of their rights in a way that only those that are truly a threat have theirs infringed upon? We have to remember that human nature will eventually get hold of this law and pervert it for personal gain at the expense of others. Just like they did with the patriot act.

Universal background checks are the other suggestion and they suffer from the same flaw. If every time a gun changes hands the transaction is recorded you have a de-facto gun registry. We all know that registration is followed by confiscation. Even if the people writing the laws and enforcing them today have wonderful, angelic intentions, the people controlling these laws in the future will not (eventually). This is why you can't give an inch. You cannot allow your rights to be diminished even a little bit because it will never cease. There is no amount of control you can give up that will ensure your safety. There is no amount of control over your destiny you can give up that will appease those who want to rule over you. If you cede ground today, they will show up tomorrow asking for more.

And this all goes without pointing out that these solutions don't actually stop anything. The parkland kid was all over the FBI radar, no #s given. These two recent shooters passed background checks because they had no prior record. So these aren't even preventive measures, so why are they being suggested in the wake of these incidents? Unless, of course, the purpose is more nefarious than they claim...
edit on 5-8-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 07:23 PM
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i saw a quote on my fb wall about this today. "when talking about red flag laws think of social media posts .....you dont think the same people that report posts on facebook wont just randomly do the same with redflag laws?"

the main problem i have with red flag laws is that it presumes guilt before trial and could very easily be used as not intended , compare it to what happens with "swatting" where randoms who offended some one in a video game or other online forum get a swat team sent to their house just because some one either wants to troll or get even for what occurred in a online game or social media post they ddint like of all things



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Well said!

Judge Nap was just on Fox News ripping into Red Flag Laws. Let's hope Trump was watching and understands why this is not the answer. Let's hope McConnell holds fast.



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Yup, just the first step on the road to pre-crime and thought police.



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 08:03 PM
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Once they get their foot in the door.....

It reminds me of Bill Clinton saying we want to make abortions very safe, and very rare" Rare my ass! Now its ok, up to dilation! This situation will be just like that. They have a premeditated plan for us. Its the frog in the pot of water, with the temperature being raised one degree at a time. It doesn't even know it is dying.



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

To be fair I do believe the number of abortions performed annually has gone down, although there are the attempts by the Democratic Party to increase abortions up to the point of birth (or just after in the case of some politicians).

Rereading I recognize this isn't exactly on topic. My point was that the comparison isn't necessarily the best.
edit on 5-8-2019 by ManWhoWasThursday because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 08:28 PM
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I don't know how you could possibly implement any meaningful "red flag" laws, without infringing on someones civil liberties, which basically amounts to punishing many for the actions of a very few.

I also find many ppl to be the epitome of hypocrisy when they fein outrage at what happened in OH, for example, yet the casualty toll was less than tge average week in Chicago, and I don't see anyone making grandiose statements over that.

Liberal racism???



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:02 PM
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Red Flags is active in Maryland.

This is what has happened so far.

Maryland officers serving "red flag" gun removal order fatally shoot armed man



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: errck
Red Flags is active in Maryland.

This is what has happened so far.

Maryland officers serving "red flag" gun removal order fatally shoot armed man

Red Flag laws are active in more than a few States
Wonder how many horror stories have been "swept under the rug" ?



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:46 PM
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You are against red flag laws because you don't know how they will be implemented? I hope they follow some kind of scientific and reasonable process. One of the recent shooters drew a knife on a clerk at the gun store. He told the police about it, but that's all that happened.

My neighbor is insane and saw visions of me threatening to kill her in hell. She then threatened to kill me in retaliation. The week before, she was trying to get me to buy her a gun with her money. She couldn't because she is mentally ill and not allowed to own a firearm in my state. I think this may have protected me from getting shot. I can see it being reasonable to deny her access to firearms.

You are against background checks because you think it will lead to gun registration, and then confiscation? I don't think this will happen. I certainly wouldn't agree with the mass confiscation of guns. If anyone tries anything like this, I will be sure to speak out. I don't see a problem with background checks.
edit on 05pmMon, 05 Aug 2019 21:47:26 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Politicians could rewrite red flag laws to include due process. Trump was advocating for red flag laws today, but he was sure to emphasize the "due process" part.

I believe this would be a type of protection order that would temporarily take away access to firearms. I got a protection order against my neighbor last week. The court has to successfully serve her papers, and then she has the chance to show up in court to tell her side of the story. So far, she's been dodging getting served.

I would suspect that the person served the gun confiscation notice would have the chance to appear in court, just like my neighbor has the chance to. It is also reasonable to take the guns away before the court hearing, as the law would serve no purpose otherwise.

Maybe the police arriving at the scene could assess the situation independently of the caller and decide to go forward with the notice or not? That way, it isn't only up to the caller.

I would want the gun owner in this situation to be able to appear before the court to present their case, and possibly get their guns back in a timely manner with little to no fees. I would also want there to be a reasonable process to return the guns when the court decides it would be safe to do so.
edit on 05pmMon, 05 Aug 2019 21:57:42 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 05pmMon, 05 Aug 2019 21:58:25 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 05pmMon, 05 Aug 2019 21:59:22 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Red Flag laws presume guilt.

You're supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty of a crime.


It's inherently unconstitutional and I am shocked that it hasn't been challenged by SCOTUS yet.



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 09:56 PM
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Democrats scared a mental health crackdown will land many Democrats in lockup wards !!! The sociopaths and psychopaths are in panic their "groups" will be targeted as mental cases 不不不不不



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Dfairlite

Red Flag laws presume guilt.

You're supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty of a crime.


It's inherently unconstitutional and I am shocked that it hasn't been challenged by SCOTUS yet.



That will be the flip we are no longer innocent until proven guilty just like in the old East Berlin were you were rewarded for turning in those who do not tow the line. We've talked about reeducation camps. Not realizing for 60 years plus the schools have been reeducating our children.



posted on Aug, 5 2019 @ 11:50 PM
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Problem,Reaction,Solution.
Red Flag Laws will be abused to disarm everyone right of Chairman Mao.
Why is it right that the Government only holds the monopoly on violence and yet it is the biggest mass murderer on the Planet of it's own peoples?

If you read the book Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley on the history of Western Civilization you will learn that when the Government becomes more technologically advanced in terms of firearms it turns incrementally Authoritarian and leans towards tyranny.

Trump is prone to knee jerk emotional reactions and i don't think he is as good at 4D chess as everyone thinks,this worries me as i can see him slowly capitulating by being hen pecked into submission believing he is serving the publics best interest by those with deceptive Machiavellian intentions.



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite


Well sadly, the media has decided it's time to focus on shootings again


And that's sad in what sense?

What a stupid opening line, kind of made what was to come inevitable.



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 06:31 AM
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The problem isn't people with mental issues with guns, it is they are shooting the wrong people.



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 07:47 AM
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posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

First off, Police certainly do not have any business deciding if someone should lose a Right or Liberty.

Now on to the Judicial Branch, The issue is Courts don't ever want to hear on the 10 o clock news, "Mr Johnson was brought in for a Red Flag Check and Judge So-and-so decided he wasn't a threat and his guns were returned the next day. Three days later he used one of those guns to kill his wife and kids." So they decide to take a person's guns a tell them they can appeal knowing going through an appeal takes months if not years and judges are often willing to take their chances on an appeal because other judges also don't want to hear the news. We also already have long backlogs in our court system. Even if we slot Red Flag "defendants" in first that still isn't fair "due process" and will still take weeks in most cases.

And lastly, we have "due process" as well as "innocent until proven guilty." Red Flag Laws aren't based on a person commiting a crime for which they can defend themselves. They are laws based on what someone might do because they are acting weird or bothering their neighbor. It is extremely difficult to prove you won't do something in the future, besides it is the very antithesis of our Constitution.



posted on Aug, 6 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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Schools these days are very very sad. Have none of you ever read "The Scarlet Letter"?

red flag laws are the begining of tyranny in the USA, and WILL be used as a weapon as soon as it is passed federally.

I don't like gun violence, but I understand it, the frustation, the "I have no solution" to what ever problem is accuring.

if you look at the gun violence and the response to it, it explains gun violence.

there is nothing you can do. You can ban guns, (there will still be guns) you can have gun free zones ( which the crazies will target) looking for a solution is frustrating.

makes one almost feel like the guy with a gun and no solution to the issue huh

that is what makes nuts go gun crazy in the first place.



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