Fear of poor people, but reality being so different

originally posted by: Silure
a reply to: opethPA

My experience is those who have never experienced poverty compared to those who have, often seem less prone to help others who are on their arse.
Again though, purely based on anecdotal experience of my life.

Can just agree to disagree then..

You aren't going to convince me that people who have struggled financially are somehow intrinsically better than people that haven't just like I'm not going to convince you that people who are wealthy are just as capable of compassion as someone who isn't wealthy.

a reply to: opethPA

Oh gosh no, I'm making no such claims! 👍
But read my musings as you would a mate you chill and have a smoke with, just observations.
If you disagree with anything specific then just please do quote it and I'll explain myself 😂

There are people who are poor due to unfortunately circumstances in their lives and then there are people who are poor because they are reactionary sociopaths who don't like anyone telling them what to do and they prefer to live/scam off the system because it's simply easier for them than working for "The Man."

It would be nice if there was an easy way to separate the two types, however, the sociopaths are really good at lying and ruining it for the people who honestly need help to get out of a bad situation.

originally posted by: opethPA
My experiences in life are that being poor does not make people any more noble just like being rich does not make people any more horrible.

People are who they are and chances are having or not having money only increases the scale of those traits in people.

In reality we need to treat each person individually because you will find all types among all sections of society.

Assuming things never ends up well.

Everyone is different so knowing this is the best approach.

Crazy real world stuff, but to island mates, be excited, be free, chase the fresh air of liberty, run with us ffs, tribes of these islands! 😂👍😎

a reply to: Blue Shift

Mate, I felt sad reading your thoughts

originally posted by: Silure
a reply to: Blue Shift

Mate, I felt sad reading your thoughts.

It's a sad situation. I didn't grow up in a family with a lot of money, and I know that poverty can cripple your whole life worse than a disease. My people weren't bad. But damned if I didn't rub elbows with some poor people who actually were bad on purpose. Real bottom-feeders. And they all had the same attitude, which was that the world owed them a living, the world should be happy that they're getting high, and "you can't tell me what to do, man," all the while they're groveling on the street for spare change thinking they're being slick and getting away with something.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Star for optimism!!!
Don't know each others background but I can see a brother when he is front of me!!!
Bang on dude, you are a survivor not a wailer 👍😂

a reply to: Silure

I was homeless for a few years in Nashville TN, and I had never gone through any of that before so I just simply didn't know how hard life was when you have no support or a home to go to. I didn't even get govt assistance, not even food stamps. I was fighting all these legal battles and had jumped from job to job, I had like a dozen jobs but couldn't keep one because of the circumstances. I had no place to shower and slept on concrete at a church that turned a blind eye and let me get away with crashing on their property.

Anyways, the point is - people do stereotype and judge you for being super poor. Here's what I did to get around that.

I would wear a business suit with a blazer, the churches gave away nice cloths so I chose these suits and nice Italian leather shoes because none of the homeless people ever took them. It was easy to find my sizes.

Well, get this, I could sit all day long working on my court documents and doing research at cafes like Panera or Starbucks or etc, and no one ever bothered me because I was wearing a suit. I wouldn't even buy anything and they'd offer me free stuff often.

I'd see a homeless guy wander in, looking dirty, carrying all these shopping bags with his junk in them - and he'd try to buy some coffee or something - and they'd kick him out immediately!

So they'd let me hang out ALL day long without buying anything, yet they'd make the homeless guy leave though he wanted to buy something!

It was all cuz of how I dressed and presented myself. The way I talk to people. I always acted like I knew what I was doing and "belonged there". They judged me purely on appearance and let me get away with it.

I'd never bother anyone or ask for any handouts, which also helps a lot. Bothering customers is an automatic 'get the hell outta here'. Surprisingly, I was offered tons of handouts as a result. I got to know the workers at these places and they never found out I was homeless, I hid it from everyone at my own detriment.

The reason I couldn't keep any jobs is because of my legal situation in combination with the fact I had no place to get cleaned up and I absolutely refused to step foot in the shelter because they were going to make me forfeit my laptop and they wouldn't return it when I left either. It was a really stupid rule that basically shut me out of getting their help.

I've gone days without food, lived on just a few dollars here and there. I did find a few churches that gave out free meals and used them to survive, but since they only do certain days of the week or were way too far across town (and I could rarely afford bus passes) I would usually eat a meal only once every 2 days or so.

I realize people will say "you should have done this or that" or "you could have got this or that from whoever" but I've been down that road plenty of times and they just simply don't understand the battles I was fighting and don't understand the physical logistics of the situation I was in. I couldn't have done that or gotten that, I tried and had to make the best decisions I could at the time. I did the best I could.

I learned to not care what other people think to an extent (as long as I can do what I need to do and be where I need to be) because they simply didn't walk in my shoes or have a clue what I was up against. I also learned how shallow and superficial everyone is and wearing a business suit tricked virtually all of them. I don't think anyone really figured it out, except the church people I got meals from who knew as it was obvious to them.

It's worth pointing this out in your thread I think. I lived it, I know what's up. Most people don't have a clue what it's like to go through hell and their opinions/suggestions are completely detached from reality.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Silure
a reply to: Blue Shift

Mate, I felt sad reading your thoughts.

It's a sad situation. I didn't grow up in a family with a lot of money, and I know that poverty can cripple your whole life worse than a disease. My people weren't bad. But damned if I didn't rub elbows with some poor people who actually were bad on purpose. Real bottom-feeders. And they all had the same attitude, which was that the world owed them a living, the world should be happy that they're getting high, and "you can't tell me what to do, man," all the while they're groveling on the street for spare change thinking they're being slick and getting away with something.

I get it, I really do.

That's why I avoided almost all homeless people on purpose. Many of them are conartists and criminals *on purpose* and will refuse help. Like one guy I asked "would you take a house if I gave you the deed and a key and paid your bills and taxes?" and he said "hell no man, I'd rather live on the streets!". I was so blown away with the insanity of his response, like why the hell would you CHOOSE this??!!

I purposely did everything I could to be the exact opposite of these people. I refused to ask for change and I refused to 'fly a sign'. I'd rather starve than be an annoying bum. I felt like I'd get comfortable in my living hell and might stop bothering to fight my way out of it.

There's a reason people don't trust homeless people. It's partly based on stereotypes but like 75 to 90% of the time it's actually accurate. You can't leave anything out that isn't nailed down because they steal stuff constantly. Yet being around rich people (like college kids) you can leave your laptop and phone laying there for hours and no one will touch it (because they already have their own stuff and don't need 20$ from a pawn shop).

A lot of people would say to me "well now you know what it's like to be homeless, will you do charity work to help them in the future?" and I'd always say "Hell no I won't. I'm going to help paraplegics or burn victims instead." Why? Because most of these people are abusive and dishonorable. Not all, but a vast majority are.

You cannot help someone who has no plans to better themselves. You can't lift someone up who literally plans on jumping back into the pit (for whatever God awful reasons in their head) the next day. Most of them simply Love the boozing and doping and can't imagine life any other way.

It's crazy # man. I kid you not. I seen it firsthand.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Mate, your story...#ing brilliant!!! 👍👍👍
Proper smiled reading that, same in my world ☺️
Prosecution top tale! 😁

I fondly remember my time being homeless. The generosity of strangers was astonishing; But it was a different time then, back in the hippie days. Menial Jobs were plentiful and people were happy. Now depression and dread infects everything it touches. I find it ironic, a cyber paradise of opportunity, but even the affluent seem to be waiting for the other shoe to drop unable to enjoy their lives of indulgence.

I'm blessed to be able to give the guys and gals standing at the onramps with signs a few bucks....there but for the grace of God....I too know the demons they battle.

a reply to: Silure

To be fair though, I did actually have more homeless people offer me food than people who had money. Surprisingly enough it's true.

The few homeless I did know would find me shoes or cloths, without me even asking, and bring them to me when I'd see em once a week at a place I'd go get a meal at. They would even give me a few dollars knowing I refused to ask for help. Very few wealthy people spontaneously offered me money or food - though there were a few who figured me out and would give me gift cards or 20$ or whatever, it was rare and far in between.

Overall though I will agree with the OP that homeless or near-homeless broke people are often much more generous and will offer stuff to others in need. Wealthy people when they do offer something often put tons of restrictions on it and try to control the recipient.

There are a lot of reasons why this is so, and each incident is different and has different motives or reasons behind it, but there are a lot of instances of genuine charity.

The homeless people that do offer stuff like this are rarely thieves though. This is an important distinction. The ones that steal constantly almost never have a charitable spirit.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Don’t forget about the sociopaths at the top of the ladder. You can be poor and happy, you can be rich and happy, but the sociopaths are never satisfied.

originally posted by: Silure
a reply to: opethPA

My experience is those who have never experienced poverty compared to those who have, often seem less prone to help others who are on their arse.
Again though, purely based on anecdotal experience of my life.

That's the crux right there in my opinion, it goes both ways, some folks that are born into riches are miserable as they don't know who their friends are as everyone is a potential moocher of their fortune.

Like you though my experience has led me to similar conclusions, i find those with the least generally to be the most generous, it's certainly not the rule though as a percentage of people are just scumbags regardless of their financial position

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I'd forgotten that! Got a couple of mates who made a good coin in life, it's a real ball ache for them trusting folk who may just be mooching off them. Sure I'll borrow a tenner or something to buy a round of drinks, but they are just mates to me, totally get that gig they have to deal with.
...same with girls, like are they just a gold digger or do they really love them? I don't have that problem thank #! 😂

a reply to: Silure

I don't have that problem either, sometimes though I #ing wish I did.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Lmfao! 😂
I've done the spectrum of cash status in my life, never actually been happier or sad whatever the situation, having good people in life is true riches 👍
Sounds cheesy as # but totally true.

a reply to: Silure

No doubt, life's a trip . Perspective is so important, if you can use comedy to deal with pain, you and and everyone around you will be happier for it.

a reply to: Silure

spoke to a homeless man outside tesco today , and he was sitting there, I didnt say anything to him , he was rolling a cigarette
he had this helium balloon under his foot , and it blew away , so I ran and grabbed it for him
he said thanks and was happy I got it for him. I said nothing worse than losing your balloon

he then said, well its not for me , I found it , and a moment ago a woman and her wee lassie walked by me and spoke to me and they asked how I was and gave me cash, So he got this balloon so that when they came back from the NHS place at the end of the road, he'd give this balloon to the wee lassie to cheer her up !

I was thinking , that man has nothing, and there he is thinking of some poor wee lassie who is in for something health related.

Such a nice heart , very humble

but not all homeless are humbled by their experiences, many of them become bitter at society and people who have what they still feel they need "material wealth" and they become angry and jealous.

Its not all amazing heart warming moments , there are horrific things that go on .

the thing that is most horrific is how society treats homeless people, they effectively no longer have rights and get treated worse simply by being homeless