US forces shoot at car containing freed Italian hostage and kill Italian secret service agent.

Originally posted by negativenihil
Ugh, i really hope some more information comes out on this story.

there is too little data to really direct blame, and unfortunately i fully expect this story to be buried (at least here in the US) within 2 weeks time. By then we'll all be distracted by some other event and im sure this will be long since forgotten.

Actually, It is being "fairly well" reported on Msnbc and foxnews both on their websites as well as their TV stations.
I agree, there needs to be more info released before anyone can point fingers. The most info at the moment is that the French are reporting that the Italian SS forgot to submit paperwork or even to notify the US military.
I find that extremely unusual as it is coming from the French Embassy. The French have been fairly Anti-American for years.

Ace,

Read the reply above you. The driver ignored warnings. Flashing lights, arm waving and warning shots. Then the driver continued at high speed. Sorry Ace, the driver made a fatal error in judgement. That guys lack of judgment could have gotten 3 other people killed in that car. You should thank those soldiers for stopping the car before the rest were killed.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by skippytjc]

So he cant voice his conclusion based on the information given.
Doesnt everyone do this?

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Who says there were terrorists in that car?
They were inteligence agents.

. . . Not very good ones, apparently.

How much intelligence does it take to realize that driving at high speeds toward a military checkpoint is not a good idea?










BTW, you misspelled intelligence.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
. . . Not very good ones, apparently.

How much intelligence does it take to realize that driving at high speeds toward a military checkpoint is not a good idea?

He had been involved in previous hostage releases and probably did know what he was doing. I hope some video gets released of this incident.
If traffic cops have cameras, surely the checkpoints in Iraq should have cameras.

BTW, you misspelled intelligence.

That happens sometimes if you type fast while you're really pissed off.

I remember hearing this same type of crap when the Marine shot that wounded Iraqi.

Now, I love my country and I support our troops. But damn, what will it take for some of you to realize that they do fock up sometimes?

Sure, it's brutal out there. Check it, I bet no one remembers the troops who made the Iraqis jump into a river for violating curfew. But that's all gravity, I guess.

Look, I know having whips blow up all around you daily is gotta be crazy, but you still have to use discretion. Ain't the troops supposed to be TRAINED for killer combat situations? Citizens like me would obviously panic easily and start blasting fools, but those are supposed to be trained military men.

I would dismiss this article as typical anti-US bias if it weren't for all the torture our people are doing over there. IMO, blowing up cars and killing innocent bystanders has NOTHING on raping women, beating down kids, threatening devout Muslims with hookers, pulling out nails, etc. You can't lament "insurgent" tactics when you're doing dirt too.

And if anyone still wants to stay on the insurgent tactics, I want you to think about the 1 ton bombs dropped on "insurgent hideouts." Don't those kill a bunch of innocent people? Oh, I forgot, "We don't do body counts."

Not the first, and probably won't be the last.

Here is another thread about US "friendly" fire...

ATS Thread..US shoot British Officer

Due to the way that ABC is handling the story
U.S. Forces Wound Freed Hostage in Iraq
I have sent the following to their editors. yes I do not expect to see a reply but if by chance I do get one I will display it for you if you want.:
To whom it may Concern,
Re: U.S. Forces Wound Freed Hostage in Iraq

I am writing this to you in regards to the breaking news that you are reporting on your website in regards to the incident in Iraq where our troops fired upon Sgrena U.S. Forces Wound Freed Hostage in Iraq
. It is great that she made it out alive; it is good that you are covering the story. The problem that I have is that the story is extremely biased against our troops!
You do not include any of the information that has already been released (even by the French) indicating that:
1) There were several warning shots fired before our troops actually targeted the vehicle.
2) The vehicle was approaching a check point that has been the target of a number of terrorist attacks.
3) The Italian Secret Service failed to obtaining the proper clearances or communicating with the U.S. forces.

If the Italians had followed any proper procedures, not only would they not have been fired upon but would have received an armed escort! Can you really believe that our troops are so poorly trained, so trigger happy to have risked an incident like this would engender?

There are certain procedures you have to follow when approaching a checkpoint. This is a known by anyone and should have been known by Italian Secret Service Agent, Nicola Calipari. This is the same for any checkpoint in any country manned by any nationality!
By printing such a lopsided accounting of events, you are not only degrading our troops, our government our president (yes I understand that ABC is firmly against Bush) but you are also doing a disservice to your selves. By only printing one side of the news in such a huge story, how do you think your readers / subscribers will feel towards your reporting when every other news agency trumps you!

Do not worry, I do not expect a response and fully expect to have this email go into the File 13 basket, But I had to attempt to open your eyes to show you how your prejudicial outlook towards our present administration is coloring your ability to actually report the news and not just report docudrama.

As Skippytjc mentioned first, the italian car ran way too fast towards the US troops, and (presumably) ignored evident warning signals by said troops before they began to shoot.

On the news it was said that the US troops fired 400 to 500 shots towards the car, one bullet hitting Giuliana Sgrena in the shoulder area, although she was physically protected by the entire body of one italian agent, who died.

The Ita premier, Berlusconi, released these news with a broken voice. Happy for the released journalist, saddened by the loss of the man who saved her life. But he did hint that the US soldiers were doing their job...

This was on the news tonight (I live in Rome). What I cannot understand is WHY did they run so much towards the check point.... She's in the US hospital, her health is not at risk. Her husband Pierre is flying over and hopes to bring her back tomorrow.

In the past weeks there has been an uproar for Giuliana Sgrena, way more than for other past episodes - I personally am not into politics enough to understand or explain why.

On the news it was said that the US troops fired 400 to 500 shots towards the car

400-500 rounds? That is a hell of alot of ammo....and your saying they are not trigger happy? Ok, and Hitler was a Jew.......

Now, now, Stumason, you know they fired 400-500 warning shots...

If they meant to kill someone, they should have fired at least 2000 shots. After all, 400-500 was the warning...

And yes, Hitler was a Jew. LMMFAO!

Hmmm...

Ok...

To recap this...

1) They didn't follow procedures...
2) They came in at a high rate of speed to the check point...
3) They didn't stop after the warning shots were fired...
4) Then they were fired at...

Is this correct ?

If so then the "Intellegence Officers" were to blame, they knew the procedures, and should have filed a "flight plan" of their plans to take the hostage to the air port. letting everyone know what was to happen, espicially a " high profile " person like the hostage...they failed to do so...

Sounds to me like the soldiers were just doing their job, and protecting themselves, from a possible suiside bomber

I wonder why they were driveing fast?
Possibley being chased?

Ok...

1. Why fire so many warning shots?
2. Why doesn't the FBI or any other intelligence agency let local law enforcement know when they are conducting a mission in their jurisdiction?

But hey, they were asking for it. If 4-500 warning shots don't let you know something's up, it isn't the soldiers' fault, is it? Especially if those warning shots "kill" you. Hell of a warning if you ask me...

It's a possibilaty devilwasp...

But... unfortunatly the Media is only reporting their side of this story...

I'm afraid we will not see the true story on this, but who knows...

Originally posted by Carseller4
There are certain procedures you have to follow when approaching a checkpoint.

The only one to blame is the Italian Secret Service Agent breaking the rules.

Exactly, everyone knows that the soldiers have the power to shoot a car that fails to stop at a checkpoint.They should of stopped. The ISSA would of known this why they did not stop is beyond me.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Ok...

1. Why fire so many warning shots?

Lots of shots, lots of attention to you, also flying lead makes you listen.

2. Why doesn't the FBI or any other intelligence agency let local law enforcement know when they are conducting a mission in their jurisdiction?

Because of security risks, why do you think the DEA doesnt alert the PD on all of its ops?
Because some squaddie might blow a guys cover.

But hey, they were asking for it. If 4-500 warning shots don't let you know something's up, it isn't the soldiers' fault, is it? Especially if those warning shots "kill" you. Hell of a warning if you ask me...

Well if you where being chased or just got the hell out a gun fight you would be pretty confused.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Ok...

1. Why fire so many warning shots?

But hey, they were asking for it. If 4-500 warning shots don't let you know something's up, it isn't the soldiers' fault, is it? Especially if those warning shots "kill" you. Hell of a warning if you ask me...

Hmmm...

How do you know how many shots were fired ?

I see now where in the links in this thread as to the amount of shots fired...

Were you there ???

The editor of freed hostage Giuliana Sgrena´s newspaper Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the intelligence agent was killed when he threw himself over Sgrena to protect her from U.S. fire, according to the Apcom news agency in Italy.

Supreme act of selflessness on the part of the intelligence officer. He absorbed the bullets so that she could live. Full story here.

apnews.myway.com...

After the demonstration of 500,000 people in Italy, following her videos accusing the US of destroying Iraq.
Sgrena alive was the last thing that Berlusconi wanted.

There were 4 italian officers in the car. At least one (the one that sacrified his life for Sgrena) was not informed that Sgrena was going to be murdered.

The reason Sgrena was not executed after being injured was that they would have to kill any other officers that were not aware of the plan.

Uh isnt italy in NATO?
If so wouldnt it just be easier to kill her once they guys have got her out of iraq?