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US forces shoot at car containing freed Italian hostage and kill Italian secret service agent.

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posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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They are reporting on Fox News right now that the Italian reporter that was taken hostage was driving in a car with an Italian Secret Service agent and their car was fired at while approaching a US checkpoint in Iraq.

They said that the agent was killed and the ex-hostage was wounded.

Looking for more info right now.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by AceOfBase]




posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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No response from the US but here is a link to the article on FoxNews
Report: U.S. Fires on Freed Journalist



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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Here's an article on the incident:



dailynews

ROME (AP) - A freed Italian hostage was injured and an Italian secret service agent killed Friday after a U.S. armored vehicle fired on a car in which they were riding in Iraq, two Italian news agencies reported.

The Apcom and ANSA news agencies said that Giuliana Sgrena, a reporter for the communist daily Il Manifesto, was in a hospital in Iraq with a shoulder injury. The shooting occurred at a roadblock while the car was heading to the airport, the reports said.

The editor of Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the secret service agent was killed when he threw himself over the freed hostage to protect her from fire, according to Apcom. He also said Sgrena was in the hospital but was not seriously injured.


She survived the hostages but got shot by the most dangerous people in the Middle East, American soldiers.
She could have been killed if that secret service agent hadn't sacrificed his life for hers.

People have defended the deaths of many of the others who were killed by US soldiers at checkpoints in Iraq, saying they could have been trying to kill US soldiers but this incident proves they shoot at just about anyone.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Here is a bit more info



In an interview with Europe Radio 1, French terrorism expert Frederic Helbert quoted intelligence sources in Baghdad as saying the Italians had wanted to evacuate Sgrena from Iraq as soon as possible and had embarked on the airport road, scene of frequent terrorist attacks, without obtaining the proper clearances or communicating with the U.S. forces.

MSNBCNEWS
This may well explain why it occured as the checkpoint has to be on high alert due to all the terrorist attacks.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:21 PM
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good ol' "shoot first, ask questions later" policy!



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Here's an article on the incident:



dailynews

ROME (AP) - A freed Italian hostage was injured and an Italian secret service agent killed Friday after a U.S. armored vehicle fired on a car in which they were riding in Iraq, two Italian news agencies reported.

The Apcom and ANSA news agencies said that Giuliana Sgrena, a reporter for the communist daily Il Manifesto, was in a hospital in Iraq with a shoulder injury. The shooting occurred at a roadblock while the car was heading to the airport, the reports said.

The editor of Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the secret service agent was killed when he threw himself over the freed hostage to protect her from fire, according to Apcom. He also said Sgrena was in the hospital but was not seriously injured.


She survived the hostages but got shot by the most dangerous people in the Middle East, American soldiers.
She could have been killed if that secret service agent hadn't sacrificed his life for hers.

People have defended the deaths of many of the others who were killed by US soldiers at checkpoints in Iraq, saying they could have been trying to kill US soldiers but this incident proves they shoot at just about anyone.


Really? You know 100% of the facts regarding the shooting on the convoy? You must know everything if you are making such strong accusations Ace. Please, so we can be as enlightened as you, explain the REST of the story that the news agencies you quote haven’t shared yet. You must have been there to have such thorough insight, please share your personal experience of this incident so we can be on the same page as you.

Wait...You weren’t there? What? You only know what you read in the article that we all read? Then how Ace do you stand behind your statement? Magic crystal ball? Please clue us in.

The bottom line is you cant. You are making conclusions based on nothing but your hatred for the USA. You are so biased and blinded by that hatred you cannot even wait to see the real facts before you spew your ani-American propaganda.



[edit on 4-3-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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People have defended the deaths of many of the others who were killed by US soldiers at checkpoints in Iraq, saying they could have been trying to kill US soldiers but this incident proves they shoot at just about anyone.


Obviously you were there right? You saw everything leading up to the shooting right? I know you consider Americans evil and all but let’s wait to condemn the soldiers until we have a little more information. k


[edit on 4-3-2005 by Ruins]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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You are making conclusions based on nothing but your hatred for the USA. You are so biased and blinded by that hatred you cannot even wait to see the real facts before you spew your ani-American propaganda.



Well put!


Why don't we just wait until the facts come out before we start throwing around blame. Suits no one to jump the gun.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
The bottom line is you cant. You are making conclusions based on nothing but your hatred for the USA. You are so biased and blinded by that hatred you cannot even wait to see the real facts before you spew your ani-American propaganda.


If this had been an Iraqi who was shot at the checkpoint you probably wouldn't hesitate to say he was a terrorist who was trying to kill the soldiers.

I've seen so many articles of people getting killed at US checkpoints I don't believe they are uncommon and I think they do have a shoot first ask questions later policy.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by skippytjc
The bottom line is you cant. You are making conclusions based on nothing but your hatred for the USA. You are so biased and blinded by that hatred you cannot even wait to see the real facts before you spew your ani-American propaganda.


If this had been an Iraqi who was shot at the checkpoint you probably wouldn't hesitate to say he was a terrorist who was trying to kill the soldiers.

I've seen so many articles of people getting killed at US checkpoints I don't believe they are uncommon and I think they do have a shoot first ask questions later policy.


Cars blow up in Iraq every day killing anybody, Iraqis, Americans, everybody. People die at checkpoints, daily. Americans shoot because they have too when vehicles don’t stop. Ace, even you would shoot a car if it didn’t stop after spending a year watching cars blow people to bits, day after day after day.

I am 100% behind those troops until I have concrete evidence to make me think otherwise. People like you, sitting behind your PC's making all these statements of hatred against the US who have no clue what its like there on the ground, the circumstances that surround these happenings, make me sick. I cannot post here what I think about people like you without getting banned.

I will wait to pass judgment. I will support those brave soldiers. And as long as I do not know the facts, and IF, and only IF, the facts state they did not act appropriately will I change my opinion. Until then those soldiers are heroes.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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There are certain procedures you have to follow when approaching a checkpoint.

The only one to blame is the Italian Secret Service Agent breaking the rules.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Cars blow up in Iraq every day killing anybody, Iraqis, Americans, everybody. People die at checkpoints, daily. Americans shoot because they have too when vehicles don’t stop. Ace, even you would shoot a car if it didn’t stop after spending a year watching cars blow people to bits, day after day after day.


If it's that damned dangerous over there then GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell are you still over there shooting people and dropping bombs after almost two years?

How the hell can Bush go on TV and demand the withdrawal of Syrian troops and secret service agents from Lebanon when it seems he has no plan to ever withdraw US troops and secret service agents from Iraq?



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Carseller4
There are certain procedures you have to follow when approaching a checkpoint.

The only one to blame is the Italian Secret Service Agent breaking the rules.

Thank you Carseller4 you caught what I posted earlier. The Italian Secret Service Ignored protocol, did not identify themselves, did not obtain the proper clearances nor communicating with the U.S. forces.
This is on top of this check point being one of the most dangerous as it has been the target of many terrorist attacks.
Ace of Base, Have you been in any situation where you have had to defend / protect yourself? Have you been in a wartime situation?
By your remarks, I am fairly sure that the answer to both questions will be no.
The troops that man these checkpoints are under orders to protect themselves. If there were not car bomb attacks occuring olmost daily in Iraq, then yes maybe the outcome would have been different.
Also remember, If you (or anyone else) come racing up to a checkpoint in any country, manned by any nationality, the chances of you being shot at are extremely high.
if the Italian SS had followed any of the normal proceedures, then instead of the car being fired they would have been excorted through by armed guards.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by skippytjc
Cars blow up in Iraq every day killing anybody, Iraqis, Americans, everybody. People die at checkpoints, daily. Americans shoot because they have too when vehicles don’t stop. Ace, even you would shoot a car if it didn’t stop after spending a year watching cars blow people to bits, day after day after day.


If it's that damned dangerous over there then GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell are you still over there shooting people and dropping bombs after almost two years?

How the hell can Bush go on TV and demand the withdrawal of Syrian troops and secret service agents from Lebanon when it seems he has no plan to ever withdraw US troops and secret service agents from Iraq?


Great response. I am not Bush and I cannot answer those questions. I also do not support this war. But I do support our troops.

I also need to commend you on your evasion of the question: How do you know so much about this situation as to remark the way you do? You cant answer it because you know nothing that the news hasnt reported. And all your comments are your own opinion spawned from the hate of America within you.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Bush can say that because he is the leader of the biggest.baddest monkey on the planet. Wether that is good is open to interpretation, but i feel safe at night.

There are procedures for these things. This is not a DUI stop in rural Florida, where people try to speed through and you can lay down some nails for them.

This is a MILITARY zone. Follow the riules, and you will not get shot. If it was me, and I was suspicious, I would not have hesitated to fire. Have you now read about all the car bombings in Iraq.

BTW, how was the voting in Iraq, betcha never thoughtit would happen either.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
If it's that damned dangerous over there then GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell are you still over there shooting people and dropping bombs after almost two years?


Listen, it's obvious that your hatred for the USA is coloring your own sense of judgment. No one here will listen when you immediately jump to conclusions pointing the finger at the USA in almost every single post you make.

It doesn't matter that it was an American road block. Any road block set up in that manner for that reason, would have fired on this car.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Hey Ace, you will like this one:

I have a baseless theory generated by nothing but my own mind. Nothing concrete about it other than my speculation. You know, the same stuff you post. Here it is:

How do we know this wasnt done on purpose? Maybe the terrorists deliberatly ignored warnings at that checkpoint WANTING the US soldiers to shoot? Maybe if the Americans killed her they would gain some sort of propaganda edge?

But oh no, not your precious isurgents/terrorists, they are all agels and saints.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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Ugh, i really hope some more information comes out on this story.

there is too little data to really direct blame, and unfortunately i fully expect this story to be buried (at least here in the US) within 2 weeks time. By then we'll all be distracted by some other event and im sure this will be long since forgotten.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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CNN.com reports:

"According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)

U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

Yup, her driver didnt heed the warnings, driving into a checkpoint at high speed. They soldiers are going to shoot 100% of the time under those circumstances. So, although tragic, the soldiers did exactly what they are supposed to do. In essence they did a good job.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
How do we know this wasnt done on purpose? Maybe the terrorists deliberatly ignored warnings at that checkpoint WANTING the US soldiers to shoot? Maybe if the Americans killed her they would gain some sort of propaganda edge?

But oh no, not your precious isurgents/terrorists, they are all agels and saints.


Who says there were terrorists in that car?
They were intelligence agents.
They also were not the frst Italians to be fired at in Iraq.



cbsnewyork
The editor of freed hostage Giuliana Sgrena’s newspaper Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the intelligence agent was killed when he threw himself over Sgrena to protect her from U.S. fire, according to the Apcom news agency in Italy.

Berlusconi identified the dead intelligence officer as Nicola Calipari and said he had been at the forefront of negotiations with the kidnappers. The premier said Calipari had been involved in the release of Italian hostages in the past.

The two others wounded were also intelligence agents, Berlusconi said.

U.S. troops took Sgrena to an American military hospital, where shrapnel was removed from her left shoulder, he said.....

....In a 2003 friendly-fire incident involving Italians, American soldiers in northern Iraq shot at a car carrying the Italian official heading up U.S. efforts to recover Iraq’s looted antiquities. Pietro Cordone, the top Italian diplomat in Iraq, was unhurt, but his Iraqi translator was killed.

Cordone, also the senior adviser for cultural affairs of the U.S. provisional authority, was traveling on the road between Mosul and Tikrit when his car was fired on at a U.S. roadblock, according to an Italian Foreign Ministry official.


[edit on 4-3-2005 by AceOfBase]




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