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The Russia collusion allegations are a classic "Witch Trial"

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posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:08 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Please explain how “Russians” made ME (or in fact ANY person) change their vote from hilary to Trump.

You can’t. Because they didn’t.

People voted FOR Trump not AGAINST hilary. Because they liked Trumps policies and did NOT like Hilary’s

Ze Russians had NOTHING to do with that.

You poor thing.
edit on 31 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:11 AM
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When cNn openly lied and said “Trump calls all Mexicans rapists” then showed a clip of him saying nothing remotely close to that, EVERYBODY abandoned the dEms.

The Russians didn’t do that. The media did
edit on 31 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:14 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Yeah all that Mueller BS that documented no proof only cheap dreck innuendo 🤣

"Oh Goodie Oh Goodie"



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:16 AM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Lumenari

Someone at the Dim debates should ask them to raise their hand if they believe an accused is INNOCENT unless PROVEN GUILTY.


Please tell me of the statute of law, or Constitutional point, that grants an American the presumption of innocence?




Coffin v. United States


That is case-law, it is not a statute, nor is it Constitutional and can be overridden by other case-law.


You are completely clueless how the law works here. Case law *is* law...and the Constitution can be amended and statutes repealed.

You're drawing a pointless distinction.


Proving innocence also violates the 6th Amendment and possibly the 14th 😎



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Let me get this straight, just to clarify.

You believe that Russians influenced the election?


edit on 31-7-2019 by highvein because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

The Master Plan was to have Hillary win and then "expose" Russian interference (amplified x100 by MSM "when" she won) and then use it all against Republicans in the future. I was told they even had 100s of disposable identities set up to "verify" everything.

It was an epic fail of Biblical proportions 😎



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:23 AM
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Look. cHrOnAuT, I do understand that ‘some Russians’ posted some tweets on twitter that were lies about hilary

But BILLIONS of people from all over the world posted tweets and Facebook posts and what have you that were lies about Trump

Totally negating ANY minuscule effect ‘the Russians’ may have had

THAT is why I say ‘the Russians’ did NOT influence the election. They were totally drowned out.

If any ‘influence’ existed it was definitely in the opposite direction you claim it was.

Without the “he’s a racist” lies, it would have been a victory with a margin almost as big as next year’s is going to be.

That’s my belief anyway



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:24 AM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak
And still, no proof of ONE SINGLE PERSON changing their vote from hilary to Trump because they read a Russian tweet.

Surprise


What sort of thing would prove to you that someone changed their vote?

Do you imagine that someone, anywhere, was collecting such data?

Remember the "lock her up" chant? Remember the Obama birth certificate nonsense? Remember the thousands at rallies who were part of that? Those things were from the Russian trolls. The fact that most of what they were chanting about was provably false didn't stop them from parroting it in the thousands. Do you think that they might have changed their votes and because of the stuff they believed to be true because the read it online? There's your proof.



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:24 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut




Please explain how Obama, who believed that Hillary would win the election (like most Dems at the time). Sabotaged his party by letting the Russian trolls denigrate their only chance of retaining government. And remember that the trolls also were anti Obama as much as they were anti Clinton.


He knew she wasn't going to win from the time he told his anti Russia hacking security to stand down. He knew that for her to win he had to do something drastic, but the plan has failed.

If Dems really believe that Russia hacked the election, with no evidence to back them up, I wonder if they will ever hold Obama accountable since he was the Commander n Chief of this mishap?

They can't have their cake and eat it too.



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:27 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
And still, no proof of ONE SINGLE PERSON changing their vote from hilary to Trump because they read a Russian tweet.

Surprise


What sort of thing would prove to you that someone changed their vote?

Do you imagine that someone, anywhere, was collecting such data?

Remember the "lock her up" chant? Remember the Obama birth certificate nonsense? Remember the thousands at rallies who were part of that? Those things were from the Russian trolls. The fact that most of what they were chanting about was provably false didn't stop them from parroting it in the thousands. Do you think that they might have changed their votes and because of the stuff they believed to be true because the read it online? There's your proof.


Do YOU remember the lies about Trump???

If the election was influenced it was influenced AGAINST Trump a whole lot more than it was the other way around

And he still won.
edit on 31 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:27 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut




There's your proof.


Really? Mueller did a better job than you did at showing he didn't have any evidence, but you did better at saying you don't care about that part.



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:39 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
And still, no proof of ONE SINGLE PERSON changing their vote from hilary to Trump because they read a Russian tweet.

Surprise


What sort of thing would prove to you that someone changed their vote?



I'm sure if anyone switched votes and then "heard" all about the Russians, Mueller would have had interviews and 1000s of sworn affidavits cited in the Report. To date, not a single one 🤣🍌🤣



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
And still, no proof of ONE SINGLE PERSON changing their vote from hilary to Trump because they read a Russian tweet.

Surprise


What sort of thing would prove to you that someone changed their vote?

Do you imagine that someone, anywhere, was collecting such data?

Remember the "lock her up" chant? Remember the Obama birth certificate nonsense? Remember the thousands at rallies who were part of that? Those things were from the Russian trolls. The fact that most of what they were chanting about was provably false didn't stop them from parroting it in the thousands. Do you think that they might have changed their votes and because of the stuff they believed to be true because the read it online? There's your proof.


If agents or perhaps independent citizens of a foreign power saying stuff online is "interference", then no nation other than the USA could grant its own citizens the right to free speech online without "interfering in our election".

That has to not be classified that way.

Otherwise it would mean American citizens also didn't have the right to be critical (and/or supportive) of the actions of foreign leaders unless they kept their views off the internet.

It's the inevitable conclusion of that line of reasoning.

Russia has to have the right to tweet to its hearts' content, about whatever it wants. NO MATTER WHAT it does to our elections. Even if it is on purpose.



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 01:56 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Not only that, who are the allegators?

Is that why Trump was speaking about draining the swamp?



I have to ask...

Why do you think you are relevant to the conversation about American politics anymore here?

You're a partisan hack for the Democratic party, which not in favor anymore here.

Is it just some weird thing you do to get negative attention?

Honestly wondering.




My previous post was a little wordplay upon the misuse of the word "allegated" in the OP, instead of the correct word, "alleged".

I support neither the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party but are merely acting as devils advocate against a highly partisan online community that is increasingly unable or unwilling to consider alternate views and gullibly accepts the constant PR spin which is becoming, in Shakespeare's parlance, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"... an appeal to emotion but without any actual truth or credence.

Any actual debate requires that there be opposing viewpoints and I am here for the debate.

As someone with Asperger's, I am fairly emotionally detached from the argument. So insults don't usually get to me and I am not moved by emotional pleas, but rather by rational, systematic, truthful and credible dialogue.

The self congratulatory circle jerk, so they can feel that tiny dopamine hit with every 'star', 'flag', 'like' or 'retweet' they get, appears to me fairly empty. I am sure some assume that is is what ATS is about.

If someone has no other opinion and is just here to tell everyone how incredibly conforming they are, then they actually contribute almost nothing of substance. Their opinions are a waste of online storage and other people's time. Just another 'follower', following.

I have as much right as any other to be here and to debate. I know I have something to offer that is unique and rational.

But I do get negative attention. So do those people without an opinion or a contribution to the debate but just troll. It seems there are many reasons one would be here other than getting soothing to one's personal inadequacy with valueless and unconsidered, easy affirmations.


Touché

I very rarely agree with anything you say but that was very well said.

There is a definite lack of balance on this site and people like yourself, djn, Coin and Silly while obviously bat shyte crazy and wrong most of the time should be respected and even appreciated or else ATS would be a literal echo chamber and a metaphorical circle jerk.

As a fellow Antipodean (I’m Aussie) i always find it disturbing when nationality is brought into the convo to invalidate our point of view.
Maybe the fact we don’t have a horse in the race so to speak gives us a different point of view that might be worth listening to?

I enjoy debating you and even if I don’t agree with you and think you’re a bit NPCish your comments are always articulate and I can see the intelligence behind the comments even if I can’t see it in the comments themselves


Keep doing what your doing mate


P.s I got your original pun straight away and thought it was pretty funny and I didn’t see any malice in it, if you weren’t a known anti Trumper that would have been quite popular.
I started it
edit on 31/7/2019 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:00 AM
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originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: chr0naut

Let me get this straight, just to clarify.

You believe that Russians influenced the election?


Yes.

My wife is very trusting and believes all sorts of crap she has seen on Falsebork. She has been quite angry with me at times when I go online and show her that the posts and advertisements from unknown, unmoderated and unregulated online social media are usually total lies.

Just yesterday she was telling me about this great breakthrough AI quantum computing autotrading bot that Elon Musk was promoting as free to the first 1000 people, was something we had to hurry and get on board.

So I did some digging.

Elon Musk was never involved, they just used his name and picture. There was no AI involved, it was a brokerage somewhere in the Dominican republic. There, of course, was no quantum computing involved either. It wasn't for free they wanted $1,000 US as seed funds. And, get this, they wanted you to buy cryptocurrency, that is what they were trading in!

But my wife had believed the advertisement and had shared it to her circle of friends about this great opportunity! So she had to contact them all and say it's a scam.

That is the sort of person and reaction that changed their vote because of what they read online.

On Falsebork alone there were estimates that the Russian troll posts, that came from about 750 ID's created for the purpose, were re-shared 350 million times. Re tweets or comments on Russian troll posts on the twit indicator, 677,775 people.

I find it incredible that someone could be adamant that there was no effect when there was such a massive, organized propaganda campaign and in the face of the actual numbers involved.



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:01 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut




Yes.


What do you think should be done about Obama allowing it to happen?



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:03 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Which still PALED in comparison to the anti-Trump lies and propaganda

Which you know is the truth but yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

I find it incredible that someone could be adamant that ‘the Russians’ influenced the election in the face of the BILLIONS of anti-Trump lies and propaganda spread by tens of millions of foreign nationals.

The election was ‘influenced’ against Trump by a massive propaganda campaign
edit on 31 7 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Not only that, who are the allegators?

Is that why Trump was speaking about draining the swamp?



I have to ask...

Why do you think you are relevant to the conversation about American politics anymore here?

You're a partisan hack for the Democratic party, which not in favor anymore here.

Is it just some weird thing you do to get negative attention?

Honestly wondering.




My previous post was a little wordplay upon the misuse of the word "allegated" in the OP, instead of the correct word, "alleged".

I support neither the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party but are merely acting as devils advocate against a highly partisan online community that is increasingly unable or unwilling to consider alternate views and gullibly accepts the constant PR spin which is becoming, in Shakespeare's parlance, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"... an appeal to emotion but without any actual truth or credence.

Any actual debate requires that there be opposing viewpoints and I am here for the debate.

As someone with Asperger's, I am fairly emotionally detached from the argument. So insults don't usually get to me and I am not moved by emotional pleas, but rather by rational, systematic, truthful and credible dialogue.

The self congratulatory circle jerk, so they can feel that tiny dopamine hit with every 'star', 'flag', 'like' or 'retweet' they get, appears to me fairly empty. I am sure some assume that is is what ATS is about.

If someone has no other opinion and is just here to tell everyone how incredibly conforming they are, then they actually contribute almost nothing of substance. Their opinions are a waste of online storage and other people's time. Just another 'follower', following.

I have as much right as any other to be here and to debate. I know I have something to offer that is unique and rational.

But I do get negative attention. So do those people without an opinion or a contribution to the debate but just troll. It seems there are many reasons one would be here other than getting soothing to one's personal inadequacy with valueless and unconsidered, easy affirmations.


Touché

I very rarely agree with anything you say but that was very well said.

There is a definite lack of balance on this site and people like yourself, djn, Coin and Silly while obviously bat shyte crazy and wrong most of the time should be respected and even appreciated or else ATS would be a literal echo chamber and a metaphorical circle jerk.

As a fellow Antipodean (I’m Aussie) i always find it disturbing when nationality is brought into the convo to invalidate our point of view.
Maybe the fact we don’t have a horse in the race so to speak gives us a different point of view that might be worth listening to?

I enjoy debating you and even if I don’t agree with you and think you’re a bit NPCish your comments are always articulate and I can see the intelligence behind the comments even if I can’t see it in the comments themselves


Keep doing what your doing mate


P.s I got your original pun straight away and thought it was pretty funny and I didn’t see any malice in it, if you weren’t a known anti Trumper that would have been quite popular.
I started it


Thank you.

Perhaps we could be "respected adversaries".




posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:06 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Yeah all that Mueller BS that documented no proof only cheap dreck innuendo 🤣

"Oh Goodie Oh Goodie"



Do you have a higher credentialed source?

... or are you assuming Falsebork, TwitIndicatr and FauxNews are more truthful?



posted on Jul, 31 2019 @ 02:08 AM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: chr0naut

Which still PALED in comparison to the anti-Trump lies and propaganda

Which you know is the truth but yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

I find it incredible that someone could be adamant that ‘the Russians’ influenced the election in the face of the BILLIONS of anti-Trump lies and propaganda spread by tens of millions of foreign nationals.

The election was ‘influenced’ against Trump by a massive propaganda campaign


It doesn't matter who put up more propaganda.

Both parties had the right to do it.

If China, Russia, or even Zimbabwe prefers one American presidential candidate over another, they equally have the right to say so online.

You can't curtail free speech just because it could influence an election. (That is exactly the WORST POSSIBLE reason to curtail it.)




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