F-19?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Barnalby

It was so contaminated that they didn't even let the AMARC guys near it for longer than a few minutes until they gutted it. After they removed all the contaminated stuff they let them cut it up.

On an administrative note, I believe it is AMAR"G", not AMAR"C"...

...309 Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration "Group" - AMARG

Correct?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Both are actually correct. You most often see AMARG, but AMARC is often used for the location itself. It's officially been MASDC, 3040th Aircraft Storage Group, AMARC, and AMARG since its formation.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Zaphod58

This jet, the fabled F-19, is like as old as I am if it's real. It's design stage would be predating me even. I'm 38. So it's around my age.

I have two speculative questions for you (and anyone else that want's to chime in):

1) Why would something like this be kept secret for around 35 to 40 years when it's technology is likely not much different than the F-117 Nighthawk ?

2) Even if it were secret for 20+ years, and no one bothered to file a FOIA request to get it declassified, isn't it possible it just sat there in a pile of papers that no one bothered to touch for decades and so hypothetically couldn't they have just stored it there at the graveyard anyways because it's technology was so far obsolete by the early 2000's?

Good to see you again by the way!

I built the Testors model of that plane in 1985. I got the kit when I was in Singapore on the USS Independence.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Zaphod58

1) Why would something like this be kept secret for around 35 to 40 years when it's technology is likely not much different than the F-117 Nighthawk ?

The F-117 could very well have finished it's career behind closed doors, but when it was unveiled to the public, it was already obsolete.

Lockheed's computer-designed faceted stealth technology was pushing the ragged edge of the Jimmy Carter-era computing power that it was designed around, but by the mid-80s it was found to be a technological dead end, as Lockheed seems to have found out the hard way with Senior Prom and Senior Peg. It's not that the F-117 wasn't stealthy, but contoured stealth, as was first demonstrated with the Tacit Blue (or maybe that pre-redesign ATB demonstrator that some folks here believe flew around 1980-1982), was found to be a solution that produced far better aerodynamics while also having a ton of growth potential.

As I said earlier in this thread, it's very, very likely that the companion had a primitive contoured stealth design, that like the Kingfish, the A-12 Oxcart, the D-21 the Boeing Quiet Bird, or the AQM-91 drone, was the product of trial and error rather than something spit out from a computer, and it likely stayed classified at the time of the F-117 unveiling because unlike it's faceted cousin, it was NOT an obsolete design.

From there, inertia is probably what has kept it, along with a likely handful of other now-obsolete demonstrators and operational aircraft that also flew in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, classified to this very day.

originally posted by: Barnalby

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Zaphod58

The F-117 could very well have finished it's career behind closed doors, but when it was unveiled to the public, it was already obsolete.

As I said earlier in this thread, it's very, very likely that the companion had a primitive contoured stealth design, that like the Kingfish, the A-12 Oxcart, the D-21 the Boeing Quiet Bird, or the AQM-91 drone, was the product of trial and error rather than something spit out from a computer, and it likely stayed classified at the time of the F-117 unveiling because unlike it's faceted cousin, it was NOT an obsolete design.

From there, inertia is probably what has kept it, along with a likely handful of other now-obsolete demonstrators and operational aircraft that also flew in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, classified to this very day.

My only thoughts in regards to this this are that you may be correct. Should a need for the use of the F-19 arise we may see it much like the F-117 that was directed to war theatres. Can't see that happening as it may be obsolete by now. I wonder what has surpassed the F-19.

My regards,

bally

Even it were real I'd doubt they would throw a supposedly non existent aircraft out in the bone yard for everyone to see. If it existed and was kept behind closed doors then its more than likely if it were to be retired then that would be behind closed doors too

a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

Nom Nom Nom

a reply to: Masisoar

that looks a lot like a 117

a reply to: kingofyo1

It was. They were testing ways to dispose of them, so they took one and cut it up.

This (obvious fake) pic has been floating around the internet for at least a decade. I was disappointed that it was the subject of this thread. It has been discussed and put to bed a long time ago.

Here's an old ATS thread from 2012 where the photo is discussed: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes photoshop. The image appeared during 2009. The original Google Earth images from 2009 don't have the two 'F-19' aircraft. There was debate on some of the military enthusiast forums during 2009. The original GE footage just shows the normal aircraft at the desert storage base.

Here's the exact spot, on GE. Picture is rotated 90 deg., i.e. the top is east, ect.

32° 9'3.66"N, 110°50'1.20"W

Slide the history slider back to 5/30/2005. Perfect match, less the fake "F-19's".

a reply to: muzzleflash

Yes, possibly but with something as secret as this, that request would fall on deaf ears. Some things remain classified forever.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: kingofyo1

It was. They were testing ways to dispose of them, so they took one and cut it up.

Damn if only I had that amount of money to waste.

Hi, slightly of topic but I ve been trying for years to find a Russian artist's impression of the f19,b2 and the f117 . I think it was in a book by either bill gunston or bill sweetman. Well before any of the three were announced.

a reply to: PokeyJoe

That, or it's radio silence until they pull a Tacit Blue or KH-9 and randomly unveil it unannounced (well, to those who aren't invited to the declassification celebration) at Wright-Pat or Dulles.

I was hoping that the donation of the KH-11/FIA optical telescope assemblies to NASA was the prelude to them donating an early KH-11 to Wright-Pat, but they may not have a spare satellite to donate even if they're ready to declassify the early KH-11s. But I also would love to see them declassify Onyx/Lacrosse or maybe some of the early Vortex/Chalet or Mentor/Orion birds.

I work for a defense contractor and one of our rooms has a bookshelf with a few small models on it. The F19 is one of them that is on the shelf. Probably as a gag...

A couple of thoughts.

Im wondering if the f-19 was ushered into some 3 letter agency as a completely discreet platform and no longer needed a design designation..... Maybe its only known by a codename like spectre, manta or something similar.

Theres too much in print from this era that suggests there were 30 or more in service....... thats a lot of craft to have never knowingly been spotted. If it was ever in service i think it would have been for a very short time or only used for one or two particular operations.

I worry that if it was operational at some point and that information was released, we may never see a full complete version of it as they were probably burnt n buried like the surplus 117s..... who knows.

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

There was a standard designation assigned that I have been told by multiple sources, with very slight variation between them.

There has only been one F-117 destroyed since they were retired. It was cut up as part of a test to determine the best way to dispose of them. One was shipped out last year, and four were scheduled for this year. After retirement most aircraft had their wings removed and were placed into Type 1000 storage at Tonopah. A few have been used as airborne test aircraft and have been flying over the NTTR.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Interesting........ I thought i remember a story/stories regarding workers trying to claim damages after developing health problems after burning a load of the stealth coated craft. I may be getting 2 stories mixed up (it happens often). I knew a few had been kept for certain things but assumed the rest were destroyed by fire in a deep pit grave as they were so toxic.

originally posted by: Catch_a_Fire
Im wondering if the f-19 was ushered into some 3 letter agency as a completely discreet platform and no longer needed a design designation..... Maybe its only known by a codename like spectre, manta or something similar.

Nope. What Zaphod said. To the letter.

Theres too much in print from this era that suggests there were 30 or more in service....... thats a lot of craft to have never knowingly been spotted. If it was ever in service i think it would have been for a very short time or only used for one or two particular operations.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire

They were burning skin pieces in burn pits. Some were from aircraft no longer in use that were part of classified programs, some were from models, etc.