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Roswell, an odd story from the very beginning.

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posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 06:51 PM
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We all know the Roswell story has holes in it from every level like a piece of Swiss cheese.

Here, to me is one of those holes and a big one.
I’m referring to the press release the Roswell military hierarchy sent out to the public about the supposed disk that “landed” on a Farm in Roswell NM in 1947 and started the famous Roswell Alien/UFO craze.

Here is the published message



The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County.

The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. The action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters]


This message supposedly was sent out by 1st Lt. Walter G. Haut under the guidance of Major Jesse Marcel and the base Commander Col. Blanchard. This press release is littered with non-sequiturs. And how anyone there in authority could have allowed this message out is incredible!

In the very first and last sentences, there are words that just don’t belong in any official statement by any Air force organization, at that time, still a part of the US army.

Let’s break down this part first, the first sentence



The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County
.

Either the author of this message is an idiot or this was some kind of coded message sent to God knows who.

First, we know the message is a lie since there’s not one word of a crashed disk.
Strangely, it speaks only about a “landed” disk.

Secondly, what is the reason for the subjective commentary in this phrase…” The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday…”

What in the world would an official statement like this even concern itself with “rumors” of flying disks?

Here’s another incredibly inane statement: “Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County”

Fortunate enough? What the hell does that mean? Fortunate enough?

And here is the last odd statement: “It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters.”[12]

So, headquarters owe Major Jesse Marcel a flying disk, since he only loaned them the disk.

Official US Army communication to the public?

To me, this is not just about semantics but seems to be outlandish words that indicate some provocative coded message to some parties...


It makes one want to read James Carrion's book, The Roswell Deception.




posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

Either the author of this message is an idiot or this was some kind of coded message sent to God knows who.


Most likely the former. It seems few were impressed by his actions.


First, we know the message is a lie since there’s not one word of a crashed disk.
Strangely, it speaks only about a “landed” disk.


Well, if this is the same idiot...


Secondly, what is the reason for the subjective commentary in this phrase…” The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday…”


It IS a bit tabloidy, isn't it?

Well, Kenneth Arnold's sighting on 24th June 1947 was still Big News at the time. Mac Brazel's heap of sticks and tin foil had been gathering dust under a brush since 14th June 1947... until the Arnold story started a Disc craze (nobody regarded this as ET, merely potential enemy spy craft) and a public reward for retrieving one - when Mac's eyes lit up like the morning sun.



Here’s another incredibly inane statement: “Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County”

Fortunate enough? What the hell does that mean? Fortunate enough?


As I said, these discs were considered to be potential spy planes.


And here is the last odd statement: “It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters.”[12]

So, headquarters owe Major Jesse Marcel a flying disk, since he only loaned them the disk.

Official US Army communication to the public?



I refer you back to the idiot we mentioned at the start.



It makes one want to read James Carrion's book, The Roswell Deception.


Steady on now! Let's not go TOO far.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 07:43 PM
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It's also worth noting that the precarious relationship between Legend and Fact is a primary feature of Roswell.

Recalling the classic scene from John Ford's 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance' (1962).

Or in our case: 'The Farmer Who Fooled Sheriff Wilcox' (1947).






edit on 28-7-2019 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 08:30 PM
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Too much water under the bridge now, Marcel it seems, was none too happy with the idea of the object he was pictured showing, was what he encountered in the first place, however, Marcel though did say that what he found were fragments of metal and other stuff with properties unknown to him.

So I do think that it is a given that whatever the material was, it was from something that was damaged in some way.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

The Kenneth Arnold was indeed just two weeks old and what we assume about UFOs then was very different from what we assume now. Then we hardly had any assumptions. The author here gives an excellent scenario of the different perspectives then and now.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?keywords=lynn+picknett+ufo+book&qid=1564367309&s=books&sr=1-1

I recently reread this press release and this time something grabbed me and said…No no…something’s wrong here besides the overt and covert lies. Something’s weird. Of course along with all the other Roswell weirdness this goes right along with it.

This incident at Roswell is pregnant with possibilities and ramification unlike any UFO flap IMO.

There are so many angles and this ridiculous press statement is the beginning of the sinister mystery still going on today.



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 09:45 PM
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Incidentally speaking, Interesting date synchronicities on the three most famous UFO flaps. Roswell at 4th of July, Rendlesham Forest incident at X mas 12/ 25, and Cap Arnolds famous Mt Rainer 9 saucers on 6/24 the birthday of John the Baptist.

Interesting coincidences or synchronicities for us woo-efologists



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

How many highways did they shut down for all of the other Mogul balloons?



posted on Jul, 28 2019 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: Masisoar

I don’t damn Roswell, its an open book to me just like a lot of ufo flaps. There are a lot of witnesses, though some of the evidence is problematic but the evidence that something happened there plenty



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 02:37 AM
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originally posted by: Masisoar
a reply to: Willtell

How many highways did they shut down for all of the other Mogul balloons?

There are so many he-said she-said versions of this tale it's hard to get them straight. Imagine if the military did cordon off the roads. What was said at first was Brazel describing a crashed disc and he did this in hopes of a reward. The military went to the ranch not knowing exactly what it was that crashed, so naturally as a precaution they would block off roads, if even true. Nothing suspicious in that. Also in post war Roswell in 1947, paranoia would have been high with the military because of our development of a nuclear weapon. Some type of spy craft crashing would have been at the top of the list and not an alien spacecraft.

It wasn't a Mogul balloon that crashed. It was from the Mogul program, but not a numbered full Mogul array. It was a test flight launched with balloon(s) and radar targets in between Mogul flights. At least that's my belief after extensive research.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 05:19 AM
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a reply to: Willtell



It makes one want to read James Carrion's book, The Roswell Deception...


I did read it. As you may recall back in the old thread about it The Roswell Deception

The basic premise of the book (with well over 700 contemporary sources linked from the late 1940s) was that Roswell (and a number of other press stories) were all part of a huge deception plan to fool the Soviet Union that the US was testing secret weapons in the Western United States during the late 1940s.

Only a handful of senior men, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JSC), knew the overall plan. Those lower down the chain of command were told on a need to know basis only.

Balloon and other props were released from aircraft to create sightings of strange craft in the skies. Flying disc stories were seeded into the media and reported widely by Western media outlets. The sightings and even crashes reported were all to create the illusion of failed weapons tests. Military and Government press releases also reported top brass travelling to and from specific military locations. All these 'clues' were left to convince Russian intelligence that important people were secretly checking up on their new experimental weaponry.

The US wanted these reports to end up in Moscow and the Soviet intelligence services to join dots and believe that the discs were part of a new secret weapons project. However what none of these people had conceived of, back in 1946 when the project began, was that people would start to believe these things were alien spacecraft coming to Earth. Something that reached a level of almost public paranoia by the early 1950s.

I'll cover the Roswell Press Release below to create a bit of breathing space.
edit on 29/7/2019 by mirageman because: ...



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 05:41 AM
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Here is a brief analysis of the July 8th 1947 - Roswell Press Release in the Roswell Deception.

It was issued by Roswell Army Air Force base on behalf of Col. William Blanchard and announcing that the 509th Bomb Group based at Roswell had recovered a flying disc.

The important thing to note is that Col. Blanchard would need approval and orders from above to issue any such press release. But who authorised this press release?

When the JSC was set up in 1942 the JSC were granted a veto over “any publicity arising within the War and Navy Departments, which may jeopardise the success of operations thereto”. See : kvisit.com...

Carrion, the author of the Roswell Deception, asserts that the Roswell Press Release had to have been approved by the JSC. Any discovery of “a flying disc” would otherwise have been subject to immediate secrecy:


“Joint Security Control was the ultimate arbiter and veto authority for publicly releasing ANY information that could have been of value to the enemy – whether that was secret experimental aircraft, nuclear monitoring balloons, or the crash of an extraterrestrial craft.”


However this story about finding debris near Roswell was fully authorised. A farmer had found it and reported it to the media and authorities. The military now had it. But then the whole thing was rapidly reported as a huge mistake. All to give the impression that something top secret had been recovered.

Roger Ramey pulled out his weather balloon wreckage and got Marcel to sheepishly pose with it for a news report. The illusion of a secret weapon being developed that had ‘failed and crashed’ was created.



The story was made to look like it had been leaked to the media before the military could contain it. The weather balloon story would look like a clean up to Russian intelligence. All to keep a suspected secret weapon project under wraps. Especially as reports said the wreckage was taken to Wright Field. Job done it seemed.

Military brass outside of the influence of the JSC that weren’t directly involved in the Roswell Deception plan began asking questions. Intelligence projects like Sign, Grudge and then Bluebook arose to investigate these reports of ‘flying saucers’. The deception would remain under wraps and still does to this day.

NOTE : I'm not saying this is the final say on what happened. The evidence in the book is circumstantial. But it could well explain the strangely worded Press Release.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 06:14 AM
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“The many rumours regarding the flying disc” I seem to remember reading an article about lots of UFOs being seen in the skies prior to the event and lots of sightings in local newspapers being described as flying discs.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: redchad

The graphic below illustrates how reports were building in late June peak around the time of the Roswell story hitting the news wires and then drop off dramatically again shortly afterwards.


Source (Report on 1947 Bloecher)

What it proves is open to interpretation. I dare say people keep seeing tic-tacs in the sky more frequently these days.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Willtell
Where did this message come from. Please could you supply a contemporary link for this as it seems a "modern" made up statement purporting to be from 1947.
It might be a reporters enhancement of the incident. According to the original report there was a wide debris field and if Brazel took anything home it would have been a small piece. Brazel (because of the remoteness of the crash site) with his job took a couple of days to return to report it, not for any delaying tactics but the time took to get back from his job.
He reported it to the sheriff who reported it to the Army air force. They were took to the site and started a clean up operation and on return they released the statement that they had a flying disc in their possession. Now think for a moment, the bomb group at Roswell were the prime group for delivering atomic weapons and to say that they were mixed up between a weather balloon and an extra terrestrial disc is doing them a great disservice, even Mogul.
They didn't have a disc, they had debris of a disc.
Now the Mogul lies. Some where on the net (I'm to ratty to look it up) are official documentation that there were no aerial experiments at that time and all those before then had all been accounted for. So it couldn't be a Mogul balloon or any other "secret" experiment.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: crayzeed

en.wikipedia.org...



The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters.[12]


About the 5th paragraph, you'll see the press release. It's in all the Roswell books.. it's legit.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: crayzeed



According to the original report there was a wide debris field and if Brazel took anything home it would have been a small piece.


When you say 'original report exactly what do you mean?



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. The action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home.


This is an important piece as well. It must be a tiny disc if a rancher can store it.
A flying saucer would most likely not be able to be picked up so easily.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Thanks much for the input mm…

Regarding this, its absolutely clear to me this PR is bogus as soon I focused on it. So, I know Roswell on that basis alone is so filled with — I don’t know what to even call it…disinformation, just outright lies, misinformation, deception, or all of them, and who knows what else.

I don’t know how many times I read that press release but for some reason yesterday in a book I got from the library about Roswell Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe, a very well written and well researched book by ufologist Karl T. Pflock, published in the 2001, www.amazon.com... I started reading it and it hit me suddenly! I thought, my goodness this makes no sense whatsoever…something is wrong here, very wrong with this press release.

I have to admit I didn’t read Carrion’s book but likely will do that very soon.

edit on 29-7-2019 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: xetex

originally posted by: Willtell
Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. The action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home.


This is an important piece as well. It must be a tiny disc if a rancher can store it.
A flying saucer would most likely not be able to be picked up so easily.


And it turns out this rancher lived in a small shack without electricity, no phone and lived primitively and he stored a flying disk or whatever, I guess in the barn.

Also, it turns out, according to some, he actually found this material in June! Not the weekend of July 4th! Someone told him the government paid 3000 dollars for stuff like this so he wanting to take advantage of that went to town and exposed this flying saucer material.



posted on Jul, 29 2019 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Carrion's book is a hard slog to get through. My own opinion after reading it was that I needed something more to convince me that Kenneth Arnold's sightings, Roswell, Maury Island and a number of other lesser known UFO incidents were all concocted to fool the Soviets into believing that new weapons were being tested across the Western United States.

But all credit to him he did it all for free and the research links in that book are not things you will easily find online.

For example he dug out the original report confirming the offering $3000 reward for anyone recovering a 'saucer'.




And also the news report confirming that Brazel had found the debris in mid June 1947.



It's an invaluable resource for reading the contemporary reports of the times.

edit on 29/7/2019 by mirageman because: ...



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